[BNW] Saga Of Man 2

[UncivilizedGuy]

About ready to start another test run - just wanted to check in and see if you have an update before I actually begin...?

No updates yet but I'm working on it as we speak. I'm currently adding ethnic unit models. Since the game now starts at 20,000 bc it made sense to start the game with ethnic models rather than the African tribe. For this reason I decided to merge the Scout with the Hunter. I'm also creating Armies. Basically I'm merging the infantry units with the archery units. At least for pre-gunpowder units anyway. I'm working my way through the tech tree and I'm not sure when I will have something playable yet.

 

[epicivfreak]

No updates yet but I'm working on it as we speak. I'm currently adding ethnic unit models. Since the game now starts at 20,000 bc it made sense to start the game with ethnic models rather than the African tribe. For this reason I decided to merge the Scout with the Hunter. I'm also creating Armies. Basically I'm merging the infantry units with the archery units. At least for pre-gunpowder units anyway. I'm working my way through the tech tree and I'm not sure when I will have something playable yet.

The earliest evidence we have of settlements, not just buildings, is much, much later than that. So, I'm just wondering what your reasoning is to start at 20,000 BC?

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

The earliest evidence we have of settlements, not just buildings, is much, much later than that. So, I'm just wondering what your reasoning is to start at 20,000 BC?

I know. It's been a dilemma. I considered dropping the Paleolithic as it makes sense to start at the beginning of the Neolithic. 20,000 bc is a bit of a compromise because there is evidence of temporary shelters and semi-nomadic lifestyles nearing the end of the Paleo era. I like what I've already created and I don't want to do away with it completely.

 

[epicivfreak]

Ok, I can understand all that. Like I said, I was just curious what the reasoning was.

 

[Elitech]

Hi there, thank you for all your hard work. Any ETA on when the next release might happen?

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Hi there, thank you for all your hard work. Any ETA on when the next release might happen?

I wish I had an answer. There is still a lot to do. My goal is to actually complete the tech tree and have most of the major civilizations in the game before next release. I may release a partial build so that I can get some feedback. But I can't promise anything. Taking it one step at a time for the moment.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

So I've been experimenting with the idea of armies instead of specialized units. I'm sure there will be some exceptions to this idea especially with modern units. The Sumerian army is in the image and it's at R.E.D. scale. So far I'm liking how this is turning out. The purpose for this is to create a greater sense of scale on the terrain. No more archers shooting two tiles. The unit formation is based on some information I read about ancient Egyptians. Chariots on the wings, skirmishers up front and heavy infantry in the middle. Oh and don't forget the supply train in the back. I will do my best to keep this as historically accurate as possible.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Armies for Inca, Polynesia, Aztecs, Maya, and Iroquois/Shoshone.

Trackers (Scouts): Inca, Polynesia/Indonesia/Siam/India, Iroquois/Shoshone, Maya/Aztec

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Assyrian Army, Assyrian Lancers, Egyptian War Chariot, Assyrian Heavy Chariot

So after some experimenting I decided it's best to keep cavalry units separate from the army units. The army units are a merging of the Spearman, Swordsman, and Archers. Cavalry and Chariots will be superior to army units. Their primary weakness is that they are penalized for attacking cities. I will also be creating a siege army. Siege armies can't melee attack but can attack cities. So yes this is more simplified than the base game. Historically phalanx units were not anti-cavalry units, they were anti-melee units. Armies historically defended against cavalry with cavalry. At least in ancient times anyway. Hopefully this new approach will give a more realistic feel.

I have also been experimenting with an alternative idea to culture groups. This is something I have experimented with a few times over the years but for one reason or another I'm never satisfied. But I can't seem to let it go so I'm giving it another shot. This alternative idea is inspired by Humankind. In Humankind players pick a new culture every era. In one sense this is realistic because no single culture stands the test of time (unless your China). But on the other hand it's a bit jarring to be able to pick any culture from across the world. In my view cultures are heavily influenced by the environment. So in my version cultures can only be chosen when certain criteria have been met.

How it works: Every civilization starts as a tribe instead of as a major civilization. Upon reaching the Ancient era the player will encounter wonders that unlock cultural assets. So for Sumerian cultural assets you need to build the White Temple of Anu wonder. The White Temple requires nearby desert and river, an improved source of wheat and stone, and the Potter's Wheels building. Once the White Temple is constructed a free Victory Stele building appears in every city. This building is the prerequisite for the Sumerian army, and Sumerian wonders and buildings. Sumerian assets can also be accessed if a player conquers a city and builds the Victory Stele of Sargon. So basically any player can unlock Sumerian assets if they are the first to meet the prerequisites for the White Temple or Victory Stele of Sargon. Babylonian and Assyrian assets will also have unlocks. For now there is no limit on how many cultural assets that can be unlocked, at least until I change my mind. This can get messy and I think that's why I have given up on this idea in the past. My hope is that this approach can add some variation to each play through. You never know what you'll have access to until you see the environment. Some unlocks will be more powerful than others. But you will have a chance to have a variety of unique units and buildings as you progress through the game. At least that's the plan!

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Added a second row of archers to the Assyrian Army to make it more impressive; Assyrian Siege Engines; Sumerian Army without the wagons; Sumerian War Wagons

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Carthage Army, Carthage Elephants, Carthage Navy, Carthage Chariots, Carthage Siege Engines, Numidian Cavalry, Carthage Heavy Cavalry

 

[epicivfreak]

I haven't checked in for a while, but it looks like you've been busy. I had a similar idea with the armies, I was less focused on making them unique to the Civ/Culture Group though. I was thinking of starting out with an Army unit (which is equipped with stone armaments) immediately, then have that upgradable to an Army with bronze, iron, steel, black powder, gunpowder, etc. Basically, other than a few specialized units like Scouts, Siege units & Settlers, for example, I only wanted 3 primary military units: Army (land,) Fleet (sea,) Squadron (air.)

Regarding your culture groups, that does sound pretty good, however, the first thing that came to mind for me was - what if a player never meets requirements to unlock any assets? They'll just forever be a Tribe?

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

I haven't checked in for a while, but it looks like you've been busy. I had a similar idea with the armies, I was less focused on making them unique to the Civ/Culture Group though. I was thinking of starting out with an Army unit (which is equipped with stone armaments) immediately, then have that upgradable to an Army with bronze, iron, steel, black powder, gunpowder, etc. Basically, other than a few specialized units like Scouts, Siege units & Settlers, for example, I only wanted 3 primary military units: Army (land,) Fleet (sea,) Squadron (air.)

Regarding your culture groups, that does sound pretty good, however, the first thing that came to mind for me was - what if a player never meets requirements to unlock any assets? They'll just forever be a Tribe?

So I set the idea for the armies aside for the moment. I was beginning to feel a bit overwhelmed and took a break. I decided to take a more balanced approach to this and focus on the core modpack. I'm pretty happy with what I have so far. Going forward I think I will take a modular approach to this. That way I can release components little by little to prevent being overwhelmed.

The core modpack is built around WHoward's DLL. I may be repeating myself from earlier posts but I'll give some details anyway. I went through the entire Steam and Civfanatics catalog of mods and narrowed down everything that I personally like. Then I tested for compatibility until I ended up with something I'm satisfied with. It's actually a short list of mods if you don't count Howard's components. Unfortunately I've been unsuccessful in getting CivIV Diplomacy to cooperate. Other than that I'm pretty happy.

The core component only includes mods by others. I have already assembled the Buildings pack as a separate component. The core component can be used as a stand alone modpack. It includes mostly quality of life mods. I also decided to incorporate Health and Plague and Emigration. After I clean these two components up I'll post them.

Future planned components:
• Tech tree overhaul. So I already started on this one. I went back to the drawing board and decided to construct a more historically accurate tech tree that minimizes bee lines. I scrapped what I had done in earlier builds.
• Neolithic era. So I will be using most of the buildings and units I created in earlier builds.

Gotta go. I'll finish this up later

 

[epicivfreak]

So I set the idea for the armies aside for the moment. I was beginning to feel a bit overwhelmed and took a break. I decided to take a more balanced approach to this and focus on the core modpack. I'm pretty happy with what I have so far. Going forward I think I will take a modular approach to this. That way I can release components little by little to prevent being overwhelmed.

That makes sense. I'd definitely like to see more regular releases of SoM2. If going modular makes that happen & helps you feel more balanced, that's all good man.

 

[epicivfreak]

Please add these mods in:
Returning Fog
Power Mod
Coasts & Rivers Yield Gold Again
Food for flatlands

& then every tile yields nothing until you build something on it. You need to work for it, in other words. City tiles would obviously yield things beyond this, preferably +1 of every possibility, IMO.
Although, If Food for flatlands can be added, why not production for highlands also?

 

[epicivfreak]

I’ve played a few games now, with various Civs, to get enough notes worth posting. I always used the following settings:
Iconian Huge map, Iconian Returning Fog, Iconian Tile Conquest, Iconian Caravans Build Roads, Marathon speed, Perfect World (updated) , Coasts & Rivers Yield Gold Again, Culturally Linked Start Locations, Custom Advanced Setup Screen, Food For Flatland Cities, & Power Resource.

Also, these are months old comments...

64. Mesolithic II costs less than the I or the II...which makes no sense to me.
65. If you haven’t, definitely reduce the Scout’s move to one & don’t ignore terrain costs.
66. Building Workers should probably require a clear plain, grassland, or flood plain tile (whichever tiles they can actually improve). Allowing the build of Workers feels pointless in situations where they can’t actually do anything useful. Maybe a later worker-type unit forgoes that requirement.
67. I was thinking about Hunters, & I don’t know if this is even possible in Civ5, but if they could have multiple upgrade paths, that would be the best result – they can upgrade to Scouts, Warriors, Archers, unique units, etc…
68. Dwellings description in the city queue says it replaces “Shelter” but that should be “Shelters”
69. Shaman says it requires a Burial Ground, but it doesn’t.
70. Dwellings are able to be built after they’re upgraded to Shelters.
71. Once again, animal units absolutely need to go. By the time modern humans had shown up, 300,000 years ago, hominids had already been the dominant predator for millions of years. Insinuating that animals kill tens of thousands of people per year is just insane. And that’s exactly what animal units killing human unit insinuates.

 

[epicivfreak]

Coasts & Rivers Yield Gold Again
Food for flatlands

I forgot to add that there should be the same for lakes (as Coast/Rivers yield gold) & similarly to food for flatlands, there should be production for highlands (hills.)