Uighur_Caesar's Design Discussion Thread

[Natan35]

Sounds nice, but... You don't really get that much great musicians to use that theming bonus.

 

[Timewalker102]

Concert of Europe is OP. It's not very difficult to have ~300 production in capitals, and that's a lot going into golden ages / tourism :tourism, especially with the Foreign Minister. (Imagine being friends with Venice with this UA though). Although this can be easily fixed by making the portion small enough.

I like the Konzerthaus, I think it's better than last version of Austria. Although maybe Great Musician points from tourism might be a bit OP, you can just tone down the amount that gets transferred, similar to the UA.

 

[Natan35]

What?! I never had 300 production in my capital. The most I had was 200 or so.

 

[DarthStarkiller]

I think he means it's not hard to build something that costs 300 production in your capital.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Ok so I decided to change up the Austria design again and got this:

UA: Concert of Europe: Civs with whom you have diplomatic relations with have a portion of their Capital's highest yield added to your Foreign Minister progress*. During Golden Ages, it is added to Great Musician progress instead and City State Influence does not decay.

UGP: Foreign Minister: Replaces Great Dignitary (Great Merchant without CID). In addition to the regular Trade Mission, it can also perform a Diplomatic Mission (basically a renamed Concert Tour). When expended in City State territory, you gain a small Influence boost with all other known City States. When expended in the territory of another civ, gain Golden Age points based on how much Tourism you exert on them. Can enter rival territory without Open Borders.

UB: Konzerthaus: Replaces Opera House. 2 Music slots that provide a same civ, same era theming bonus. Great Works of Music in this city generate an additional +1 Tourism for every era since they were made.

5% for DOF, Defensive Pacts, and having a Diplomat in their Capital.
2.5% for having an Embassy.

How does it seem compared to the old one? More balanced or not?

 

[TranquilSilence]

I quite like the new design, especially the idea of the unique concert tour - though the lack of the unique improvement for the UGP is a shame, I can imagine finding a model for it may have been difficult.

Have you any thought as to what E&D support you'd give it?

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I've been wanting to do some modern dictators lately so I've thought about Fulgencio Batista and Gaddafi. Batista would probably be a CID only civ and have some kind of benefits more crime, but I don't have anything concrete yet. Urdnot_Scott gave me some ideas for Gaddafi and I currently have this:

Republic of Libya

Leader: Gaddafi

UA: (I need a name): Strategic resources provide +1 Gold on adjacent desert tiles and give a sum of Gold upon being discovered/acquired. Can spend Gold to create Barbarian Encampments in civs you are at war with or denouncing.

UU: Sahelian Legion: Replaces Great War Infantry of Infantry (not sure yet). Ignores fortified defense when starting its turn on a desert tile. Has a massive +25% Combat Bonus when in City State territory.

UB: People's Congress: Comes at Civil Service. Replaces Magistrate's Court with CID, idk with vanilla. ???

So it's pretty rough but some ideas are there. The UA references how Gaddafi used oil money to fund rebel groups around the world, from the IRA to the African National Congress. The UU is based on the Islamic Legion, but I changed the name in case the player doesn't create Islam. It was a mercenary unit created by Gaddafi to fight in the Sahel so it has bonuses in desert, as well as City States so you can expand your sphere of influence or defend it from dirty imperialists. The People's Congress seems like a good idea for the UB but I can't really think of anything special for it.

Suggestions for anything regarding the design are extremely welcome.

 

[Natan35]

How about...

UB: People's committee
Replaces courthouse. People's committee may be built in every city, costing no maintenance. It also provides +1 happiness and +1 culture from production yielding buildings, increasing to +2 after adopting an ideology.

UU: Sahelian Legion
Replaces infantry. However, the Sahelian Legion may be bought with faith and exerts religious pressure equal to its level, as if it were a city. Gains 20% more HP from all sources when within range of a city following your religion, and gains a 20% combat bonus within territory that doesn't follow it.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Omg thank you Natan, your design just gave me an awesome idea! How does this sound:

UA: Third International Theory: Strategic Resources provide Culture upon being improved and +1 Local Happiness when worked.

UU: Sahel Legion: Replaces Infantry. May be purchased with Faith without the required belief. Heals twice as fast in the territory of civs following your ideology. +20% Combat Strength in the territory of civs that don't.

UB: People's Committee: Replaces the Courthouse, but comes later at Civil Service. Is maintenance free and can be built in all cities. Temporarily provides Tourism equal to Local Happiness upon adopting a Social Policy.

So it's still missing half of the UA but I think this is a really cool direction. I can't think of any civs that use local happiness so this is an awesome thing to focus on. Anyway, I've decided to move the focus around to Gaddafi's foreign policy ideology. He was a big Pan-Arabist, Pan-Africanist, Non-Aligned leader that thought his "Third International Theory" should be used by the whole Third World. Using local happiness to inspire other civs to follow your ideology seems fitting considering how Gaddafi considered the Jamahiriya to be a pure democracy. I'll probably have to relegate funding rebels to E&D since it might be too similar to Fidel anyway.

Any feedback on the new direction? Ideas for the second half of the UA would be really appreciated too. I think something militaristic would be appropriate but nothing comes to my mind right now.

 

[Natan35]

I think you misinterpreted my idea... I meant gain more HP from all sources, including pillaging, medic promotion, etc. And... I really don't think that temporarily gaining tourism is enough to make players spend production on this building when there's o much else to build.

UA: Emperor of Africa
Gold gifts to city states following your religion grant double influence as well as a free infantry unit. Strategic resources grant culture when claimed, and will also grant +1 gold for each civ you trade them to(max. +3).

UU: Sahelian Legion
Replacing the infantry, the Sahelian legion is a slightly weaker unit(65 ) that becomes cheaper with each foreign city following your religion. Additionally, it may exerts pressure for your religion as if it was a city, and gains +3 XP whenever a city converts to it. Gains 20% more HP from all sources.

UB: People's Committee
Replaces courthouse. May be built in every city. Grants +1 happiness for each different type of strategic resource worked by the city, and +1 culture for each type after adopting an ideology. Those bonuses are doubled if the city yields more than 100 production.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Oh ok I guess I misread that. I'm not sure if that's programmable either way so I might have to go with what I put. And good, the UB probably needs another bonus. Also, I don't really want to put religion in this civ because my other two middle eastern civs are based on religion so I want this one to be a bit more different. However, I do like that bonus from trading strategic resources. How about being able to trade strategic resources to City States for influence? It could either be an instant boost, but you won't get the resource back, or an influence per turn boost for a certain period of time, 25 turns for example, and you get the resources back at the end like a regular deal. Maybe something in this direction could work:

UA: Third International Theory: Strategic Resources provide Culture upon being improved and can be traded to City States for Influence.

UU: Sahel Legion: Replaces Infantry. Heals twice as fast when in the territory of civs following your ideology. +20% Combat Strength in the territory of civs that don't.

UB: People's Committee: Replaces Courthouse, but comes later at Civil Service. Can be built in all cities and cost no maintenance. Strategic Resources worked by this city yield +1 Local Happiness, and an additional +1 Culture after you've adopted an ideology. Temporarily provides Tourism equal to Local Happiness upon adopting a Social Policy.

Once again, I'm still missing half of the UA but maybe this could be more interesting.

 

[Natan35]

The way I see it, Gaddafi used resources to make money, and than used money to promote his various interests in Africa. So a UA that focuses on international affairs should give the player money from startegic resources, and than incourge him to use it in order to promote is affairs. Alternativley, you could reward the player for controlling the resources, and for trading them rather than consuming them. Though if you want to call the UA "third international theory, I think it should relate more to... Well, the Regime itself. I also didn't quite get the tourism thing in the UB...

So I have two options:

UA: Third International Theory
Gain culture equal to half of the local happiness, which also contributes towards production of any buildings that may be effected by ideological tenets. +1 tourism from each social policy after adopting an ideology.

UB: People's Supermarket
Replaces stock exchange. Rather than having Merchant Specialist slots, it grants +2 gold on oil and generates +3 happiness as long as you earn gold. However, it is unlocked at electronics.

Option 2:

UA: The King who hated Empires
Strategic resources grant +1 gold for each civilization receiving them from you (max. +3), and grant culture upon being improved. Gold gifts grant +5% more influence for each social policy you adopt (max. 60%).

UB: People's Committee
Replaces courthouse. Costing no maintenance, the People's committee may be built everywhere, granting +1 culture for each different strategic resource in the city's territory, and happiness equal to that amount after adopting an ideology. The People's Committee generates +1 culture for each friendly civ following your ideology.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Thanks so much Natan! I think this is one that I'm finally content with:

UA: Third International Theory: Strategic Resources provide Culture when improved and +1 Local Happiness when worked. Gold gifts provide +5% Influence for every 2 policies selected.

UU: Sahel Legion: Replaces Infantry. +15% Combat Bonus outside your borders. Every Sahel Legion adjacent to a City State you can bully reduces the Influence of their ally by .5 a turn. No Influence loss when in City State borders.

UB: People's Market/Popular Market: Replaces Market. Provides +1 Gold on Strategic Resources for every civ you are trading them to (max +3). Converts Local Happiness in this city to Culture. After selecting an Ideology, it is also converted to Production.

I think I'll keep the name "Third International Theory" until I can find one that's a bit more appropriate for his foreign policy approach. Speaking of names, what sounds better for the UB, People's Market or Popular Market? I don't like including supermarket in the name and I read an article or two where they were called Popular Markets so either of those should work. The only thing I'm not sure of now is the UU since that could be kind of strong.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I like more how Popular Market sounds. Also, for the UU, could it look like Gaddafi's Female Guard?

I know it's not really the Sahelian Legion, but I think it's one of the most iconic things that have come from that place and period, so it'd make them much more recognizable.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I don't think there's any female modern soldier models for civ 5. Even if there are for civ 4, the chances of getting a unit converted through the unit request thread are quite slim so I'd rather just ask someone to reskin an existing civ 5 infantry unit since that's a lot more likely to get done. The Amazonian Guard could probably be included in an event though. I'm currently thinking of having a decision for proclaiming a Jamahiriya and another one for the Great Man Made River. Also, I just have a qualm about using the Amazonian Guard for the Sahelian Legion's art since they're unrelated.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

So I came up with something for WWI America and wanted to see what you guys think:

United States of America

Leader: Woodrow Wilson

UA: Fourteen Points: Sending Trade Routes to City States provide +1 Culture for every Citizen they have, and an additional Delegate if you are allied. Gain an extra Trade Route for every completed Social Policy tree.

UU: Expeditionary Force: Replaces Great War Infantry. +2 Movement and increased Strength while embarked. +20% Combat Strength when in the territory of your allies. If this ally is a City State, gain extra Influence with them for killing nearby enemies.

UB: Victory Garden: Requires freshwater like the Garden it replaces, but can be built in all cities while at war. Non-freshwater cities will lose their Victory Garden once peace has been made. Instead of a boost to Great Person generation, the Victory Garden provides +15% Food, and +1% Production towards Military Units for every worked Farm. +2 Food in allied cities receiving a Trade Route.

For clarification, the UB provides +15% Food, not +15% per farm, unlike the Military Production bonus.

 

[Kerfuffle]

I think +1 Culture from every Citizen in City States when sending trade routes to them needs a nerf. A City Sate with population of 10 could net you something like 30 culture when sending three routes to it, and if I'm reading into the description of the Victory Garden's ability correctly, you can help boost their population even more because of the +2 Food that they'd be getting from every route. You could restrict it so that the ability only triggers once per City State, or increase the required amount of citizens to earn +1 culture.

Is the +2 Movement for the Expeditionary Force applied only when they're embarked? If so you may want to word it as "Whilst embarked, has +2 Movement and increased Strength" for clarity. Also I think another mod civ was going to be using a UU that gains extra influence from defeating units in/near City State territory. I believe it was the Peacekeeping Corps(?) in CL's/Our World's South Africa? Not sure if that was part of their finalized design though so you may want to check.

I like the Victory Garden but maybe not so much the part about the gardens disappearing from non-freshwater Cities during peace. Maybe they can stay but have their bonuses nerfed when not at war? Though I can see their regular bonus in freshwater cities being powerful anyways so maybe having them disappear elsewhere would be ok

Otherwise, I think it seems like a solid growth/war turtle civ with diplo potential

 

[TranquilSilence]

I agree with Kerfuffle's comments mostly, Wilson looks really cool and interesting - though the idea of losing the UB when not at war feels a tad penalising. It also seems to encourage the player to stay at war given how powerful extra food is, which sort of runs contrary to the whole 'Fourteen Points' idea of the civ.

I might be alone in this, but I feel like the use of an 'Expeditionary Force' UU in WW1 is more evocative of the BEF, especially in the early conflict. It could just be my anglocentric education speaking though

Edit; I see that you have an icon for a Pueblo civ in your other thread - what design were you going with for them?

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Fair points about the UA. +1 for every 2 or 3 should be more balanced. And yeah, the +2 Movement is only when embarked, I should have made that more clear. I guess the UB could only provide it's military production bonus during war? Idk I kind of want a war bonus for it but maybe it's a bit under necessary. I also didn't want to use Expeditionary Force since I think JFD was going to use it, but there wasn't a better formal name. If JFD does use it I'll use Doughboy for the UU name since that was their informal name. The Pueblo design was made for the mechanics design challenge and can be found here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14124511&postcount=673. I'll probably change it a bit such as not making the UI's mountain bonus change every turn.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I finally came up with a Fulgencio Batista design that might work, but it's kind of crazy so I'd like to have some opinions.

Republic of Cuba

Leader: Fulgencio Batista

UA: Latin Las Vegas: WLTKDs in your Capital convert 10% of its Gold to Tourism. The Capital gains the Gold yields of plantations worked by your other cities.

UU: Mafioso: Replaces Great Merchant but cannot build Manufactories. Instead, the Mafioso temporarily reduces the cost of purchasing buildings by 25% and any building bought during this period provides +2 Tourism (and all crime produces positive yields with CID). May still be expended for Trade Missions, and upon doing so provides you with a copy of every luxury inside the City State's borders.

UB: Distillery: Replaces Windmill but is much cheaper, maintenance free, no terrain restrictions, no regular bonuses, and unlocked at Machinery. +2 Gold and +1 Culture on Sugar and +1 Gold on Jungles. Has a Merchant slot instead of an Engineer one.