UK Guardsman

As snazzy as this unit looks (and it is nice work)... it just screams "Dress Uniform" to me, not "Combat Uniform". Like the nice looking black Waffen SS uniforms, I just didn't see this as going into the game since it looks too dressy for the combat field. I'm sticking with the "Highlander" unit for the British Rifle unit (and if I didn't like it, I'd go with the also-cool "early 1800s English infantry" unit). At least the Highlander unit looks like it belongs in combat, not gaurding some Queen's castle.

Good work, but I like your other stuff better.
 
Great work from you guys . Now spoilt for choice as to which one to use in fact. General Matt .... any thoughts on doing the Colonial Infantry. These should be the British UU in my opinion because they represent the Golden Age of Empire. Not politically correct now, if it ever was.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IWuaSww3JnA&mode=related&search=
 
What we could REALLY use is 1870s British Riflemen in uniform with the white pith helmet and redcoats... the zenith of the British Empire... you know... Zulu-war era guys!

zulu.jpg
 
Great work from you guys . Now spoilt for choice as to which one to use in fact. General Matt .... any thoughts on doing the Colonial Infantry. These should be the British UU in my opinion because they represent the Golden Age of Empire. Not politically correct now, if it ever was.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IWuaSww3JnA&mode=related&search=

I would love to, but if Mr Danrell gets to it first I will not mind, I am sure he would do a very good job at it. ;) But that isn't a no, just a probably.

What we could REALLY use is 1870s British Riflemen in uniform with the white pith helmet and redcoats... the zenith of the British Empire... you know... Zulu-war era guys!

zulu.jpg

Same here. I actually started one, but the helmet stalled me for a bit. Those were the "Real" British riflemen.
This just all the more makes me think there should be a unit in between Riflemen and Musketmen. And maybe another tech to spread it out a little..
 
Most of the "British Riflemen" I've seen have all really been late-era musket guys... the BtS "Redcoat" with the tri-point hat of Revolutionary War era really did not fit-in at all with the English "Rifleman" look (and I PROMPTLY moved that unit back to the English Musketman look... it had no place in the Rifle age). I'm currently using Matt's "Highlander" as my British Rifleman, but I'd prefer the 1870s "Zulu-look" for my English Rifle unit.

Even the Napoleon-war era British unis we've seen aren't riflemen either... you really have to get post-1860s to get into the "true" British Army Rifle era... which takes us (once again) to the white pith-helmet redcoat Brits like you see in Zulu.

I've used the Franco-Prussian war units (1870s once again) for my German Rifleman (you know, the pointy helmet... see below).

14th%20group.jpg


We just now need an English counterpart.

To be truthfull... any uniform prior to the 1870s really belongs as a musket unit... Rifles weren't widespread use in any army till the 1870s.
 
The only real rifle regiments in the British Army during the Napoleonic era were the 5/60th (Royal Americans) 95th Rifles, and the Kings German Legion. The 95th and KGL wore green uniforms. I'm not sure about the 5/60th.
 
The only real rifle regiments in the British Army during the Napoleonic era were the 5/60th (Royal Americans) 95th Rifles, and the Kings German Legion. The 95th and KGL wore green uniforms. I'm not sure about the 5/60th.

Exactly my point... Rifles weren't "common" amongst the average soldier until the 1870s for most national armies.
 
Most of the "British Riflemen" I've seen have all really been late-era musket guys... the BtS "Redcoat" with the tri-point hat of Revolutionary War era really did not fit-in at all with the English "Rifleman" look (and I PROMPTLY moved that unit back to the English Musketman look... it had no place in the Rifle age). I'm currently using Matt's "Highlander" as my British Rifleman, but I'd prefer the 1870s "Zulu-look" for my English Rifle unit.

Even the Napoleon-war era British unis we've seen aren't riflemen either... you really have to get post-1860s to get into the "true" British Army Rifle era... which takes us (once again) to the white pith-helmet redcoat Brits like you see in Zulu.

I've used the Franco-Prussian war units (1870s once again) for my German Rifleman (you know, the pointy helmet... see below).

14th%20group.jpg


We just now need an English counterpart.

To be truthfull... any uniform prior to the 1870s really belongs as a musket unit... Rifles weren't widespread use in any army till the 1870s.

The only real rifle regiments in the British Army during the Napoleonic era were the 5/60th (Royal Americans) 95th Rifles, and the Kings German Legion. The 95th and KGL wore green uniforms. I'm not sure about the 5/60th.

Exactly my point... Rifles weren't "common" amongst the average soldier until the 1870s for most national armies.

I find this all very true, and agree wholeheartedly. ;)
I would really like to get your guys thoughts on the stats if we added a musket infantry in between riflemen, but this probably wouldn't be the place..
 
Well the "Musket" had a very long reign on the battlefield... ranging from the matchlocks of the 15th and 16th Centuries, through the reign of the Flintlock (which zenithed with the English "Brown Bess" varients) and finally the ultimate firing system, the percussion musket which showed up in the 1800s.

I'm not sure how much you want to differentiate between early musket armies vs late musket armies... I'm sure an 1860s musket army could defeat a 1600s musket Army, but a musket is a musket as far as most Civ players think, eh?

However, in Civ terms I always consider a "Rifleman" to properly be a late 1800s army (1870s and beyond)... roughly a Franco-Prussian to Boer War era army and I think the uniforms of Civ units should match that period.
 
I'm not sure how much you want to differentiate between early musket armies vs late musket armies... I'm sure an 1860s musket army could defeat a 1600s musket Army, but a musket is a musket as far as most Civ players think, eh?

However, in Civ terms I always consider a "Rifleman" to properly be a late 1800s army (1870s and beyond)... roughly a Franco-Prussian to Boer War era army and I think the uniforms of Civ units should match that period.

That is pretty much my thinking. The uniforms of the riflemen though seem to be a cross of the musket and rifle..

I just hate seeing the Musketmen or the Rifleman representing the Musket Infantry. One has it's name wrong, the other looks wrong. But to most it is satisfactory I guess.

For differentiating this is how I actually tried, but didn't get enough time to play much.

Musketmen are the same.
Musket Infantry come with Replaceable parts (After which they could be used as the sole or at least majority of the infantry).
12 Pwr, 1 move, %25 vs cavalry, whatever cost.
Rifleman Comes with Rifling and some other tech that would be a major part in the breechloader concept.
16 Pwr, 1 move, %25 vs Cavalry, %10 vs gunpowder units (So on par with a combat 4 Musket Infantry)
Grenadier, Chemistry, 10 pwr, %50 vs Musket Infantry, Upgrades to Rifleman

The thing is, the Matchlock musket was about as similar to a Brown Bess as a Brown Bess to a Rifle. (They were much heavier) Plus Matchlocks were far from the only weapon used in a formation, I would wager that pikemen were used as much if not more. The Rifle is important today, but the rifleman in game went from (As you say) 1870-1900 approximately. Where as the Brown Bess type was used from 1730's-1870's, 140-30 years. And it wasn't like it was all peace time either (Seven Years War, the War of the Austrian Succession, the Napoleonic Wars and not to mention the American Revolution).
I just tend to think that even though it is Beyond the sword, they forgot the musket. At least they added Curriassers though..
You just look at the variation in the classical age, axeman, spearman, swordsman, archer, catapult, and in the Early Industrial you got the Cavalry, Riflemen and Cannon.. I mean if they are willing to differentiate between a longbow and a crossbow, or even a spear and a pike, you think they would give difference to a late and early musket.

And By the way, I did start the helmet for the Colonial guy, looks quite good if I say so myself..
 
Hmm, were did my post go? Musn't of actually posted..

First off I think we should quit hijacking danrell's thread and go talk somewhere else, for his sake and those trying to read through this. ;P
Second, thanks for the link! Oh for some money, I know what I would get into, re-enacting from the Seven Years war to even WWII.. that would be my hobby, and probably more healthy than sitting at a computer all day..
 
I would love to, but if Mr Danrell gets to it first I will not mind, I am sure he would do a very good job at it. ;) But that isn't a no, just a probably.



Same here. I actually started one, but the helmet stalled me for a bit. Those were the "Real" British riflemen.
This just all the more makes me think there should be a unit in between Riflemen and Musketmen. And maybe another tech to spread it out a little..

GeneralMatt, I very like your units :)
my Guardsman just for fun :)
 
The above pick is actually cavalry... here's infantry with pack:

24th.jpg

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thinred/collection/24th.htm

Thanks! I looked at the site, very cool.


GeneralMatt, I very like your units :)
My Guardsman just for fun :)

Well I like it even if it was just for fun. ;) Thanks for the compliment also.
Most of my stuff is just for fun to.

Anyways, I think I finished the guy (Including a Boer War one, thought I would use the hat twice. :P
I will upload them in a minute..
 
This is excellent. My Grandfather was a Coldstreme Guard so I particularly like this unit.
 
Just a small thought for you guys. If you did a scenario based on the British Empire/Queen Victoria's reign, you would not only get the Pith Helmeted Redcoated rifleman to use, you would also be able to have the Sudan War, Boer War and Indian Mutiny variations of the same unit. Have the units so they are built/recruited for a specific region. Alternatively have a Redcoat from Zululand sent up to the Sudan whose Jacket changes colour from red to sand coloured.
 
Just a small thought for you guys. If you did a scenario based on the British Empire/Queen Victoria's reign, you would not only get the Pith Helmeted Redcoated rifleman to use, you would also be able to have the Sudan War, Boer War and Indian Mutiny variations of the same unit. Have the units so they are built/recruited for a specific region. Alternatively have a Redcoat from Zululand sent up to the Sudan whose Jacket changes colour from red to sand coloured.
Oh yeah, that's all just super-easy to code! :crazyeye:
 
Well the "Musket" had a very long reign on the battlefield... ranging from the matchlocks of the 15th and 16th Centuries, through the reign of the Flintlock (which zenithed with the English "Brown Bess" varients) and finally the ultimate firing system, the percussion musket which showed up in the 1800s.

I'm not sure how much you want to differentiate between early musket armies vs late musket armies... I'm sure an 1860s musket army could defeat a 1600s musket Army, but a musket is a musket as far as most Civ players think, eh?
A big difference between the matchlock and the flintlock was weight, size and reload time. The matchlocks tended to be quite heavy, and many used the two-prong stand to balance their gun on. It also took many more motions (about 30) to reload a matchlock, whereas the flintlock took half as long and weighed half as much. The flintlock could also be used in damper conditions, since the pan was protected by the striking surface. The most logical separation would be between the arquebus and musket or the matchlock and flintlock. Both of these, however, would likely require the addition of a new tech or two.
 
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