UN unveils plan to release untapped wealth and solve the world's problems at a stoke

[Urederra]

What you have not paid for is teh cost of cleaning up the pollutants that you will inject into the atmosphere while creating and using that gallon of oil. This is because we assume either (a) there is no cost to clean up (nature does it for free) (b) There is no need to clean up.

(b) is obviously incorrect (unless you also belong to that niche community who think that anthropogenic climate change is not occurring).

There is evidence that shows that the Earth's temperature regularly fluctuates, and has been doing so for million of years. But for some reason this is now our fault, and only hope for salvation is to submit to some sort of global authority.

 

[betazed]

There is evidence that shows that the Earth's temperature regularly fluctuates, and has been doing so for million of years. But for some reason this is now our fault, <snip>

Apparently, you belong to the afore-mentioned niche group. I think we can safely say that this is pretty much the end of our discussion on global warming.

 

[Urederra]

Earth's temperature regularly fluctuates, that is a scientific fact. Has been doing so for millions of years. Without man's help.

 

[Taliesin]

Earth's temperature regularly fluctuates, that is a scientific fact. Has been doing so for millions of years. Without man's help.

What a profound observation! I'm sure the world's scientists have never thought of that!

On topic, this sounds pretty neat-- I'm all for helping poor people-- though I'm not in a position to comment on the economic soundness of the ideas. I think the best feature of it is that global economic governance would have the capacity to correct problems where "everybody else is doing it, so we have to do it to be competitive" is an excuse for abusive treatment-- shipping, strip mining, waste dumping, etc. The downside is that it would create a more concentrated power structure, which could abuse the poor even more effectively if the wrong people gained influence over it.

Oh, and I'm sure Americans would still be allowed to play with their little flags if it makes them feel important. Although people who read Left Behind would be pretty pissed off by the whole thing, I guess.

 

[zulu9812]

There is evidence that shows that the Earth's temperature regularly fluctuates, and has been doing so for million of years. But for some reason this is now our fault, and only hope for salvation is to submit to some sort of global authority.

I'm fed up hearing this 'argument'. Human activity is causing increase global warming, beyond any normal cycle. This is what all objective scientists are agreed upon. Incidentally, I've just watched a report on Newsnight (which you might be able to see at http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsnight ) about a new study which concludes that it's all a lot worse than we thought: global warming is happening faster than we thought, the edges of the ice caps have already started to melt, the effects are going to be much worse than previously anticipated, sea levels could rise by 16-21 feet, and - to put the cherry on top - we might already be too late to stop it.

 

[Urederra]

You can believe what you please, as long as you don't force me to believe what you do and you don't force me to take measures that I don't want to take based on your beliefs.

If you want to stop using fuels and start living in a cave, it is fine with me, but please, don't include me in your plans. Oh... and don't hurt the bats.

Man, It looks like we are talking about religion.

Here is a linky regarding the issue. I just want to point out a little fact.

Moscow shivered through its fourth day of a cold snap, with temperatures dropping to minus 24 degrees overnight &#8211; the lowest recorded temperature on Jan. 19 since 1927, said Tatyana Pozdnyakova, a Moscow weather official.

Now, you can swich to climate change instead of global warming.

 

[Xen]

lets do it!

 

[zulu9812]

You can believe what you please, as long as you don't force me to believe what you do and you don't force me to take measures that I don't want to take based on your beliefs.

This is not a belief. This is cold, hard fact. You are delusional.

 

[Aramazd]

This is not a belief. This is cold, hard fact. You are delusional.

No it is not. It was much warmer in the early middle ages then it was now.
link

 

[Urederra]

This is not a belief. This is cold, hard fact. You are delusional.

It is so cold that more than 50 people died last week during a cold wave a in Moscow.

And what is going to happen with the weather in 20 or 30 years is a belief, not a fact.

A fact is that global weather has never been constant. Not in million years. But now, either the heat waves or the cold waves we suffer are our own fault. It is kinda new catholicism, we were born with an original sin and all calamities we suffer is entirely because we are sinners. Oh, my! I forgot my cilice at home.

But, don't worry, the guys at the UN have the solution to everything, just let them control the world and we'll see that everything is gonna be superb with them ruling the world.

 

[SomethingWitty]

There is evidence that shows that the Earth's temperature regularly fluctuates, and has been doing so for million of years.

Obviously. However, the Earth should be in a cooling phase, and is instead warming. The weight of scientific evidences says it is being caused by man.

 

[Urederra]

Obviously. However, the Earth should be in a cooling phase, and is instead warming. The weight of scientific evidences says it is being caused by man.

The cooling phase thing is supposed to be happening during the last several thousands of years, yet the Earth has suffered from warming periods hotter than this one. The Holocene and the medieval optima are just two examples. The whole theory of man caused global warming itself is difficult to prove, and the theories people have come up with to explain this small fluctuation are entirely speculative.

 

[Aramazd]

Obviously. However, the Earth should be in a cooling phase, and is instead warming. The weight of scientific evidences says it is being caused by man.

The Earth just came out of cooling phase about 100 years ago. So it would make sense that we are going through a warming phase, then we will enter another cooling phase. I have yet to see any evidence that it is caused by man. The medival climate optima was warmer than this and last I checked humans didn't have huge factories, burn coal, or drive cars back then.

 

[newfangle]

I love it when people discuss climate change by citing specific instances in an isolated geographical region.

 

[Norlamand]

Obviously. However, the Earth should be in a cooling phase, and is instead warming. The weight of scientific evidences says it is being caused by man.

Those are both false, or at the very least poorly supported statements. There is highly correlative evidence that the trends in solar activity are more associated with the temperature of the Earth than man's activities. It does so happen that the recent upswing in solar activity has begun around the time of the start of the Industrial Revolution. The following link gives a short, but clear, review of the concepts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum

The graphs themselves speak volumes. There is a direct correlation with the Maunder Minimum and the "Little Ice Age" as well as with the recent increase in solar activity and "Global Warming".

The take home message is that if the furnace is turned up it is going to get hotter here, whether we did it or not.

 

[Aramazd]

I love it when people discuss climate change by citing specific instances in an isolated geographical region.

The Medival Climate optimum and the Little Ice age weren't isolated to any region. I suggest you go back and look at my link.

 

[El_Machinae]

Okay, so global warming doesn't bother some people.

I'd still prefer that people pay for the pollution they cause, instead of off-loading the burder onto the weak.

 

[Xen]

I'm a pretty firm beliver that regardless of weather or not people are causing global warming, we cant be helping the situation any via our current standards, and so they should be changed anyway, to annoy all the prickos who dont like trees.

 

[Aramazd]

Okay, so global warming doesn't bother some people.

I'd still prefer that people pay for the pollution they cause, instead of off-loading the burder onto the weak.

I would agree with that because even though I don't believe that pollution effects global warming, it does affect air quality and water quality, and causes acid rain. However, the fines shouldn't be excessive and the company should have the choice of either paying fines or cleaning up the pollution itself.

 

[blackheart]

I'm a pretty firm beliver that regardless of weather or not people are causing global warming, we cant be helping the situation any via our current standards, and so they should be changed anyway, to annoy all the prickos who dont like trees.

Doing something to piss off people is always a good idea.