Unbelievable battles

[GinandTonic]

The seige of malta. Three biplanes hold off the Italian air force, famously called Faith, Hope, and Charity. Later a reinforced but still underwelming defence holds out against almost 12 thousand sorties in a little over a month.

When it comes to crunch time the SS Ohio (crewed by Brits since the yanks are still out of it) is the centre-piece of operation pedestal, the resupply of the island. The carrier HMS Eagle is sunk along with a couple of cruisers and a destroyer, but the carriers have flown their planes ahead of them to the island and despite seven torpedo and bomb hits the Ohio, broken lashed between two destroyers and towed by a destroyer and a minesweeper, limps into port with the fuel to maintain the air defence.

Abserd victory. After being written off by the brass as indefencible the thee biplanes did such a good job they altered the strategic landscape of WW2. HMS Eagle was lost but 85% of the crew survived, and frankly she was ugly as sin. Really, I mean dam!.

 

[onejayhawk]

The actual battle of San Jacinto lasted less than twenty minutes, and was one of the most significant battles in the history of the Western Hemisphere. For a highly biased account, http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batsanjacinto.htm

By any standard, the Texas Army under Houston was being ridden hard by a larger, more experienced Mexican army under the Mexican King, Santa Ana. In spite of the famous stand at the Alamo, Houston had been hounded all across SE Texas. However, Houston had received reinforcements in the form of fresh recruits and a pair of field cannon. He chose a wooded area along the Brazos River, near present day Houston, to counterattack.

Prior to the battle, he had a spy destroy the bridge both armies had recently crossed. Telling his men that there was no retreat, for either army, he hunkered in the woods by the river. The Mexicans, who had the larger, and in most ways, better army formed a camp nearby, erecting a barracade between the armies. It would not be sufficient protection. At 3:30 in the afternoon, many were napping in the traditional siesta. Houston ordered the new pair of cannons to fire on the barracade, which they did, and the entire army came screaming out of the woods.

Surprise could not have been more total. As noted, many of themen were literally asleep. Confusion reigned as the Texans swarmed over the barracade, and rushed into the camp. Dozens were bayoneted still on the ground. Others retreated in a general rout. In short order, they found their retreat cut by the destroyed bridge, leading to the surrender of the second in command General, and over 400 troops, in a battle involving less than 2200 troops on both sides combined. As a final insult, the King tried to hide as a common soldier, but was betrayed by his subject's salutes.

The battle is possibly the most onesided in history. The Mexican losses were King Santa Ana taken prisoner, 630 killed, 208 wounded, and 730 taken prisoner. The Texans lost nine dead or mortally wonded and 30 wounded. After the battle, the country of Mexico was forced to ransom Santa Ana, who, in turn, was forced to recognize Texas as an independant nation.

J

 

[Steph]

The actual battle of San Jacinto lasted less than twenty minutes, and was one of the most significant battles in the history of the Western Hemisphere. For a highly biased account, http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batsanjacinto.htm

How is it one of the most significant battle?

 

[Digvijay]

One of the most unbelievable battle was fought in 1971 between India and Pakistan on the western front at Laungewala.

It is a story of raw guts, grit and dogged determination of a handful of troops of the now famous 23 Punjab battalion of Indian army, which not only successfully checked the enemy's armour and infantry based attack, but also managed to causer severe attrition on enemy tanks, man power and equipment. Although the Indian formation deployed in the Jaisalmer sector of Rajasthan did not expect any enemy attack, 'A' Company of 23 Punjab, comprising just 100 odd combatants and 2 RCL guns, under the command of the dynamic Major Kuldip Singh Chandpuri, proved to be more than a match for the Pakistani assaulting formation comprising two infantry battalions alongwith a regiment plus a squadron of armour totaling 59 tanks. So heavy were the odds in Pakistan's favour in this battle that the ratio between the attacker and the Indian defenders worked out to one Indian soldier to 26.4 Pakistani soldiers, considering the modest comparison of one tank to ten soldiers; 1600 men of the two Pakistani battalions and 250 men from various support and logistic sub units.

So surprised was the enemy at this unexpected reaction of the Laungewala company that, after receiving a severe mauling, it had no other option but to withdraw back to Pakistan.

Quite a few heads of Pakistani brass rolled after this loss.

-Digvijay

 

[Zibong]

The actual battle of San Jacinto lasted less than twenty minutes, and was one of the most significant battles in the history of the Western Hemisphere. For a highly biased account, http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batsanjacinto.htm

How is it one of the most significant battle?

Well, one way to look at it is that there really aren't that many significant battles in the Western Hemisphere. Seriously, how many truly important battles can you think of in the Western Hemisphere? Cajamarca, Tenoctitlan, Quebec, Trenton, Saratoga, Yorktown, Antietam, Gettysburg, Sherman's March to the Sea... and that's it. For most other battles, it would be debatable of whether it's of greater or lesser importance than San Jacinto.

As for its effects? It was always assumed that should Texas ever become independent, the Texans would push for annexation into the US. Once that was done, the question would arise of whether Texas would be a free or slave state. This would lead to the Compromise of 1850, which would end up becoming one of the key causes of the American Civil War.

So yeah, the Civil War is just one MORE thing we can all blame Texas for.


--Zibong

 

[onejayhawk]

How is it one of the most significant battle?

First, consider the death of battles fought in the Western Hemisphere. 90% of all famous battles were fought in Europe, Africa or Asia. All are in the Eastern Hemisphere.

The result of the Battle of San Jacinto reduced Mexico from a growing power, to an afterthought. It ceded an area twice the size of France to the US, albeit indirectly, while removing it permanently from the Mexican sphere of influence. This had an immediate impact on the westward movement of the American people. It had an immediate and profound impact on US foreign policy, by removing a troublesome neighbor, and replacing it with a friendly one. The political impact in the events leading to the American Civil War are difficult to assess, but clearly significant, with Texas eventually entering the war as a Confederate state.

The long term economic impact has been enormous, since Texas is now the second largest in the nation by population, with an annual economic output in excess of the nation of Mexico. It is also the first or second richest state in the US in terms of oil, cattle and cotton.

J

 

[Thorgalaeg]

The result of the Battle of San Jacinto reduced Mexico from a growing power, to an afterthought. It ceded an area twice the size of France to the US

So Texas is twice the area of France now?

 

[onejayhawk]

So Texas is twice the area of France now?

No. Roughly equal, though somewhat larger. About half of the Texas Territory became parts of other states: Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado and New Mexico, and Wyoming. In the picture below, I am including the entire yellow area. Twice as large as France, is a bit of an exaggeration, since only the hashed area was actively disputed, and half of that area is not in current day Texas. That was inconsistent on my part. However, I include the "undisputed" region, since, if Santa Ana had crushed the Texan army, he would have had no effective obstacle to taking over the entire region. Also note that the major battles--Alamo, Goliad, San Jacinto--were all in the "undisputed" territory.

J

 

[onejayhawk]

Well, one way to look at it is that there really aren't that many significant battles in the Western Hemisphere. Seriously, how many truly important battles can you think of in the Western Hemisphere? Cajamarca, Tenoctitlan, Quebec, Trenton, Saratoga, Yorktown, Antietam, Gettysburg, Sherman's March to the Sea... and that's it. For most other battles, it would be debatable of whether it's of greater or lesser importance than San Jacinto.

As for its effects? It was always assumed that should Texas ever become independent, the Texans would push for annexation into the US. Once that was done, the question would arise of whether Texas would be a free or slave state. This would lead to the Compromise of 1850, which would end up becoming one of the key causes of the American Civil War.

So yeah, the Civil War is just one MORE thing we can all blame Texas for.


--Zibong

I have to take issue with the last point. The compromise of 1850 did a great deal to delay the war, possibly as much as a decade. This probably had a major impact on the severity of the carnage, since a truly significant military innovation occurred in taht decade: the introduction of the the Mineé bullet, which made rifled guns field effective. Much paper and ink have gone into the discussions on this point.

However, the war was likely inevitable by 1850. The pressures that boiled over had no source in Texas. The fact that an additional, significant population and industrial base was available to the Confererates, may have also had an impact. In any event, the border situation with Mexico had been a major concern, that literally evaporated overnight. Consider, for comparison, current day Israel if Syria would suddenly become Jewish, ie not just sympathetic, but also joined by national and ideological ties.

J

 

[onejayhawk]

Some of you will remember Richard III, an historian that uused to post here frequently. His take, with permission.

San Jacinto is definitely one of my favorite battles. Why? It's classic color, total storyline stuff, a textbook example of what boldness and cool thinking can achieve even with limited resources; if it happened in a Hollywood movie, it'd never be believed...

The last stand nature of the battle, a Texan force that's half the size of just one of the armies in pursuit turning and - with casual but brilliant planning - attacking at just the right moment...

The Mexicans, caught in the fork of two rivers, which under normal circumstances would have been a protective barrier, but instead became a lethal obstacle in their line of retreat...

Sam Houston burning the bridge over the Bayou so his troops knew they had to fight there...

The Texans, advancing across the field to a fife and drum, with the buggers cheekily playing a frickin' bawdy song to set the pace...

And then Houston's army catching the Mexican bastards during their seista - almost as if God wanted them to die in stereotype, the hardworking yanquis smashing their pursuers while they woke up, dazed and sleepy; thanks to Santa Ana's failure to properly picket his position, an otherwise feared and respected army is reduced to an embarrassment, wiped out while it's half awake...

And all in all, thanks to timing, motivation and luck, a total rout; a Texan Agincourt. In less than twenty minutes, and the entire Mexican army is completely destroyed in one of the most clear-cut decisive battles in history, fought with fewer than 2,500 men on a hot southern day.

Memorable to me.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Seriously, how many truly important battles can you think of in the Western Hemisphere? Cajamarca, Tenoctitlan, Quebec, Trenton, Saratoga, Yorktown, Antietam, Gettysburg, Sherman's March to the Sea... and that's it.

I would add to that the First Battle of Tuyuti and the Battle of Angamos.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

The Siege of Malta. When the Hospitallers fought off a greatly superior (numerically speaking) Ottoman force. Although in a later siege, Suleiman the Magnificent (iirc) captured the island.

Pierre d' Aubusson (sorry about the spelling, my connection is ungodly slow atm).

Zama
Cannae
Kursk

 

[ParkCungHee]

I would add to that the First Battle of Tuyuti and the Battle of Angamos.

Don't forget Pearl Harbor, and the battle of the Atlantic.

 

[sydhe]

The Siege of Malta. When the Hospitallers fought off a greatly superior (numerically speaking) Ottoman force. Although in a later siege, Suleiman the Magnificent (iirc) captured the island.

Pierre d' Aubusson (sorry about the spelling, my connection is ungodly slow atm).

Zama
Cannae
Kursk

The Ottomans never captured Malta; in fact that's why the siege was so important. (IMO more important than Lepanto.) You may be thinking of Rhodes, where the Knights fought off an epic Ottoman siege, then lost a later epic siege to Suleiman. Suleiman let them go, and they wound up in Malta, where they defeated Suleiman' army in the decisive siege, called "The Great Siege of Malta," or "Oh no, Not Those Guys Again."

 

[RickFGS]

Moral of the story? Don't mess with Russia.

This recalls me of the West Point Academy - War Principles - since number 10th is - "Never invade Russia"

 

[MadScotsMan]

Howbout the reason why the Mexicans celebrate Cinco de Myo(spelling?) Something like fifty French Foreigh Legionares held off 2000 mexicans until the ran out of ammo, fixed bayonets and charged. Whoa.....

 

[carmen510]

Battle of Bunker Hill or Battle of New Orleans.

Bunker Hill- Bloodiest battle in history within 3 hours. British: 226 dead, 828 wounded. American: 140 dead, 271 wounded, 30 captured (20 died)

New Orleans- American losses: 21 men. British losses: Over 2,000 men, 1 general dead, one dying, one disabled.

 

[1889]

Howbout the reason why the Mexicans celebrate Cinco de Myo(spelling?) Something like fifty French Foreigh Legionares held off 2000 mexicans until the ran out of ammo, fixed bayonets and charged. Whoa.....

Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of the battle of Pueblo I think. Anyway it was a Mexican victory over the French. I don't remember the details but it didn't sound real impressive, for them it was good enough to just win. In response France sends 30,000 reinforcements along with a few thousand Legionaries the next year. The engagement you describe occurred then at the battle of Cameroon. Which, despite being a defeat, is the Foreign Legion's holy day.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Bunker Hill- Bloodiest battle in history within 3 hours. British: 226 dead, 828 wounded. American: 140 dead, 271 wounded, 30 captured (20 died)

That is no where close to the bloodiest battle in history in three hours. In Half the time, the battle of pearl harbor left 2467 dead, 1178 wounded and 1 captured, and along with 217 Aircraft, Five Battleships, One Minelayer, three destroyers and 5 midget submarines destroyed (Americans and Japanese Together).

 

[Steph]

Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of the battle of Pueblo I think. Anyway it was a Mexican victory over the French. I don't remember the details but it didn't sound real impressive, for them it was good enough to just win. In response France sends 30,000 reinforcements along with a few thousand Legionaries the next year. The engagement you describe occurred then at the battle of Cameroon. Which, despite being a defeat, is the Foreign Legion's holy day.

It is Camerone. Cameroon is a country in Africa...
It has already been described earlier, at least in the last stand thread.