Understanding Power: An open discussion of immortal strategy

[Murky]

I don't know if that is going to prepare you for a real game on immortal, unless you've never used Quecha or some other kind of rushing before.

I guess that depends on how you define, "a real game on immortal." Technically, all a game needs to be considered a real game on immortal is using the difficulty level of immortal.

The Quechua rush strategy might not make for a real challenging game but it still provides you a way to win at any difficulty level up to Deity.

Just about any successful strategy to win on immortal consistantely is going to involve some sort of a early rush, be it axes, Quechuas or Praetorians.

 

[luniz]

I guess that depends on how you define, "a real game on immortal." Technically, all a game needs to be considered a real game on immortal is using the difficulty level of immortal.

The Quechua rush strategy might not make for a real challenging game but it still provides you a way to win at any difficulty level up to Deity.

Just about any successful strategy to win on immortal consistantely is going to involve some sort of a early rush, be it axes, Quechuas or Praetorians.

I was thinking map size...for some reason I don't think of dual as a real game, but that's jmo. Something about having only one enemy..

 

[lilnev]

I don't like duel, or even tiny, myself. I do think small Pangaea is a good way to break into immortal. Good tech trading opportunities, good expansion-by-the-sword opportunities, and no distant continent that's going to tech away from you. And if you're going to get crushed, you'll know it fairly quickly and can restart.

peace,
lilnev

 

[Murky]

I don't like duel, or even tiny, myself. I do think small Pangaea is a good way to break into immortal. Good tech trading opportunities, good expansion-by-the-sword opportunities, and no distant continent that's going to tech away from you. And if you're going to get crushed, you'll know it fairly quickly and can restart.

peace,
lilnev

You could also do lakes, great plains or fractal. It seems the higher in difficulty you go the more emphasis is put on early warmongering. I don't see how you would win on a small pangaea if you don't have metal early on.

 

[Mutineer]

It is posible if you have some commerce rich ties near by.
Go Feodalism Oracle slingshot and take mettal with Longbow.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Right now I'm in the middle of an immortal game, Romans, and need help (normal speed):

- Start with gold, bronze, corn, awesome capital.
- picked up bronze working in a tribal hut. Felt invincible (about 3760BC)
- bee-lined to alphabet with gold mine and palace (8+9=17 commerce baby)
- Expanded to 4 cities, got iron working (about 1500BC)
- no iron or horse anywhere near
- Cyrus declares war on me (about 1100BC)
- Ghandi declares war on me despite a +2 modifier with no red (about 100BC)
- Mansa Musa (!!!!) declares war on me (about 500AD) with MACEMAN

Don't know, just felt like I had to cry.

 

[acidsatyr]

why dont you post a save so we can have a look at it seems interesting

 

[Murky]

Right now I'm in the middle of an immortal game, Romans, and need help (normal speed):

- Start with gold, bronze, corn, awesome capital.
- picked up bronze working in a tribal hut. Felt invincible (about 3760BC)
- bee-lined to alphabet with gold mine and palace (8+9=17 commerce baby)
- Expanded to 4 cities, got iron working (about 1500BC)
- no iron or horse anywhere near
- Cyrus declares war on me (about 1100BC)
- Ghandi declares war on me despite a +2 modifier with no red (about 100BC)
- Mansa Musa (!!!!) declares war on me (about 500AD) with MACEMAN

Don't know, just felt like I had to cry.

Romans without iron is teh suck. You might have been ok if you had pop-rushed a buch of axes and taken out your weakest neighbor for iron.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Well if you want the save (vanilla, v1.61):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/102640/sylvanllewelyn.Civ4SavedGame

So it wasn't Ghandi and Mansa Musa, but it was Cyrus plus two peacemongers that decided to attack my lands. Also, this map has lots of health resources and few metals or hapiness resources (SO useful for expansive leaders...)

Perhaps an actual immortal game would help everyone focus their "understanding power" discussion more.

 

[podraza]

Well if you want the save (vanilla, v1.61):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/102640/sylvanllewelyn.Civ4SavedGame

So it wasn't Ghandi and Mansa Musa, but it was Cyrus plus two peacemongers that decided to attack my lands. Also, this map has lots of health resources and few metals or hapiness resources (SO useful for expansive leaders...)

Perhaps an actual immortal game would help everyone focus their "understanding power" discussion more.

indeed! Somebody fire one up. 123 not it.

 

[Jorunkun]

Perhaps an actual immortal game would help everyone focus their "understanding power" discussion more.

Agree it's high time someone tried their hand at an Aelf-style discussion-cum-demogame on immortal. Have even toyed with the idea of running one, except I'm kinda daunted by all the logistics of providing screenies, structuring the discussion etc.

Any volunteers?

 

[cabert]

Agree it's high time someone tried their hand at an Aelf-style discussion-cum-demogame on immortal. Have even toyed with the idea of running one, except I'm kinda daunted by all the logistics of providing screenies, structuring the discussion etc.

Don't be lazy! go for it!

 

[aelf]

I want to begin on Immortal but the upcoming patch is making the game harder! So, bumping down one level, the next post-patch Challenge might have to be on Emperor again.

 

[luniz]

-Dont "wait" for new military technologies - keep building units (dont neglect musketman, crossbowmen etc..).

I don't get this, what good do musketmen and the like do you?

 

[cabert]

I don't get this, what good do musketmen and the like do you?

they raise your power, they can attack, they can defend
You've never conquered a city with a musket?
Remember that they're better for defense than a mace, better for offense than a longbow.
+ they can be upgraded.

If you want a solid defense you need enough units. Not necessarily top of the shelf ones.
If you have a musket and a longbow defending a city, at a time where rifling is the top tech, you can upgrade both, draft one other and whip a 4th = 4 good units to defend.
And if you're not under attack, you just leave the musket and the bow...

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Aelf: the purpose between the emperor masters and an immortal demonstration is that with the latter, you're trying to use the leader's traits and win in an interesting way, while maintaining a reasonably challanging AI. The immortal demonstration is only there to win by whatever means possible, and specifically, to show people how it's done, as I feel there's a large gap between emperor and immortal. Either way, emperor tactics definitely do not work on immortal. My classification is probably

settler/warlord/chieftien
noble/prince
monarch/emperor
immortal
deity (or, "the gods don't like you")

Oh, and did anyone try my saved game? Does the link work?

 

[acidsatyr]

I am playing immortal game now, i will post first part as soon as im done, pre-civil service period. Youll be able to give suggestions ideas, comments, on how to proceed, hopefully we can all learn something new.
So its not quite Aelf style, more like mini tutorial...for that first part, after that, i'll play more like 20 -30 turns at the time.
as you'll see, immortal is not all that different from emperor, major exception being very rapid early Ai research and very easy to fall behind if not carefull (which means no city spamming at all).

 

[Landmonitor]

This looks like a great thread. I've been thinking of moving up to Emperor, and these ideas might make that transition easier too.

 

[Melkongla]

I'm enjoying this thread... here are some of my experiences playing Immortal to contribute to the discussion...

I'm only successful on about 10% of starts. Some examples of situations which I can't seem to beat:

a) Starting alone on an island (archipelago) and can't make contact with suitable trading partners by galley (for example, being next to Japan is no use because they are too closed). The other AIs grow far too fast and by the time you meet them they are way ahead.

b) Whenever Mansa Musa is in the game he always seems to win at this level, unless I start close enough to him to go to war directly and early.

c) I find a shortage of food particularly hard to overcome. If my two first cities are short on food, and I can't quickly capture some nearby AI cities with good food, I find I can't grow fast enough to have a competitive GNP by the mid-game.

My $0.02 worth is if you can be competitive with the AI on GNP and Production by mid-game, most victory types are achievable. This usually means having enough land area to generate the output, which means either a lucky start on a good island or an early conquest. I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the AI tends to be very unfocused after mid-game which makes it beatable as long as you are not too far behind.

 

[Jet]

I am playing immortal game now, i will post first part...

Sounds good, thanks. If possible I think it would be helpful for us to see the beginning of the game in detail, because breakfast is the most important meal of the day.