UNGY6 The health nuts

[Rusten]

Got it, but I won't play just yet.

Dotmapping is welcome. I will probably put up some suggestions myself -- but not tonight. Make sure to include in which order you want to settle, we don't want to lose all that great land to Mansa Musa.

 

[Dirk1302]

Not going to dotmap it, i'd settle the 2 gold spot but i'm not really certain where. Next priority is settling the whole band in between , something like cow/silk, rice marble. Later on we settle the already blocked off cities in the west and maybe some more in the east.

Probably a lot of cities early (maybe 8+) and never a worry because we're settling gold and floodplains.The only risk is MM cutting us of really so we have to keep up the settler building. 1 archer/settler is enough btw, MM won't attack us.

If this all works out (likely) there'll be no challenge left. There hardly are any forests on the proposed tiles.

 

[ungy]

BTW as I mentioned briefly Mansa has another contact--late.
There's a good chance that it's a WB contact, which likely means we have an easy layout diplomatically.
I don't think we could have another AI to the E without getting contact by now.

Yes I agree with blocking as best we can--we can wait on the workers.

 

[Dirk1302]

No it seems to end up in tundra and sea on the east. Maybe there are other civs south of MM but i'd have expected contact in that case. Might be alone with MM on a very big island. Almost perfect.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

I'm quite comfortable with immortal, I'm not at all comfortable with the game speed, but, with abit of advice from the team, should be ok.

if you're still searchin' for someone to fill the last slot.

 

[Rusten]

^ Welcome to the team. (about time you "unlurk" yourself)

 

[Dirk1302]

Welcome Snow.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

thank you

couple of questions:

- overlapping workers - I normally use pairs or groups of 3 to get things done in under an eternity; I assume it's a bad idea on normal, right?
- stop and bombard? or straight suicide with siege(generally speaking, exceptions are exceptions, obviously); same, stop and heal after taking 1-2 cities(1st gg mil. instructor for cr2 or mash)?
- last - general rule - give in on begging from ais we're interested in maintaining good relations(I normally don't, as, given how many requests you get during a marathon game... I could as well donate all techs)?

 

[Rusten]

I played 17 or so turns and the position is overwhelming. I can go ahead and start one up tonight if you agree. One thing is that the start is great, but it's just that the variant hardly exists when everything is flood plains.

We're completely safe regarding diplomacy as Brennus and MM are on each others case (founded different religions).

And we've successfully blocked off the river region with no immediate barbarian threat. You can see the 3rd settler which is about to settle where the archer is.

I vote yes to reload--this is a very easy map.

- overlapping workers - I normally use pairs or groups of 3 to get things done in under an eternity; I assume it's a bad idea on normal, right?
- stop and bombard? or straight suicide with siege(generally speaking, exceptions are exceptions, obviously); same, stop and heal after taking 1-2 cities(1st gg mil. instructor for cr2 or mash)?
- last - general rule - give in on begging from ais we're interested in maintaining good relations(I normally don't, as, given how many requests you get during a marathon game... I could as well donate all techs)?

1: Yes, you usually want to avoid grouping workers unless it's an improvement you want up right away (for instance jungle banana after calendar).
2: Varies -- chances are this will be discussed pre-set.
3: Give in to civs you don't want attacking you (unless it's something very special).

 

[Dirk1302]

Reload, even with the variant it beats most other immortal starts. Brennus and MM will be fighting the whole game, they hate each other anyway since they have relation modifier that are far apart, will get worse with different religions.

 

[Rusten]

Rolled a new start with the same settings:

The variant means we need to settle on that river (or move west) but tbh I might have anyway. It looks like we're losing out on a resource 2S though. I'm thinking settling 2E is the way to go.

I send the scout east as there was no better place to go and settling 2E looks better now. I can wait until tomorrow just in case anyone disagrees. I'm thinking growing to size 2 while teching fishing and then start on a work boat (the corn doesn't have fresh water). Another point for settling 2E is that it's the only way to irrigate the corn (barring any forest fires).

The start could prove very difficult (not much land).

Our capital is good for early specialists and later on moai statues are an option if we want to work tiles.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

2e has my vote too; those hills have to be mined asap to prevent forest spreading over them too(there are already only a few improvable tiles).

 

[Dirk1302]

2E seems best. Apart from the forests the capital is also badly situated for blocking other civs. If there are other civs reasonably nearby we may have to play very well on this map.

 

[mystyfly]

Thanks for rerolling rusten.

The start looks ok but will be far from easy I imagine. I am also for settling 2E. There is probabely another resource 2S of the scout.

Worker first while teching agri > fishing?

 

[Rusten]

I think both of those hills have a resource otherwise they'd be forested too. A starting position is suppose to have 4 resources IIRC and even if there is one 2S of the original spot we're lacking the other two. For that reason I don't think it's urgent to mine them.

Worker first is also good considering we start with mining.

After sleeping on it I'll go as far and say that it's a really horsehockey start unless we find a triple gems+fish/corn city nearby -- but rather a challenge than that other map.

 

[silverbullet]

Why don't you want to try to block the peninsula with our settler? We will lose a few turns, but we might find a better capital.
Since the settler needs to move 2 steps anyway, we can move the scout south and see if it seem promising. So if we move the settler 1SE we have the option of gong 1NE (to settle 2e) or go further south if the scout find something nice.

 

[Rusten]

While going south is very interesting you forget that we get to move 2E in one turn (via corn). Going 1SE first means we lose a turn if we decide to settle 2E.

 

[Dirk1302]

Going south is certainly an option but it's risky, if we really pursue this option we might lose more than one turn. 2E spot is reasonable. I agree that there are probably resources on the hills but why not mine them soon? These resources are either copper/iron which have to be mined anyway, if it's something else we'd like to mine there too.

 

[Rusten]

I too want to mine those hills early, I simply meant that there's not a big risk of them being covered in forests. I've played 18 turns and think I'll hand it off for discussion and the next player.

I settle 2e and it turns out the plains tile was cows. At least this saves us the trouble of early AH.

I start up a worker and research agriculture -> fishing -> tbd

We meet up with a Portugese scout to the south on turn 7.

Turn 9 reveals that we're his only contact so far, However, there's a good chance we'll find someone to the west here.

Find a Portugese wb headed west on turn 16. If there are civs there we will probably find out by following Joao's EP.

Here's the map overview:

There's a cluster of seafood to the far south so settling in that direction makes sense. We also have stone, but if we get the Pyramids we'll miss out on the HR bonus with Joao. It could still be a good idea taking the variant into consideration, but it would mean no tech trading unless we find someone else.

How do we feel about chopping jungle? While it should be thought of as rainforest it does cause unhealthiness so I'm not sure what to think. We should at the very least allow plantation (but I think that was covered already).

Another wonder to consider is the GLH. We do have some production with those hills so it's doable even without chopping but it'll slow us down big-time early. It'll cost the same as the Pyramids (more if you add the lighthouse).

Roster:
Ungy
Rusten--just played
Silverbullet--UP
Mystyfly
Dirk
SnowlyWhite

 

[SnowlyWhite]

philo... se... lotsa food... mids... on paper. Plus, few tiles = many specialists

Screw joao, he's useless till friendly plus he'll settle in such a manner that offsetting the close border penalty will be a hard... That being said, I'd wait till finishing archery to see if we get a change in his ep. Otherwise, I'm not a big fan of glh. I'm not a big fan of the mids either - I'm not a big fan of any wonder tbh with this variant since we lose the boosted chops with assorted resource(I'm still a big fan of UoS/SM, but only with ap religion, otherwise, without spiritual, it's a waste of time - and there's nothing else interesting with stone - I supposed we don't want to be 1st to engineering for notre dame Maths with this variant is pretty uninteresting too).

Also, regarding glh, if we met his wb on 16, means he's unexpectedly coastal, so we have a direct competitor for glh, one with also reasonable starting techs for pursuing it(and we just have 0 advantages over the ais, since we can't chop - we can only beeline a wonder hopefully better).

If we're alone with him and he doesn't found hindu(for some reason, I saw him founding this one pretty often for an ai without mysticism) we'll probably be without religion at least till hopefully tao.

Bottom line after all this rambling, I'd vote - glh, if change in ep, otherwise, definitely no, mids with a quarter of a heart(that stone city seems like a junk too, but it's not very well scouted) and rex with three quarters of a heart

Frankly, the only wonder I'd give a leg for in semi isolation is GW, but I don't see how it'd be possible without chops...