Unique Ability Elimination Thread

[Udey1]

I just don't see a massive advantage in Ingenuity. It's good, very solid, great for science, but as the price of GP goes up, the bonus dies off hard. I can't help but to compare it to Nobel Prize, which gives more GP but its a choice of which, and gives another way to use those GP.

The massive advantage is early science. (EARLY)

late doesn't matter if early went well.

 

[abandag]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 16
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 30
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 24
Dutch East India Company: 25
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 28
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 15
Nobel Prize: 22
River Warlord: 18

-3 to Sun Never Sets: I don't play with espionage, so the extra spy is a non-factor for me. I probably should play with spies to get used to the mechanic, but I play on easier levels, so for me it's basically just stationing them in my own cities to block tech-stealing, and that's not much fun, so I always turn espionage off. +2 movement for naval units is cool, but too situational compared to many of the other UAs left. Extra naval movement is useless if you're fighting a landlocked civ.

+1 to Siberian Riches: I love production, and this UA gives plenty of it. And I can use that extra production however I want, unlike with Glory of Rome, which can only be used to build buildings that already exist in the capital faster.

 

[sukritact]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 16
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 30
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 24
Dutch East India Company: 25
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 16
Nobel Prize: 22
River Warlord: 18

The Glory of Rome: Won't deny it's useful, but the management it requires to take advantage of it at all is in my opinion, annoying.

Father Governs Children: More powerful City States, need I say more?

 

[Crafty Bison]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 16
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 30
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 24
Dutch East India Company: 25
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 17
Nobel Prize: 22
River Warlord: 15

FGC: A good cultural vc UA. They're few and far between. As OCC's are heavily influenced by cultural CS's, this can be properly huage, and wrongly gets no cred as a religious civ too. The UA works well to provide the only slow mounted UU I actually like.

RW: PoC, SCoG, LC have all gone, and this is still here? The amphibious and embarked bonuses are both properly budget, and while the extra gold is decent, I'd much rather have the gold from Spain/Byzantium with tithe or similar. I'd even pick LC as not that far off just from the GM alone! As for synergy with the Mand cav, why wouldn't I prefer a conquistador to get me cerro potosi, which is everything and more than the Mand cav.

 

[sukritact]

RW: PoC, SCoG, LC have all gone, and this is still here? The amphibious and embarked bonuses are both properly budget, and while the extra gold is decent, I'd much rather have the gold from Spain/Byzantium with tithe or similar. I'd even pick LC as not that far off just from the MG alone! As for synergy with the Mand cav, why wouldn't I prefer a conquistador to get me cerro potosi, which is everything and more than the Mand cav.

The heavy usage of more obscure abbreviations is giving me a headache, I had to check to OP to make sense of that.

But now that you mention it, it is rather strange this particular one is still here. I personally overlooked it.

 

[woodshadows]

The heavy usage of more obscure abbreviations is giving me a headache, I had to check to OP to make sense of that.

But now that you mention it, it is rather strange this particular one is still here. I personally overlooked it.

it's been inadvertently omitted from the list several times, i think most people have overlooked it as a result. i think songhai's UA works out because if you go honour you're getting loads of gold + culture + city state influence. This sets you up for a nice early game. As spain you'll be more invested in searching far and wide, less time to sit around attacking barbs/barb camps, missing out on the honour culture/city state quest influence. Really though I think the amphibious bonus is the best part of Songhai, it opens up a lot of tactical advantages to the human player, being able to attack across a river without a penalty can be extremely powerful.

 

[SnowKomodo]

The heavy usage of more obscure abbreviations is giving me a headache, I had to check to OP to make sense of that.

I'm with you on that. I have logged in an unhealthy amount of hours but I still can't figure out a single one of the abbreviations without looking it up.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Sorry guys. I did expand later with Spain and Byzantium but with hindsight should probably have spent the time to write them in full.

 

[Crafty Bison]

it's been inadvertently omitted from the list several times, i think most people have overlooked it as a result. i think songhai's UA works out because if you go honour you're getting loads of gold + culture + city state influence. This sets you up for a nice early game. As spain you'll be more invested in searching far and wide, less time to sit around attacking barbs/barb camps, missing out on the honour culture/city state quest influence. Really though I think the amphibious bonus is the best part of Songhai, it opens up a lot of tactical advantages to the human player, being able to attack across a river without a penalty can be extremely powerful.

CS influence: There are CS quests to find NW's or other civ's land, but more importantly, the more civs you know, the more likely you are to get random hits from connecting resources etc. that you would be doing anyway. I personally think it'd average out well for an exploring Spain. As for the gold from honour, any civ that took honour like say germany (FT went second) etc. could get that - it's a SP not part of the UA. To get it, you had to give up SP's elsewhere.

River attack - Sorry I didn't explain well. I don't like it because of Askia's army mix. There's lots of mounted for the UU, which do hit and run attacks and don't work over rivers cos they lose the movement and ability to retreat. There's also lots of ranged, because it's the best line and everyone has lots of ranged, which nullifies the river. The bonus is really for standard melee but it doesn't make sense for the Songhai to have a lot of it. They could have a more balanced army under the pretence of the river bonus for melee being a reason in itself, but then you feel like you aren't getting the most out of anything that the Songhai do.

 

[Petiscator]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 16
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 30
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 24
Dutch East India Company: 25
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 17
Nobel Prize: 23
River Warlord: 12

Nobel Prize: Only DoF two times? Get that 20% bonus and keep warmongering. Do you really have a usage for that Discipline GG? Now you do! Exchange that for whatever bonus you want. I've said it before, and will keep saying it: get some friends and pump a lot of GP to gift some of them to CSs, go warrying after finding some friends until you conquered the world (of course you will lose the friendships with time, but, in the beginning, you have a bonus), you will be generating a lot of GGs and GAs, more than needed; or go religious and gift your GProphets by picking Messiah enchancer belief, it is simple! Sweden is flexible, you can have friends and be rewarded, but you can have enemies and be rewarded with CS alliances.

River Warlord: War canoe, for me, is a sucky promotion. How often will it apply, since units can now defend themselves? Amphibious is a little better, but for those across-rivers attacks, ranged units are better. I like the bonus gold for barbarian hunting/city plundering, it is nice to have a good chunk of gold, but I preffer some more solid bonuses. I also agree that this one is only still here because it was forgoten, as there are some better UAs (Patriarchate of Constantinople, in my opinion) that should be in this place.

 

[Gucumatz]

I haven't voted on this in a while.

I see Viking Fury is sadly gone - Also Skibbi - you don't use it to retreat - you use it to give yourself several turns of advantage in combat.

---

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 16
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 31 (+1). Tactics, Gold, Options, More settlable land. These are all options of Great Andean Road making it easily the most flexible UA out there in my mind. Add into it Terrace Farms and you can shave off of many turns of getting tall or getting wide or getting conquesty with this.
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 24
Dutch East India Company: 22 (-3) Almost entirely worthless in Multiplayer. People won't trade their luxes unless they have two of them and you would most likely then also prefer to trade your duplicates as well. It might let you get to settle an extra city in singleplayer but getting too expansive has its disadvantages too on higher levels. After a while the UA simply fades too quick. For a UA to have almost 0 effect in MP - it would have to be amazing in SP, which it really isn't compared to others here.
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 17
Nobel Prize: 23
River Warlord: 12

 

[woodshadows]

CS influence: There are CS quests to find NW's or other civ's land, but more importantly, the more civs you know, the more likely you are to get random hits from connecting resources etc. that you would be doing anyway. I personally think it'd average out well for an exploring Spain. As for the gold from honour, any civ that took honour like say germany (FT went second) etc. could get that - it's a SP not part of the UA. To get it, you had to give up SP's elsewhere.

River attack - Sorry I didn't explain well. I don't like it because of Askia's army mix. There's lots of mounted for the UU, which do hit and run attacks and don't work over rivers cos they lose the movement and ability to retreat. There's also lots of ranged, because it's the best line and everyone has lots of ranged, which nullifies the river. The bonus is really for standard melee but it doesn't make sense for the Songhai to have a lot of it. They could have a more balanced army under the pretence of the river bonus for melee being a reason in itself, but then you feel like you aren't getting the most out of anything that the Songhai do.

yes, honour is a social policy available to anyone, but for songhai it's a gimme, where with spain you might rather take liberty (which most consider the best tree under most circumstances). also, to take advantage of the honour opener you have to actively be fighting barbarians, which for spain as I mentioned isn't the best strategy if you are more focused upon exploration, for Songhai attacking barb camps is your bread and butter and you can basically become allies with city states by killing a barb and taking out the barb camp, which comes incredibly early, compared to say connecting a resource or 'finding <nations> territory' [where the nation in question is one you haven't found yet only because they often aren't on the same continent or are extremely difficult to get to, since this quest never appears extra early].

 

[whyidie]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 16
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 31
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 24
Dutch East India Company: 22
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 18
Nobel Prize: 23
River Warlord: 9


Down - I do like the added bonus of no penalty for water attack. Being so conditioned to bombard to 0 before using melee is getting dull. Add in a river to an assault and logistics gets tough. With that being said I find it hard to focus on Barbarian hunting to the degree needed to really benefit from that aspect of the UA. Add in that I hate having to prioritize barb hunting and its a meh bonus. I could see coupling it with Honor to really reap the benefits, but thats not where I'm at from a playstyle perspective. War Canoe promo is even less enticing to me. So 1 really cool feature and 1 thats not a fit for my current playstyle, and another that I see limited value in. River Warlord gets the downvote.

Up - I'm better at making friends than allies. 50% bonus is significant and flexible enough if you target your city states to accomodate a pretty varied playstyle. Yes, I still have to prioritize Barbarian hunting for CS influence, but I don't feel compelled to get every last one of them.

 

[whyidie]

Forgot to add my "sorry to see you go so soon" vote to Diplomatic Marriage.

Its not OP up to Emperor in the hands of the AI. No experience yet above Emperor so I'll let those with experience chime in.

In the hands of a player like me its not OP at Emperor. Having enough gold to defend from attacks and buy CS is troublesome enough for me that I don't dominate anymore than I would with other Civs when played properly.

I AM sympathetic to those who want the CS to be liberated if conquered as it does significantly change the game.

Overall adds unique flavor to the game and I do look forward to my next Austira roll. I tire of war, love and marriage is where I'm at.

 

[ArnoldI]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 16
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 31
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 24
Dutch East India Company: 22
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 19 (+1) A wonder for me, a cultural player.
Nobel Prize: 23
River Warlord: 6 (-3) Good, but not solid

 

[Crafty Bison]

yes, honour is a social policy available to anyone, but for songhai it's a gimme, where with spain you might rather take liberty (which most consider the best tree under most circumstances). also, to take advantage of the honour opener you have to actively be fighting barbarians, which for spain as I mentioned isn't the best strategy if you are more focused upon exploration, for Songhai attacking barb camps is your bread and butter and you can basically become allies with city states by killing a barb and taking out the barb camp, which comes incredibly early, compared to say connecting a resource or 'finding <nations> territory' [where the nation in question is one you haven't found yet only because they often aren't on the same continent or are extremely difficult to get to, since this quest never appears extra early].

but that's just picking the right SP for your civ. Germany/Aztecs etc. would make the same (extra) gold and (extra) culture from barbs with honour. Similarly, Songhai don't get as much from liberty as Spain, who could have the first NW up super early. It's something i'd recommend Askia does as it suits their playing style, but not part of the UA any more than liberty is part of Spains UA.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Its not OP up to Emperor in the hands of the AI. No experience yet above Emperor so I'll let those with experience chime in.

It is definitely OP. With all the bonuses to gold and happiness the AI gets, Austria will gobble up every. single. city. state. on. the. map. It sucks. I'm sure diplo marriage was eliminated because people hate it, not because it's super powerful. I guess its not OP in the sense that the AI will win every game, but it really hurts the quality of the game when there are no city states around.

 

[Lordleoz]

Seven Cities of Gold shouldn't have been eliminated, really. It's not a total gamble if you use it properly. Although in my Spain games, I seldom start close to a NA, I always get early nice and by finding them and the game was successful.

 

[Tabarnak]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 17
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 23
Great Andean Road: 31
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 21
Dutch East India Company: 22
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 19
Nobel Prize: 23
River Warlord: 6

Ingenuity>SotJH

2 threads already exist and demonstrate the superiority of Babylon over Korea for the overall tech pace. In fact, Ingenuity is so strong that it should finish top 3 if everyone realize this in time.

 

[crawf0rd]

Sacrificial Captives: 24
Ingenuity: 17
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 26
Sun Never Sets: 24
Ancien Regime: 22
Hellenic League: 20
Great Andean Road: 31
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 21
Dutch East India Company: 22
Achaemenid Legacy: 31
The Glory of Rome: 25
Siberian Riches: 19
Father Governs Children: 19
Nobel Prize: 23
River Warlord: 7

River Warlord gives some great gold early on. The triple encampment gold is fantastic, imo. Its a NW for spain (when discovered second), but there are way more encampments than NWs. Wonderful. The war canoes and amphibious promotions are dandy too.

Hellenic League: With all the new quests and such, other civs not so interested in city states can stumble upon good influence. Not as useful since G&K.