Unique Buildings

[Drtad]

As I said before, the ones on the list are only placeholders until we get the mod ready for Warlords. After that I will read all of your suggestions carefully and decide whether to include them or not, I think the current list is a fine placeholder.

 

[Drtad]

I seem to have overlooked something... What are these buildings going to do?

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

I seem to have overlooked something... What are these buildings going to do?

That's the easy part accept for ballancing.
Post the ones you are confused on what the benefits should be and I could help.

 

[Nileppez Del]

Instead of going straight to picking unique buildings for each Civ .. I think you should first list them out and determine what trait of each Civ you want to emphasize with the Unique Building .. Once you have a list of all the Civs and what the buildings should do .. then you move on to assigning specific buildings to Civs .. I think the most important thing is that they are useful and not unbalancing ..

When deciding what the unique buildings should accent you also need to take into consideration what traits the civ already has .. For example if Rome is already organized .. It would not be much help to give them a better courthouse .. If a Civ were Creative .. then an Aqueduct that gives an extra 2 Culture would not be useful ..

anyways ..

instead of starting with a list of Civs and buildings .. it might work better with a list of Civs and what historical traits come to mind that you can accentuate with a Unique Buildings .. Then you narrow it down to one per Civ .. Then you design the actual buildings .

Example ..

Illyrian - City Defense , Seafaring , Unit Defense
Roman - Organization , Infastructure , Conquest
Lydian - Wealth
Medes - Organization , Archery (military tactics)
Iberian - Horsemanship
Hittites - Metalworking
Babylon- Culture , Research
Egypt - Production ,
Mycenae - Seafaring , Unit Defense


Those are just some examples .. may not even all be accurate .. I should have done some homework before opening my mouth .. Just thought I would share that I think you should start with a list of what you want the buildings to do .. before worrying about actual buildings ..

 

[Drtad]

I have posted my ideas for effects on the first page. Only the Henge has nothing next to it as I do not know what it could give, maybe calendar centering? Extra culture? Happiness? Druid priest?

 

[Hypnotoad]

Henge: +1 happiness (they seemed to really like building these, for whatever reason).

For the Lydian Market it does seem overpowered: +30%+5% for every luxury resource?

Given that the Phonecians were master traders, perhaps something a bit more for their harbor? Perhaps in addition to +1 trade route, they can build merchant vessels at half cost?

Don't walls normally only give 25%? The Lion's Gate seems a bit too much.

Free Tin resource doesn't seem right for a unique building. Perhaps +10% to all trade routes for every type of metal the owner controls?

The biggest concern for me about TAM Warlords is going to be the Unique Buildings. Here is the list of what I have come up with.

Persia=Apothecary Warlords effect
Media=Median Training Camp? (barracks) +5 exp.
Kolchis=Kolchean Harbor? more trade route
Lydia=Lydian Market? +50% wealth +5% for every luxury resource (overpowered a bit?)
Hittites=Hittite Lion Gate? (Walls) +2 culture 75% city defense
Babylon=Edubba? (Library) +40% research
Egypt=Obelisk Warlords effect
Nubia=Nubian Pyramid more culture?
Rome=Forum Warlords effect
Gaul=Celtic Dun? (walls) Warlords effect
Germany=Thengaz (court) less production cost than normal court since it was just a ring of rocks
Carthage=Cothon Warlords effect
Greece=Odeon Warlords effect
Illyria=Kala (Castle) +100% city defense +1 exp for all units trained
Getae/Dacia=Immortal Shrine? (holy site) +1 happiness, +1 culture?
Phoenicia=Trading Post (harbor) +1 trade routes
Britons=Henge? (monument) No idea really on the effect
Iberian Tribes=Iberian Stables? +2 extra horse exp.?
Tartessians=Tartessian Docks? giving free tin resource?
Scythia=Scythian Burial Mound? +2 experience to horses?
Every other civ I forgot=?

Any ideas are welcome.

 

[SrWilliam]

For the Goths, perhaps the Mead Hall?

Replaces Tavern, +2 xp or free combat 1???

I think the Kala looks a little too powerful.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

For scythian burial ground if you're going to give free exp to mounted units why not change it to scythian stables?

 

[Drtad]

Somebody told me I should change the Scythian stables to Scythian burial ground. I wanted to focus on the Scythian cavalry superiority, so I guess it should be changed back.

 

[Shqype]

For the Goths, perhaps the Mead Hall?

Replaces Tavern, +2 xp or free combat 1???

I think the Kala looks a little too powerful.

You're right, lol, I don't know who came up with those stats, but if you reduce the defense to an additional 10% above normal I think it would be a little more balanced.

I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with this, though, so I'll try to rethink the Illyrian UB...

 

[Shqype]

What does everyone think of having 2 UBs? For the Illyrians the Kala is cool, but I'de really like to have the Kuvend, most likely a courthouse replacement, as well.

Kuvend, in Albania, was a form of exercising one's power in regard to community decisions that might affect one's family or self. Literally translated as conversation, its meaning is closer to convention. The kuvend derives from ancient times; what kept it alive for the last 500 years was the refusal of Northern Albanians to accept the legal system provided by the Ottoman Empire.

Kuvend's most important contribution to the Albanian Heritage is thousands of years of the Albanians assembling to change, manipulate and improve the Canon of Albania, especially its two more advanced versions, The Canon of Mountains in Malsia e Madhe, Rugova, and Gjakova and Canon of Lek Dukagjini in Mirdita, Zadrima, and Dukagjini. The Kuvend ended with the independence of Albania from the Ottoman Empire in 1912. Since then the Kuvend takes place at the Palace of Kuvendi Popullor (The Palace of People's Convention) and is the equivalent of the congress.

The Kuvend actually derives from Illyrian times and had to do with the Illyrian tribal chieftains retaining self-rule while acknowledging the overlordship of the Caesar. Those mountain Illyrians were not subdued.

EDIT: Here we go:

For about four centuries, Roman rule brought the Illyrian-populated lands economic and cultural advancement and ended most of the enervating clashes among local tribes. The Illyrian mountain clansmen retained local authority but pledged allegiance to the emperor and acknowledged the authority of his envoys. During a yearly holiday honoring the Caesars, the Illyrian mountaineers swore loyalty to the emperor and reaffirmed their political rights. A form of this tradition, known as the kuvend, has survived to the present day in northern Albania.

 

[Drtad]

You're right, lol, I don't know who came up with those stats,

Hey, I did! Anyway, I just came up with a quick first draft before I had to get to class, so I expected it to be a little (wayyy) unbalanced. I'll think about it and post some changes on the front page. Two UBs... Hmm... Maybe a later version, I'd ask Laurino, the new leader.

 

[Hypnotoad]

I'd say let's start with 1. Of course all of the civs are cool and we could probably come up with 2, but it adds complexity, extra work, extra balancing...

 

[Laurino]

UB will be in 1.98, so I implemented them for now, but in a "basic" way. All names can be changed, as are all "effects", since 1.98 is not completed.

So here's the list:

1-Persia, Apothecary: +2 health, 15% commerce, opens 2 merchant slots, +1 health with Wine/Fruits/Olives/Opium

2-Media, Training Camp: +5 exp. to land units

3-Kolchis, Harbor: +3 exp. to naval units, +2 trade routes, +1 health with Clam/Crab/Fish

4-Lydia, Market: +1 happiness, +3 gold, +1 happiness with Ivory/Gold/Silver/Fur/Opium/Amber

5- Hittite, Lion Gates: +2 culture, +50% defense

6- Babylon, Edubba: +25% research

7- Egypt, Obelisk: +3 culture, +1 happiness

8- Nubia, Royal Tomb: +4 culture, +1 happiness

9- Rome, Forum: +25% more great people emergence, +30% commerce, +1 happiness with Ivory/Gold/Silver/Fur/Opium/Amber

10- Gaul, Dun: +50% defense, free Guerilla1 promotion

11- Germanic Tribes, Thengaz: -25% maintenance, reduced cost (60), +1 happiness

12- Carthage, Cothon: +1 trade route, +60% commerce per trade routes

13- Mycenaean, Odeon: +2 happiness, +1 happiness with Dye, +4 culture

14- Illyria, Kala: +1 culture, +50% defense, +2 exp. to land units

15- Dacia, Immortal Shrine: +2 culture, +1 happiness

16- Phoenicia, Trading Post: +1 trade routes +1 health with Fish/Crab/Clam, +10% commerce with Ivory/Gold/Silver/Fur/Wine/Gems/Amber

17- Britons, Henge: +2 culture, +2 happiness

18- Iberia, Stables: +3 exp for Cavalry units

19- Tartessia, Docks: +2 exp for naval units, +1 trade route, +10% commerce per metal

20- Scythia, Stables: +3 exp for Cavalry units

btw, stables are in now, as a normal building, like in Warlords

 

[ambrox62]

UB seems OK to me, but I think they should improve gameplay balance among civs.

Starting with 1.96 through 1.97, I'm playing games with every civ on normal maps in a conservative and not-warmonger style, let civs to develope themselves as much as possible.

The average of 5 games is:

Points Civ
2.349 Ham
2.210 Hat
2.141 Eet
2.025 Arg
1.802 Did
1.645 Dec
1.450 Ver
1.402 Par
1.380 Cre
1.318 JuC
1.307 Aga
1.068 Teu
958 Hir
857 Arm
657 Sup
354 Vir

It's a "weighted" average, because, for each game, points don't include my civ and all civs losing cities in wars vs me.

Average shows better civs than others, so UBs effect should consider that.

I'll continue to improve this stat playing every civ

 

[Laurino]

Nice info!

Were these games played on pre-made maps, or normal rdm ones?

 

[Hypnotoad]

I think there is a strong -- good -- idea that pre-made maps should be unbalanced. You want Rome and Egypt to be strong, for example.

 

[ambrox62]

Normal pre-made map.
I'll plan to play one game for each civ, 16 in total.
If I succeed in finishing my Hiram CTD game, I'll reach 6 games

PS
Playing Hiram, I didn't see any sea resource near phoenician coasts or Cyprus, so there wasn't any strategic reason for going towards fishing and shipping techs early.
I think it's for balance purpose, but it's very weird also

 

[ambrox62]

I think there is a strong -- good -- idea that pre-made maps should be unbalanced. You want Rome and Egypt to be strong, for example.

Yes I agree, but UB effects shouldn't raise the civ gap further

 

[Laurino]

The better civs are balanced on a Random map, the better it is... The scenarios will make better civ with their own settings... It would be nice though to have a Med map that is almost "balanced".