Unique Improvements Are They Just Busted?

[peter79]

So I just started messing about with unique improvements and it looks like when you build a UI on a rural tile you still get the rural yields including warehouse bonuses (despite turning it into an urban tile as well whatever bonuses the UI gives. Also its ageless! So is there any reason why you shouldn't replace all your existing rural tiles with UI's whenever possible?

 

[wesplaysciv]

It counts as an urban tile afterwards?

I think they usually make sense but there’s a production cost, they are higher repair cost, and there’s opp cost from the other possible suzerain benefits

 

[Evolena]

So I just started messing about with unique improvements and it looks like when you build a UI on a rural tile you still get the rural yields including warehouse bonuses

That's intended.

(despite turning it into an urban tile

It counts as an urban tile afterwards?

No they don't.

 

[peter79]

That's intended.


No they don't.

My mistake I misread the UI you are warned you are building over the rural improvement and I thought it was being converted to an urban tile.

 

[Evolena]

It's not completely intuitive!

 

[Aurelesk]

So I just started messing about with unique improvements and it looks like when you build a UI on a rural tile you still get the rural yields including warehouse bonuses (despite turning it into an urban tile as well whatever bonuses the UI gives. Also its ageless! So is there any reason why you shouldn't replace all your existing rural tiles with UI's whenever possible?

I didn't played Civilization with a Unique Tile Improvement yet (only Unique Buildings). I know for a fact that Unique Tile Improvement from City-States are loosing their secondary effects. I remember one giving Culture, and a Food bonus depending how much rural tiles it has around. That Food bonus disappeared when I reach the next era.

Can someone tell me if Unique Tile Improvement from a Civilization behave the same or not?

 

[Big J Money]

I think there are 2 possible warnings: one for when you will overwrite a rural improvement, and one for when you will turn a rural tile into an urban one. The way this stuff is laid out all over the screen is very confusing.

 

[queenpea]

I don't really understand rural improvements so far. In my game, you need to first improve a rural tile and then replace it with a unique improvement.

For example, in a recent Ming game: each tile of the Great Wall first required a rural improvement (a farm, woodcutter, or mine), meaning that you could not extend the path of the Great Wall without population growth. Then, you place the Great Wall over the rural improvement. Unlike when placing an urban tile over a rural district, you then do not get an opportunity to move the rural improvement to a new tile.

I guess this is ok for most rural improvements, but with the Great Wall, which works best in contiguous segments, it does not work very well at all, and you can see the AI struggling to make larger segments.

 

[wesplaysciv]

I don't really understand rural improvements so far. In my game, you need to first improve a rural tile and then replace it with a unique improvement.

For example, in a recent Ming game: each tile of the Great Wall first required a rural improvement (a farm, woodcutter, or mine), meaning that you could not extend the path of the Great Wall without population growth. Then, you place the Great Wall over the rural improvement. Unlike when placing an urban tile over a rural district, you then do not get an opportunity to move the rural improvement to a new tile.

I guess this is ok for most rural improvements, but with the Great Wall, which works best in contiguous segments, it does not work very well at all, and you can see the AI struggling to make larger segments.

I think that makes sense since they count as rural worked tiles. Probably for the best Great Wall you need to plan ahead

 

[Fluffball]

The game does tell you (in a way) somewhere that unique tile improvement build upon the rural tile so you get both sets of yields but it doesn't tell you when your actually placing the improvement which make it confusing for the player.

I am even more confused by the ability or not to overbuild them though.

I used them quite a lot in my.last game, usually spamming them at the end of an era as a gold sink. Layer I was sometimes able to build over them and not able to build over them in other.

My best guess at the moment is it seems you can overbuild unique civ tiles but not unique tiles provided by city states.

 

[UWHabs]

You can always overbuild on them, assuming other rules are obeyed. I'm guessing that they do it that way for a specific reason in counting urban/rural tiles and population, but agreed it's a little weird how it works. "Let's build a farm, and then immediately buy a Great Wall piece".

 

[Sagax]

I don't really understand rural improvements so far. In my game, you need to first improve a rural tile and then replace it with a unique improvement.

For example, in a recent Ming game: each tile of the Great Wall first required a rural improvement (a farm, woodcutter, or mine), meaning that you could not extend the path of the Great Wall without population growth. Then, you place the Great Wall over the rural improvement. Unlike when placing an urban tile over a rural district, you then do not get an opportunity to move the rural improvement to a new tile.

I guess this is ok for most rural improvements, but with the Great Wall, which works best in contiguous segments, it does not work very well at all, and you can see the AI struggling to make larger segments.

Kind of agree on this - being tied to population growth, requiring a rural improvement, AND essentially having to keep the town unspecialized if you want any sensible placement, makes the Walls clunky to build.

I don’t know how much it would wreck the game balance, but I wish UIs could just be buildable on their own, without the rural improvements - and then players can choose to add the rural improvement to them during growth events. Doesn’t seem too bad to me, because most improvements on their own have so-so yields - it’s the stacking with rural improvements that makes them good.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

It'd be nice if Unique Improvements received any/all Town Specialization buffs...

 

[chazzycat]

Is anyone else kinda bothered by the phrase "does not remove warehouse bonuses"?

Like to me, "warehouse bonus" and "terrain yield" should have different meanings. The warehouse bonus seems like it only refers to the +1 food added by granaries, fishing quays etc. Because those buildings clearly say they provide warehouse bonuses in the description when you build them.

But there is no such indication that disaster-added fertility events qualify as warehouse bonuses, and it doesn't really make sense to classify them as such. They are just normal terrain yields.

I think they should just change wording to "does not remove terrain yields" if that's what it does.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Is anyone else kinda bothered by the phrase "does not remove warehouse bonuses"?

Like to me, "warehouse bonus" and "terrain yield" should have different meanings. The warehouse bonus seems like it only refers to the +1 food added by granaries, fishing quays etc. Because those buildings clearly say they provide warehouse bonuses in the description when you build them.

But there is no such indication that disaster-added fertility events qualify as warehouse bonuses, and it doesn't really make sense to classify them as such. They are just normal terrain yields.

I think they should just change wording to "does not remove terrain yields" if that's what it does.

The two actually mean separate things, as warehouse boni apply not to specific terrain, but to specific tile improvements. Keeping the tile yield is an inherent attribute of Rural Districts, not removing the warehouse bonus is explaining that for the purposes of warehouses, it still counts as a farm or woodcutter or pasture or whatever was previously there.

 

[queenpea]

Kind of agree on this - being tied to population growth, requiring a rural improvement, AND essentially having to keep the town unspecialized if you want any sensible placement, makes the Walls clunky to build.

I don’t know how much it would wreck the game balance, but I wish UIs could just be buildable on their own, without the rural improvements - and then players can choose to add the rural improvement to them during growth events. Doesn’t seem too bad to me, because most improvements on their own have so-so yields - it’s the stacking with rural improvements that makes them good.

Big time agree here. Let's say it takes 10 turns for a town to grow and build a farm, then another 2 to 4 turns to build a Great Wall segment. Either the wall should be buildable without an improvement underneath it already, or the improvements should be buffed to make the planning and investment more worth it.

Also, I have to say, I fully didn't understand that the wall would stack with the rural improvement underneath it.

In any case, I currently prefer civilizations with unique buildings and quarters over those with unique improvements.

 

[local_hero]

I like the UIs actually, although with the Great Wall as a particular exception. I like that you can have unique improvements in all settlements in contrast to the unique quarters. Maybe equally much to make civ heritage noticeable across all settlements, not just because of their yields.

 

[chazzycat]

The two actually mean separate things, as warehouse boni apply not to specific terrain, but to specific tile improvements. Keeping the tile yield is an inherent attribute of Rural Districts, not removing the warehouse bonus is explaining that for the purposes of warehouses, it still counts as a farm or woodcutter or pasture or whatever was previously there.

I get that. My issue is just that the terminology doesn't cover the situation of disaster-added fertility in a way that makes it clear that you get to keep those tile yields. It took me a while to understand that it's actually a really good idea to build UI's over natural disaster sites with their inflated yields, because I didn't think those qualified as warehouse bonuses and didn't want to lose them.