Uniques Units: Some Seem Useless

[TheMeInTeam]

Vanilla Cossacks (esp the 18 str kind) that came where we now see cuirassers were absolutely insane...too bad I didn't really play until after BTS was out.

 

[BigTime]

They are still good nonetheless, though. I think firaxis though an 18 str cavalry was a little too overpowering

 

[Gliese 581]

The OP is absolutely right in that all UUs are not born equal. By the way did someone criticise the quecha? I almost dropped my monocle.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Aren't some civilization's unique units (eg, Samurai for Japan) just completely useless because they belong to a bygone era and become obselete rather quickly in the game? In other words, isn't having advanced special units like panzers (Germany) a big step up from having ancient melee units like Japan's samurai?

You actually got it backwards here. A lot of the UUs that are considered the most powerful come really early in the game. The idea is that a strong UU that comes early can help you secure an advantage that will carry you through the rest of the game.

 

[lymond]

You actually got it backwards here. A lot of the UUs that are considered the most powerful come really early in the game. The idea is that a strong UU that comes early can help you secure an advantage that will carry you through the rest of the game.

^^^^^Point 'o the Day!

 

[Xiao Xiong]

Gallics (free Gureilla I to a Swords is pretty lame)

Are you kidding?? They're great. If you build a barracks and a dun they come out with combat 1 and guerrilla2, and with charisma they promote real quick to guerilla3. Plus you only need copper to build them.

You do know that at g3 they get a chance on retreating? It's also not that bad to have bonuses attacking hills, you know, those pesky cities the AI built on a hill?

Promote them up a bit later and you wind up with rifles that hardly ever die because they either win or retreat. Who even needs siege in that case? Your units have such high odds of surviving combat that they hardly ever die, even when they lose.

 

[CivConVict]

Are you kidding?? They're great. If you build a barracks and a dun they come out with combat 1 and guerrilla2, and with charisma they promote real quick to guerilla3. Plus you only need copper to build them.

You do know that at g3 they get a chance on retreating? It's also not that bad to have bonuses attacking hills, you know, those pesky cities the AI built on a hill?

Promote them up a bit later and you wind up with rifles that hardly ever die because they either win or retreat. Who even needs siege in that case? Your units have such high odds of surviving combat that they hardly ever die, even when they lose.

EDIT: Ok, I stand corrected: Every unit that is eligible for guerilla promotions to begin with benefits from the dun. Since that doesn't include swordsmen, that is a real benefit for the gallic warrior.

 

[Nilmerf]

Wait, I was under the impression that a Dun didn't do anything for a Gallic Warrior.

 

[CivConVict]

Wait, I was under the impression that a Dun didn't do anything for a Gallic Warrior.

It doesn't.

 

[Bibor]

Wait, I was under the impression that a Dun didn't do anything for a Gallic Warrior.

I think the bonus is added, not so sure tho (Gallic + Dun = Guerilla II).

Back on topic I split Unique units into only two categories, the ones you can invade (better) with and the ones that you can defend (better) with.
Since attack is the best defense, offensive units are valued more by players than defensive ones.

The better in offense an UU is, the greater chance it has a counter in its era.
For example, a simple 35 Spearman is the best counter to the powerful 30 Immortals.

Even the 45 Praetorian can loose to equal amount of 35 Axemen (Axe replacements Dog Soldiers or Vulture eat them).

But the best UUs are the well-rounded ones. That's why Praets are so popular. They can be countered by lots of axes or axe replacements, true, but they also excel at attacking any other unit, while Vultures and and Dogs excel only at attacking other melee units.

As some people already said, Combat promotions are in most cases superior to other promos (excluding medic), and the same is true for UUs as well.

Praetorians, Vultures, Cataphracts, Skirmishers, War chariots and Jannisaries are my favourites. Honorable mention to Keshiks and Immortals - these guys, if used properly, are devastating in their time.

 

[obsolete]

Every unit starts with Guerilla I, if you have a dun and can thus be promoted to Guerilla II with barracks.

Actually, only specific units get the Guerilla I. And the UB also expires just to make things worse.

I have to agree with MadScientist, it's really not so hot, (and that's putting it lightly!)

 

[McThomas]

I know i will get hanged, lynched and burned BUT: The Keshik is useless... you cant use it in the way it was used historical... but its a nice cottage tourch...

Allso: The Mogolian Empire started out in 1200, man, by that time i have Pikes and guns! and are winning the Lib race :O

 

[Bostock]

Take it to General Topics's "If Civ were real life" thread, please.

 

[Bibor]

I know i will get hanged, lynched and burned BUT: The Keshik is useless... you cant use it in the way it was used historical... but its a nice cottage tourch...

Allso: The Mogolian Empire started out in 1200, man, by that time i have Pikes and guns! and are winning the Lib race :O

Mongol armies are not to be mistaken with Huns and other steppe tribes that relied on cavalry archers. Mongols had combined arms forces, complete with trebuchets, siege engineers, bombardiers, and field engineers. Mongol army at its peak was a prime example of how the Art of war can be applied to created a deadly force.

 

[McThomas]

Mongol armies are not to be mistaken with Huns and other steppe tribes that relied on cavalry archers. Mongols had combined arms forces, complete with trebuchets, siege engineers, bombardiers, and field engineers. Mongol army at its peak was a prime example of how the Art of war can be applied to created a deadly force.

Thank you... i will apply that to my Forces, but i like the Khesiks for a very good reason, the Ignores Tarrain Movement... i looove raiding and pillaging while my SOD moves up for city attacks

 

[Windsor]

Keshiks should of course replace knights rather than horse archers. At the same time, there is something "wrong" with the tech tree. Knights requiring feudalism is very logical, but their lifespan is way to short. And it doesn't make it better that Firaxis messed up with catapults/trebs/castles and killing medieval warfare.

But now I'm way off topic

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I know i will get hanged, lynched and burned BUT: The Keshik is useless... you cant use it in the way it was used historical... but its a nice cottage tourch...

Allso: The Mogolian Empire started out in 1200, man, by that time i have Pikes and guns! and are winning the Lib race :O

Cottage torch? How about "entire continent torch" below deity?

 

[vicawoo]

Wow a retro party. Why isn't Hitler a leader?

 

[Kietharr]

Actually lategame UU/UBs are considered almost universally worse than earlier ones. Panzers and SEALS tie for the latest UUs. In the great majority of games you've either won or lost by that point in the game.

The Praetorian is considered the best UU in the game because it provides such a huge bonus and comes at a time when you should be expanding. Actually the Quecha is one of the strongest UUs for the same reason, it allows you to be militarily dominant at a time when everyone else is fielding only warriors and MAYBE an archer or two. Both of the chariot UUs are also considered strong. It's about boosting your relative power.

 

[JTMacc99]

Hey guys.

I wasn't talking about the panzer specifically... just using an example. I am new to the game and am trying to understand the advantages/disadvantages different civs have over each other. (for instance, i played the Indian Empire in my first game; it has fast workers which were pretty useful throughout the entire game (up until the time victory in 2050))

Here's the deal: Almost all of the UUs have something about them that makes them useful. There are some, which most people will agree upon, that are far MORE useful and some that are barely useful at all. For example, the Roman Praetorian is unbelievably powerful, and in most standard map games, you will have a window to use them and pretty much set yourself up to win the game before they are obsolete. On the other hand, the Khmer Balista Elephant has a very specific use and scenario where their uniqueness means something for you. Plus, it's not like you are pretty likely to get elephants in the first place.


Now, as for what I think was the point of your question, I think I need to veer slightly off the topic of Unique Units and more into how to win games in general. As you play more and more Civ 4 (and you will,) you will probably start to get a feel for the Carpe Diem aspect of the game. Many, if not all, games are won by experienced players by seizing the opportunity to win when it presents itself.

As I noted earlier, if you have Roman Praetorian swordsmen, and close neighbors (especially nice ones who found religions and build wonders) then it is almost always a good idea to build enough cities to grab iron and decent production base to build Praets, and almost nothing but Praets shortly after you discover iron working, which should be a VERY high priority on your early research path. Then, you just take your big stack and create your very own Roman Empire. Hopefully you have as many as three capital city sites by the time you settle in to run a peaceful game for a while. In most cases, you pretty much just won the game right there, and it never really mattered that your UU had a relatively early and somewhat short life. (Well, the Praet actually has a pretty long life, but you get the point.)

In another example, you might be able to expand relatively peacefully as Japan for the early part of the game, but be ready to expand around the time of Civil Service. If you can manage to get yourself Engineering shortly after you can start building Samurais, you can put together a pretty formidable force of Trebs for your siege weapons and Samurai + Longbow to take and hold many enemy cities right around the time you can afford to pay for them. Again, while the samurai doesn't have a particularly long life, it is actually a pretty good unit and can be timed to show up exactly at the point in the game where you can do some serious damage.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, it is not so much the lifespan of the UU that makes it good or bad (although it is a factor), it is more a matter of whether or not you can use it to your advantage when it becomes available. Some of the UUs are much easier to find a use for, and other ones can either be awesome or a complete waste depending on the game.