Uniques Units: Some Seem Useless

[St. Augustine]

so it seems that the original post has again degraded into an arguement between the sheer value of the unit standing alone vs. the value of the unit in the hands of a capable player. In terms of sheer unit value how can you not love a unit like the Praetorian or Red Coat? But more intriguingly (and one of the things i love most about civ) is that in the hands of an experienced player a unit such as the Carrack can provide a devestating edge (granted you'd be playing under certain conditions - otherwise I hate that damn boat). As for an answer to the post I personally have always liked Hwatchas, tough little buggers and it's obviously that seige is one thing you're going to build anyway.

 

[Udey1]

That was a very valid point Troy. Once again you made my day.



2-pop gets you one infantry, or two super-reds, so which would you pick? Furthermore, by the time your other opponents next in line get infantry, your current charismatic Reds already have enough promos to win out in the field.

seconded, obsolete is right and that is why i love playing churchill.

 

[Rittmeyer]

2-pop gets you one infantry, or two super-reds, so which would you pick? Furthermore, by the time your other opponents next in line get infantry, your current charismatic Reds already have enough promos to win out in the field.

But wouldn't the right move in such a game (one in which I plan on conquering in the Infantry age) be to draf regular (or not) rifles and then upgrade to infantry (helped by a trade mission maybe)?

This is a question, not a challenge, so I'm sorry if I'm being stupid.

 

[Gliese 581]

The real question is whether you would still be in nationhood at that point. I guess that depends..

 

[Monsterzuma]

It's funny that people consider Oromo Warriors a top dog UU, yet look down on Sumurai when the two are similar in a lot of respects and about equally powerful when used with their native leaders. Samurai actually get the advantage of being available at a far earlier date and are cheaper to boot. When drafted, the two are on equal footing.

 

[azzaman333]

It's funny that people consider Oromo Warriors a top dog UU, yet look down on Sumurai when the two are similar in a lot of respects and about equally powerful when used with their native leaders. Samurai actually get the advantage of being available at a far earlier date and are cheaper to boot. When drafted, the two are on equal footing.

The difference is Samurai require Iron. Oromos are resourceless.

Although I may be in the minority when valuing resourcelessness as an important factor in UU.

 

[cherrysnowdrop]

Resources can be very tiring, I played a game with Tokugawa planning on a Samurai rush completely neglecting culture, just to see that I am nowhere near iron.

I try to attack the AI before they get gunpowder, after that they get really strong armies, so I find early UUs the best.

 

[Windsor]

The samurai is less attractive because Firaxis killed medieval warfare in BTS. In addition Tokugawa got the best gunpowder units in the game when both his traits kicks in. And it is boring when you don't have iron.

The oromo on the other hand gives you a free first strike, immunity from first strikes and drill1+2 so it goes very well with a cannon-driven war. Oromos are very attractive upgrading to rifles and infantry since they will be DrillIV already at 5XP.

 

[madscientist]

The biggest edge Orome have over Samuri is that you need alot less seige as the Orome ignore Walls and Castels defensive bonus while the Samuri does not. On the other hand Samuri do get the CR bonus. Also on the Samiuri side is that axemen cam be upgraded to them while Orome have to built from scratch.

 

[UncleJJ]

Pitting Oromo's against Samurai is a bit unfair. Toku muskets are brilliant troops and it is those you should compare with Oromo and they don't disappoint. I often find that the best way to play Toku is to ignore Samurai and just head straight for Liberalism, Nationalism and Gunpowder and then trade for Machinery and Engineering. Draft muskets, trebs and samurai are a good combo and usually strong enough to start wars before cannons. Although cannons are a high research priority of course and they allow the warmongering to continue against stronger opponents and especially against castles. Samurai with CR propmotions are great when upgraded to grenadiers or rifles. Toku grenadiers make very strong machine gunners when upgraded as well. The samurai is a rather weak UU when compared to the other troops Toku can field.

 

[Nilmerf]

The real question is whether you would still be in nationhood at that point. I guess that depends..

Nationhood is an end-game civic if you don't have any cottages. This happens in about 40% of my games, though I'm probably in the minority.

 

[madscientist]

Pitting Oromo's against Samurai is a bit unfair. Toku muskets are brilliant troops and it is those you should compare with Oromo and they don't disappoint. I often find that the best way to play Toku is to ignore Samurai and just head straight for Liberalism, Nationalism and Gunpowder and then trade for Machinery and Engineering. Draft muskets, trebs and samurai are a good combo and usually strong enough to start wars before cannons. Although cannons are a high research priority of course and they allow the warmongering to continue against stronger opponents and especially against castles. Samurai with CR propmotions are great when upgraded to grenadiers or rifles. Toku grenadiers make very strong machine gunners when upgraded as well. The samurai is a rather weak UU when compared to the other troops Toku can field.

I will agree with all of this regarding Toku. Drafted Muskets are far better than Samuri. However, upgrading axes (usaully well expereinced) is well worth the gold.

The conversation was essentially comparing UUs though, which was my point about Orome's versus Samuri.

 

[r_rolo1]

Nationhood is an end-game civic if you don't have any cottages. This happens in about 40% of my games, though I'm probably in the minority.

I also bet that you will not see any of the AI stats from that point on and that you get mauled to no end by enemy spy activities That or you play a level where things are settled to your side as soon as you get Natio....

P.S And don't forget the WW .....

 

[mirthadir]

But wouldn't the right move in such a game (one in which I plan on conquering in the Infantry age) be to draf regular (or not) rifles and then upgrade to infantry (helped by a trade mission maybe)?

This is a question, not a challenge, so I'm sorry if I'm being stupid.

No. Upgrading costs a substantial amount of gold, which normally comes out of your science rate. The "correct" option is to skip AL as you don't need factories (much) and to get something better to back the redcoats, like cannons -> arty or airships -> fighters -> bombers. On offense, all a stronger unit does is reduce the amount of collateral you need. Redcoats are very efficient at giving you more strength at no additional cost; it requires fewer cannons/airships/arty/fighters/bombers to roll with redcoats against rifles/grens/infantry. MG/RC/cannon/fighter or MG/RC/arty/airship are about the most efficient armies to fight in the early industrial era.

 

[r_rolo1]

MG/RC/cannon/fighter or MG/RC/arty/airship are about the most efficient armies to fight in the early industrial era.

This is why I would love to have the Spanish UB and the English UU in the same civ

 

[mirthadir]

This is why I would love to have the Spanish UB and the English UU in the same civ

Ahh but then the question is whom shall you have lead the Spanglish legions? Churchill, Boudi, or Toko (maybe throw in Cyrus)?

 

[r_rolo1]

Definitely a Cha leader to make good use of the extra XP on the siege. This leaves the other trait for discussion

 

[budweiser]

To be honest, most of my England games are over before I even get rifles. If not, then I simply use cavalry instead of rifles. The Red Coat seems more defense oriented to me, and defense isnt much of an issue.

 

[mirthadir]

Definitely a Cha leader to make good use of the extra XP on the siege. This leaves the other trait for discussion

Well I like churchill. Bonus first strikes make for more rapid gains and cheaper citadels would also be fun.

 

[HanzooznaH]

Camel Archer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All



/sarcasm