Unit Request: INDUSTRIAL SAMURAI!!! Mhahaha

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The idea behind the Industrial Samurai would be if Japan's technological development advanced independantly from Europe, yet at the same rate, sort of like the premise behind the Industrial Legion.

Like the Industrial Legion, I'd imagine the Industrial Samurai would be wearing a World War One Variant of the Ancient Samurai Armor.

 

[Goldflash]

At least its not a fish...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Hey! I'm the one who requested the Haida Canoe orginally, so my infatuation with Gouramis doesn't go that deep...Pun intended..

 

[Unexisted]

Wouldn't a Industrial Samurai be the same as a Medieval? With Tradition, they didn't change. If you add a gun/rifle it would be a Samurai. If they changed to Industrial type, they would have fought with guns instead of swords, right?

But still make it!

 

[Redking]

What does he look like?

Full fuedal samurai regalia with a rifle would look anachronistic to me.

If a culture is sensible enough to adopt modern weaponry, why would they hold on to older armor in its entirety.

Japan was an active militant at the turn of the last century, so it's not as if they dropped off the face of the earth and we can't imagine what they wore. As did every other modern armed force of the time, they shed body armor and nationalized uniforms. If the Samurai class had survived, why would they inhibit their battlefield efficiency by strapping on armor that their foes wisely dropped? Wouldn't a samurai of that era just be a mounted rifleman with a side-katana, and maybe some flourish on his epaulettes?

- Redking

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

In World War One, soldiers wore armor to protect from shrapnel. Think alternate timeline people!

 

[Redking]

I have no trouble thinking alternate timeline. That wasn't my criticism.
As to WWI era body armor... uh, we all know it was neither pravalent nor consistently successful. There's body armor today as well, but as the world nationalized, then globalized, flair and tradition give way a great deal.

Fascist regimes seem to provide the best examples of throwbacks, but even the Nazi Germans didn't turn back toward gothic armor or winged helmets - they touched themselves up with symbols and smaller pieces of ornamentation that didn't get in the way of modern fighting.

I'm just saying that a turn of the century (hypothetical) samurai would likely be a pretty subtle deviation from the bulk of the Japanese army that it would (I suppose) provide shock/special troops for.

How bout this: give him a front mask that is a gas mask (so he can go in anywhere), a katana, a short-katana (can't remember the term offhand) bayonet extension to his carbine, a slightly stylized helmet, and a prominent nationalist symbol on his chest (he's supposed to be his people's ubermensch and to scare the opposition, like the deathsheads on the SS).

 

[Ed O'War]

I'm all for alternate time-line type units, and I hope someone makes this unit.

However...

Samurai are the Japanese equivalent of knights, the professional warrior class of a feudal society. This class was considered so exclusive that only the elite of society, essentially nobles, could belong to it.

Firearms brought about the end of the knight in Europe. A common peasant with a crude gunpowder weapon could easily defeat a mounted knight. So, even if Japan developed an industrial society independent from Western influence, it still seems logical that the advent of firearms would signal the end of the Samurai class, especially by the time that they were mass producing firearms in factories (which is what 'industrial' implies). It's far more likely that Japan would develop some form of peasant conscription, equipping them with firearms. Members of the samurai class would likely be the officers of the military, but commoners would make up the bulk of it's ranks.

Just some food for thought. Anyways, good luck with the unit, it would at least look cool.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Fascist regimes seem to provide the best examples of throwbacks, but even the Nazi Germans didn't turn back toward gothic armor or winged helmets - they touched themselves up with symbols and smaller pieces of ornamentation that didn't get in the way of modern fighting.

Japan copied Sammurai stuff as much as Germany borrowed from the past. Sammurai swords were even used for Japanese executions of prisoners. Soliders were also expected to follow the Bushido code, and never surrender.

Much of what we think of with Sammurai took place when their role was symbolic. Sammurai were a seperate class, and were the only ones allowed to carry two swords. The problem with Japan is real-life units existed, so imagination isn't needed. Unfortunately, they don't look much like Sammurai. Honestly, the only role I could think of for a Sammurai cast in World War One or World War Two would be as a general.

 

[Redking]

Why quote me? To set up a counterpoint? Did I not make the very same points?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I don't know why he quoted you, but it wasn't malign Redking. Nobodys mean on this forum, thats why I like it so much.

Anyway, here are my thoughts.

Knights largely became obsolete because their was no way to make armor thick enough to protect from bullets and still be practical on the battlefield. A similiar thing happened with the Samurai, in that they largely moved off the battlefield and into bereucratic roles.

One possible alternative history(And its a good history that would suit this unit) would be if Humanity discovered a new metal so strong that no amount of bullets could penetrate it. However, this metal was confined to Japan, where the Samurai quickly used it to arm themselves.

 

[TopGun]

Many Samurai (or descendants of Samurai families) became officers in the Imperial Army... and yes, they continued to embrace the ideals of bushido.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

As the Modern US army's code contains many elements of Chivalry....

So any takers?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Why quote me? To set up a counterpoint? Did I not make the very same points?

I wasn't arguing with you, I was trying to expand your point. You mentioned mostly Germany, I was mentioning Japan.

As Sword of Geddon said, nobody's mean

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I'm fairly certain someone will take this unit eventually. Its just to cool of an idea to pass up...

 

[Symphony D.]

Knights largely became obsolete because their was no way to make armor thick enough to protect from bullets and still be practical on the battlefield. A similiar thing happened with the Samurai, in that they largely moved off the battlefield and into bereucratic roles.

Not entirely true. Guns were, near the end of the Sengoku period, just as vital a part of a Samurai's arsenal as the sword and the bow.

The main reasons for the downfall of the Samurai were two-fold. First, the end of the Sengoku era brought about a unified Japan and under the Tokugawa Shogunate virtually all major conflict ceased - not much point in having highly trained, expensive to maintain warriors if there's no fighting to be done. Second, the Samurai were essentially a parasite class in such a (relatively) warless society. They didn't contribute anything, and were somewhat of a threat to the government (see also: Satsuma Rebellion at the beginning of the Meiji Era).

If, for whatever reason, the class itself had survived, it would probably lose the angle of nobility and become more like some sort of elite warrior caste - maybe not unlike some highly ritualized version of today's special forces?

How bout this: give him a front mask that is a gas mask (so he can go in anywhere), a katana, a short-katana (can't remember the term offhand) bayonet extension to his carbine, a slightly stylized helmet, and a prominent nationalist symbol on his chest (he's supposed to be his people's ubermensch and to scare the opposition, like the deathsheads on the SS).

You know, that's not all that bad of an idea. Having both Katana and Wakizashi would be fairly pointless though, so giving him one or the other (a Wakizashi could probably be used simultaneously with a small firearm like a pistol) would work. The gas mask is a good idea though, because it could be stylizied to look like one of the demon mask faceplates some Samurai had on their armor. It'd be a minor touch that could be used as psychological warfare - a sort of storm trooper or, like I said earlier, special forces.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Indeed. I'd imagine Samurai would become both Special Forces, as well as Elite Guards for the Emperior(Kind of like Musketeers, or the US Secret Service). Imagine being a soldier in the darkness of the trenches and seeing a Demon coming at you(Not really a demon, but an Industrial-Era Samurai)

This idea just keeps getting better and better..

 

[Symphony D.]

Okay, here's a pretty quick fix idea.

The work that Kinboat's Industrial Legionary is based on provides a pretty good place to start from, conceptually. Change the uniform a little so it reflects something a bit more akin to WWII or so Japanese uniform. This wouldn't be so important since a lot of detail gets lost at the scale difference.

Now move the Gladius to the other side of the uniform and replace it with an Officer's sword (IJA swords, although shaped like a Katana or Tachi, were built differently [no wavy edge] that can be used for a Banzai charge death animation or some such). Then give him a rifle, light MG, or SMG of some sort, and lastly do the head detail. Emulating the style of the Legionary art, make the most prominent difference the helmet. Modernizing this slightly would work quite well. I wasn't able to find a good image of one of the faceplates but this includes an alright one. Simply take the demon faceplate concept and merge it with a suitably evil looking gas mask and you're in business (more angular eyes, concealed filters in the mask, geared a slight bit more to style of functionality).

Finish it off by giving him gloves or some such to prevent skin irritation in a chemical attack and various other assorted pouches, grenades, etc. It wouldn't be all that hard to pull off given a bit of time and skill.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Great work coming up with the unit's appearance Symphony! I wonder if anyone will pick up the unit though..

 

[Kal-el]

this guy isn't really what you are looking for, but it might help inspire.