Upon a Geographical Interpretation of the Scramble for Africa...

[True_Candyman]

So one of the new scenarios is the scramble for Africa. We can endlessly speculate all we like but one of the most useful tools for that is likely a map.

Here's one I made earlier

From this map i say we can likely deduce 3 things:

Firstly, potential African civs involved. I've marked on the locations of the current civs that are based in Africa to give an indication of where is not currently represented. As you can see there is a VERY large whole, certainly large enough for more than 1 civ, potentially even 3 or 4. What could they be...

Secondly, potential natural wonders involved. In all liklihood they will be spread fairly evenly, and positioned not only where African powers but also European powers have a shout at getting them. Which ones could they be...

Thirdly, potential European civs involved. Clearly they'll be wanting to include all the main culprits. But so far we are lacking 3 of them: Portugal, Belgium and Italy.
I think that which of these civs, if not all, are involved is dependant on which African civs so they can play off them at least somewhat historically accurately.

There may be even more you can take from that map than me, feel free to share your ideas. But i feel like this could lead to some constructive discussion that could also be relevant to the main game beyond the scenario.

 

[Art Grin]

African civs they'll definitely add are going to be someone in South Africa(most likely Zulu) and in central Africa(probably Kongo).
Scenario wise the Europeans will probably start with a foothold on Africa.
My guesses would be:
France starts out in Algeria.
England will probably start out at Cape Town or Egypt.
Portugal in Angola.
Germany in Tanzania.
Maybe there'll be some Ottomans in Libya.
Spain in Morocco.
Belgium in the Congo.
Italy in Somalia.

 

[bcaiko]

Italy.

Italy could easily be represented by Rome. Also, they really weren't super important in the scramble for Africa.

 

[Art Grin]

Italy could easily be represented by Rome. Also, they really weren't super important in the scramble for Africa.

Spoiler :

The map disagrees.
But you are right, they'll most likely be a renamed Rome and Belgium will be renamed Netherlands.

 

[JanghanHong]

Songhai and Carthage don't exist by Scramble of Africa. Segou was in a way a successor state to Songhai and it's about the same area but smaller and a lot less influential.

I actually don't think Carthage will show up. Even though it's where the Barbary states were, having the woman leader appear as the leader of the Barbary states will be awkward, nor does the UA fit. I think Ottomans will show up here actually, it was technically their empire before the French carved it out.


I doubt that natural wonders are so that Europeans have to find them before Africans do, they'll probably just have to find it before other Europeans do.


My guess for civ is:

Europeans: French, British, German, Belgian (as a scenario civ), Portuguese, Italy (scenario civ)

Africans: Algerian Barbary States (Ottomans), Segou (Songhai), Ashanti (scenario civ), Kanem Bornu (possible new), Kongo (possible new), Ethiopia and Egypt as is, Zulu (possible new), Malagasy (scenario civ or retrofitted Polynesia), Swahili (possible new, or cluster of city-states).


The biggest players were definitely the French and the British. Belgium, Germany, Italy and Portugal secondary roles. Netherlands might even appear as bits of South Africa.

Possibilities: Spain might appear as a non-playable civ that controls Spain and Morocco, it didn't do much, but the area is empty otherwise.

 

[JanghanHong]

Spoiler :

The map disagrees.
But you are right, they'll most likely be a renamed Rome and Belgium will be renamed Netherlands.

this maps is sort of misleading because they held Ethiopia for 4 years, and the war wasn't over, so the convention is that Ethiopia was never colonized.

Also, since Kongo has a lot of marshes, I don't think the Dutch will simply replace the Belgians unless their UA is changed. It might be hilarious seeing rivers of skittles in the centre of Africa.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Keep in mind that many of the civs in the main game will almost certainly not appear in the scenario (Carthage for example). In addition, Firaxis has shown essentially zero interest in spreading out geographic diversity outside of a scenario. Because of that, if they wanted Morocco to be in, for example, there's no roadblock there because Carthage wouldn't be in the scenario.

In other words, it's a good idea, but there's too many uncertainties to get much from it.

 

[True_Candyman]

Songhai and Carthage don't exist by Scramble of Africa. Segou was in a way a successor state to Songhai and it's about the same area but smaller and a lot less influential.

I actually don't think Carthage will show up. Even though it's where the Barbary states were, having the woman leader appear as the leader of the Barbary states will be awkward, nor does the UA fit. I think Ottomans will show up here actually, it was technically their empire before the French carved it out.


I doubt that natural wonders are so that Europeans have to find them before Africans do, they'll probably just have to find it before other Europeans do.


My guess for civ is:

Europeans: French, British, German, Belgian (as a scenario civ), Portuguese, Italy (scenario civ)

Africans: Algerian Barbary States (Ottomans), Segou (Songhai), Ashanti (scenario civ), Kanem Bornu (possible new), Kongo (possible new), Ethiopia and Egypt as is, Zulu (possible new), Malagasy (scenario civ or retrofitted Polynesia), Swahili (possible new, or cluster of city-states).


The biggest players were definitely the French and the British. Belgium, Germany, Italy and Portugal secondary roles. Netherlands might even appear as bits of South Africa.

Possibilities: Spain might appear as a non-playable civ that controls Spain and Morocco, it didn't do much, but the area is empty otherwise.

I agree on the Barbary states idea, you have a good point. Fits incredibly well with the whole Barbary corsairs UA of theirs too... I basically think North africa will be an easy job for them.

As for Southern Africa i think you're onto some good ideas too. I'm thinking there definitely will be an east cost civ (Swahili) but i'm not so sure about the malagasy, that may just be incorporated into eastern africa. South Africa will no doubt have the Zulu. Central Africa will likely have the Kongo and i feel like their should be a gold coast civ too. Kanem Bornu would fit nicely there i suppose.

 

[JanghanHong]

I think the civs will be clearly categorized into Europe, Africa, and Third Party.


Egypt, bits of Netherlands representing Afrikaans in South Africa shouldn't be considered an African civ if invading them as European power doesn't give diplomatic hits.


Also, America might appear as a single city in Liberia, it was founded by freed slaves after the civil war after all. America finds its way into everything.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Also, America might appear as a single city in Liberia, it was founded by freed slaves after the civil war after all. America finds its way into everything.

Actually it was before the Civil War. The capital of Liberia is called Monrovia because James Monroe was the president when it was founded.

 

[JanghanHong]

Actually it was before the Civil War. The capital of Liberia is called Monrovia because James Monroe was the president when it was founded.

yeah, I was reading more about it, 1822, wow, that's older than Italy or Germany.


Liberia should have Django-themed UU so Liberia can kick the European colonialists out of Africa in the name of Freedom.

 

[apocalypse105]

Pretty obious zulu will be in the game.



It would history be unaccurate and to see the netherlands control kongo.So either :

civ kongo in the game
Civ Belgium in the game

 

[Colmar]

I'm guessing that Liberia will be a city state, to reflect that it was untouched but not particularly active or notable. Ideally, I'd like Kongo, Zulu, and Swahili to really cover all the geographic bases. What I do see happening is a couple of modified American native civs being used. (Maybe Polynesia for Swahili/Madagascar, if they had any hand in Comoros, Seychelles, and Mauritius?)

 

[AriochIV]

Since the scenario is going to be played on a dynamically-generated map, how things are "spread out" on the historical map wouldn't seem to be particularly relevant.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm rather confused by the dynamic map concept. Some interviews seemed to say that the whole continent would be randomly generated while others seemed to indicate that just the interior would be randomly generated so that you can't bee-line to the locations of the natural wonders that you memorized.

 

[aluelkdf]

I don't think America should be part of this scenario at all. Liberia was an independent nation, not a colony or a territory or anything. They would be good as a city state.

 

[JanghanHong]

I'm really hoping Victoria Falls will be in the game. I've been using Fountain of Youth to represent Niagara Falls on my North America map and it's overpowering.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't think America should be part of this scenario at all. Liberia was an independent nation, not a colony or a territory or anything. They would be good as a city state.

It was founded in 1822 but didn't become independent until 1847. For the duration inbetween it was a colony of the US. It was settled by free blacks from the US. The organization who founded it was called the American Colonization Society.

But I would agree that the US was a bit player in Africa. If Liberia is an entity in the scenario, it should be a city-state.

 

[nokmirt]

I'm rather confused by the dynamic map concept. Some interviews seemed to say that the whole continent would be randomly generated while others seemed to indicate that just the interior would be randomly generated so that you can't bee-line to the locations of the natural wonders that you memorized.

It would most likely just be the resources that are placed dynamically. The scenario is really the scramble for resources.

 

[JanghanHong]

It would most likely just be the resources that are placed dynamically. The scenario is really the scramble for resources.

Rubber might comeback, although not in the main game as rubber became obsolete with development of organic chemistry in real life.


meanwhile, Coffee, Vanilla, and Chocolate might be in the scenario, coffee might even became part of the main game luxury.