Flintlock1415
Emperor
Sounds cool! But would the units be like modern Barbarian, or would they have some other (spy-like) function?
[US Army] Special Deluxe
- Thread starter Flintlock1415
- Start date
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Modern Barbs. Or they could be used as a flavor unit for the barbs.
Edgecrusher
King
I have been trying to think of a way to incorporate it as a Hero for the Wonder Unit's mod. Having a hard time though.
The issues I am having seem to stem around the fact that Civil issues don't play a major role in Civ. (like crime, police departments, fire departments, and such). Those kinds of things are lumped into generic terms such as Happiness/Health/Maintenance and the Events, which cause random havoc because of fires, riots, explosions, crime waves and such. In addition, playing civ, you are taking up the role of Emperor and General of the Empire you are playing. The things "people" do in everyday life aren't a necessary part of the game.
Thats actually one of my beefs with the corporations. I always felt the players/ai's should not have any influence on them, what so ever. I felt they should be founded and spread randomly to cities and civs that have the necessary resources and the tollerance to accomidate them. The Players should only have the ability to remove them (at an expense), or accomidate them to suppliment their master plan. Kind of like another issue to deal with. Similar to how the America/China/Soviet Union puts up road blocks for certain business from developing a base in their nation. Others they let do what they do and work with them. Maybe with the exception of an Economic Civic that "allows construction of the executive". this could symbolize, state own businesses.
With all that said, 1 Idea I did have was to use the "Mobster" in conjunction with the corporation system as sort of a Corporate Crime Boss, spreading crime rings the same way Religions/Corporations are spread. The catch is the "corporation" is only "suppose" to be spread to rival Civs. The corporation would consume a luxury resource(s)(perhaps gold, silver, or gems) and give a decrease wealth per resource consumed (.5 or so?), all while giving wealth to the HQ per city that has this "corporation". One downfall, is the city that has the HQ would also suffer the same negative backlash but if used correctly, thats the only city that has a problem.
To me that representes what a crime ring would do. For example the Mafia in NYC, decreases the "wealth" of NYC beause the city has to spend $$ to combat the crime that targets resources (gold, silver, gems?). The Mafia still exists though and still makes $$ (the wealth that the HQ City would get). In addition, the loss of these 3 luxury resources would have a negative affect on the happiness of the city, loosing the happiness bonus associated with these resources. This ties in because a city with crime = unhappy citizens. Unhappy citizens cause decrease in production and growth. etc...
The unit itself would mirror an executive.
-Always Hostile - giving civs a chance to stop the Mobster from spreading crime.
-Invisible? - can make it invisible and only be seen by a new special defence unit that all civs have access to (say National Guard, a unit that I am going to incorporate in the next update anyway).
-Limit of 1 at any given time.
must have the HQ to be built.
Lastly, if the AI "knows" how to use this, this could be incorporated as a modern "Barbarian" system to disrupt civilization. Obviously it requires a Barbarian city. I dont really like the idea of it being a modern barbarian "military" unit, simply because Mobsters, no matter how sophisticated, will never be able to take down a professionally trained army.
Anyway, thats enough of my rant. My only question is if the AI would "know" how to use it. (i.e. NOT spread it to their own cities, but try and spread to rivals).
The issues I am having seem to stem around the fact that Civil issues don't play a major role in Civ. (like crime, police departments, fire departments, and such). Those kinds of things are lumped into generic terms such as Happiness/Health/Maintenance and the Events, which cause random havoc because of fires, riots, explosions, crime waves and such. In addition, playing civ, you are taking up the role of Emperor and General of the Empire you are playing. The things "people" do in everyday life aren't a necessary part of the game.
Thats actually one of my beefs with the corporations. I always felt the players/ai's should not have any influence on them, what so ever. I felt they should be founded and spread randomly to cities and civs that have the necessary resources and the tollerance to accomidate them. The Players should only have the ability to remove them (at an expense), or accomidate them to suppliment their master plan. Kind of like another issue to deal with. Similar to how the America/China/Soviet Union puts up road blocks for certain business from developing a base in their nation. Others they let do what they do and work with them. Maybe with the exception of an Economic Civic that "allows construction of the executive". this could symbolize, state own businesses.
With all that said, 1 Idea I did have was to use the "Mobster" in conjunction with the corporation system as sort of a Corporate Crime Boss, spreading crime rings the same way Religions/Corporations are spread. The catch is the "corporation" is only "suppose" to be spread to rival Civs. The corporation would consume a luxury resource(s)(perhaps gold, silver, or gems) and give a decrease wealth per resource consumed (.5 or so?), all while giving wealth to the HQ per city that has this "corporation". One downfall, is the city that has the HQ would also suffer the same negative backlash but if used correctly, thats the only city that has a problem.
To me that representes what a crime ring would do. For example the Mafia in NYC, decreases the "wealth" of NYC beause the city has to spend $$ to combat the crime that targets resources (gold, silver, gems?). The Mafia still exists though and still makes $$ (the wealth that the HQ City would get). In addition, the loss of these 3 luxury resources would have a negative affect on the happiness of the city, loosing the happiness bonus associated with these resources. This ties in because a city with crime = unhappy citizens. Unhappy citizens cause decrease in production and growth. etc...
The unit itself would mirror an executive.
-Always Hostile - giving civs a chance to stop the Mobster from spreading crime.
-Invisible? - can make it invisible and only be seen by a new special defence unit that all civs have access to (say National Guard, a unit that I am going to incorporate in the next update anyway).
-Limit of 1 at any given time.
must have the HQ to be built.
Lastly, if the AI "knows" how to use this, this could be incorporated as a modern "Barbarian" system to disrupt civilization. Obviously it requires a Barbarian city. I dont really like the idea of it being a modern barbarian "military" unit, simply because Mobsters, no matter how sophisticated, will never be able to take down a professionally trained army.
Anyway, thats enough of my rant. My only question is if the AI would "know" how to use it. (i.e. NOT spread it to their own cities, but try and spread to rivals).
Flintlock1415
Emperor
Its good to see this unit is sparking so much creative ideas. 
I think the spread of this should be done more automatically than religions/corporations, since, like you said, the Government doesn't control the crime. For example, the crime boss would be a barbarian unit. There could alsp be a formula for the spread of crime, i.e. size of the civ (i.e. Russia would have a lot more places to fight crime than say Belgium), technologies, military garrison, civics, etc. This would most likely entail SDK work, or quite the hack job in Python.
For the police/national guard unit, I know Rabbit White made an awesome riot policeman or you could even use my Army version.
Whichever way this would be implemented, it would be an awesome modcomp.
I think the spread of this should be done more automatically than religions/corporations, since, like you said, the Government doesn't control the crime. For example, the crime boss would be a barbarian unit. There could alsp be a formula for the spread of crime, i.e. size of the civ (i.e. Russia would have a lot more places to fight crime than say Belgium), technologies, military garrison, civics, etc. This would most likely entail SDK work, or quite the hack job in Python.
For the police/national guard unit, I know Rabbit White made an awesome riot policeman or you could even use my Army version.
Whichever way this would be implemented, it would be an awesome modcomp.
Edgecrusher
King
I know this doesn't really fit the description of the Mod, but I was thinking of incorporating 10 new units.
7 Unique Religious Units that appear in the middle ages. 1 for each religion. The most common example is the Crusader for Christianity. All 7 are a little weaker then their "equivilient" during the age, but have a specified role.
Crusader --> Attacking Cities
Mamluk --> Pillaging & countering Crusaders
Zealot --> Defence & countering Mamluk's
Monk --> builds new improvement called "monestary" which acts similar to a forest preserve, and can be built on peaks.
the other 3 I forgot how to spell but:
Hinduism --> "Skirmish" i.e. attack but not "kill" type unit
Taoism --> Medic-esque
Confucianism --> Minor Great Artist, i.e. spreads culture.
After those 7 are impliment, I will have a "hero" version of all 7, which would be a slight upgrade.
in the Industrial Age, these units upgrade to 1 of 2 units, a "Terrorist" or whatever P.C. term works best and a National Guardsman.
Terrorist = Invisible, Always Hostile "Missile" unit that causes collateral damage.
National Guardsman = weaker infantry, but can "see" the terrorist unit and thus counter attack and eliminate before the unit causes collateral damage.
Lastly a 3rd Modern unit is/was impliment for testing purposes
Special Forces = an upgrade of the Marine, Paratrooper, that can also see and eliminate terrorist threats and thwart rival spies.
When I actually "play" Civ, I have these 10 units, and I am curious what others would suggest for balancing.
Anyway I only bring it up, because a Crime Boss, would fit into the "theme", which is alternative supplimental warfare options.
7 Unique Religious Units that appear in the middle ages. 1 for each religion. The most common example is the Crusader for Christianity. All 7 are a little weaker then their "equivilient" during the age, but have a specified role.
Crusader --> Attacking Cities
Mamluk --> Pillaging & countering Crusaders
Zealot --> Defence & countering Mamluk's
Monk --> builds new improvement called "monestary" which acts similar to a forest preserve, and can be built on peaks.
the other 3 I forgot how to spell
but:Hinduism --> "Skirmish" i.e. attack but not "kill" type unit
Taoism --> Medic-esque
Confucianism --> Minor Great Artist, i.e. spreads culture.
After those 7 are impliment, I will have a "hero" version of all 7, which would be a slight upgrade.
in the Industrial Age, these units upgrade to 1 of 2 units, a "Terrorist" or whatever P.C. term works best and a National Guardsman.
Terrorist = Invisible, Always Hostile "Missile" unit that causes collateral damage.
National Guardsman = weaker infantry, but can "see" the terrorist unit and thus counter attack and eliminate before the unit causes collateral damage.
Lastly a 3rd Modern unit is/was impliment for testing purposes
Special Forces = an upgrade of the Marine, Paratrooper, that can also see and eliminate terrorist threats and thwart rival spies.
When I actually "play" Civ, I have these 10 units, and I am curious what others would suggest for balancing.
Anyway I only bring it up, because a Crime Boss, would fit into the "theme", which is alternative supplimental warfare options.
Flintlock1415
Emperor
Okay, now I understand where this comes from. It seems that only a corrupt gov't would make use of a terrorist or mob boss unit. Maybe the units could be enabled by Civics? i.e. a strong Democracy would never use terrorism, but a weak or authoritarian one might.
Sorry if I'm screwing with the idea of your mod, these are just my 2¢.
ps - I like the idea of expanded warfare, esp. the religous units. I had a small idea of my own to expand war in Civ, and I came up with a modification for the mounted units upgrade line.
(slower, stronger units)
Chariot-->Knight-->Dragoon or Curriaser-->Tank
(Quicker, weaker units)
Horseman-->Horse Archer-->Cavalry-->Gunship or Humvee
Sorry if I'm screwing with the idea of your mod, these are just my 2¢.
ps - I like the idea of expanded warfare, esp. the religous units. I had a small idea of my own to expand war in Civ, and I came up with a modification for the mounted units upgrade line.
(slower, stronger units)
Chariot-->Knight-->Dragoon or Curriaser-->Tank
(Quicker, weaker units)
Horseman-->Horse Archer-->Cavalry-->Gunship or Humvee
Edgecrusher
King
give all the 2 cents you want, or have. The more ideas the better.
I also use a modified mounted line.
Traditional Mounted: Anti-Artillery (Bonus vs Siege, Flank vs Siege)
Horseman --> Knight --> Cavalry --> Motorized Infantry --> Gunship/Mech Infantry
"Skirmish" (-50% City Attack, +50% Withdrawel) use to soften up a unit/stack before the main attack force attacks
Horse Archer --> Cuirassier --> Motorized Infantry or Armored Car --> Armored Car upgrades to ACV, Motorized Infantry to Gunship/Mech Infantry.
"Other"
Chariot: Early mounted to counter Axeman/barbs
War Elephant: Medieval mounted to counter the Knight
I also use a modified mounted line.
Traditional Mounted: Anti-Artillery (Bonus vs Siege, Flank vs Siege)
Horseman --> Knight --> Cavalry --> Motorized Infantry --> Gunship/Mech Infantry
"Skirmish" (-50% City Attack, +50% Withdrawel) use to soften up a unit/stack before the main attack force attacks
Horse Archer --> Cuirassier --> Motorized Infantry or Armored Car --> Armored Car upgrades to ACV, Motorized Infantry to Gunship/Mech Infantry.
"Other"
Chariot: Early mounted to counter Axeman/barbs
War Elephant: Medieval mounted to counter the Knight
