Fayadi
Technocrat
Well (no harm) man we are going to compare China or US (the 2 greatest country )who contributed the more in the history of mankind?Why?
US vs China
- Thread starter Fayadi
- Start date
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
THE TWO GREATEST COUNTRIES????????? 
On what basis?
On what basis?
Fayadi
Technocrat
Hmmmm I was wrong should I say SuperPower instead?
Fayadi
Technocrat
They are indeed great,look at their achievements.....Thats why i want to compare!
Original thread is here in the Civ3 forum : -
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7189
Not sure why he wants to restart the exact same thread and poll in Off-Topic.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7189
Not sure why he wants to restart the exact same thread and poll in Off-Topic.
Fayadi
Technocrat
I wanted to restart because my "ally" had complained US should not be put with West and China should not be put with East.Anyway i am correcting the mistakes i have in the original one!
Fayadi
Technocrat
I put it on Off Topic Forum because i just discovered it,the people here are more interested in these kind of stuffs!
drake
Bring it
What a stupid poll 
Why dont you tell us your opinion.
Why dont you tell us your opinion.
Fayadi
Technocrat
My opinion is that China has made the greatest contribution,I am challenging the US because of a person called Brandon749 inflamed me!My comparison here is to get support to boo at him!
He repeatedly saying US is the best ,so I think it will be interesting if i compare US with China
This is the crazy thing he says:
"Lets face it, America is the greatest civilization (in real life) ever. It probably deserves all of the civ speciific abilities, but that would unbalance the game."Brandon
There are still more crazy things
"We are nation that is a Civilization. WE defined the culture in the 20th century. WE currently produce the greatest minds in the world and the best and brightest from throughout the world come to America for their education. WE are a civilization.
In determining whether a nation is a civilization you ask yourself not how long its been but what impact its had. What was the first modern democracy? The United States. What has been the hegemon for the past 60 years? The United States. According to Henry Kissinger, in his Diplomacy, "no country has influenced international relations as decisively and at the same time as ambivalently as the United States." By the end of WWII, The United States was so powerful that 35 percent of the entire worlds economic production was American. (Kissinger) What other nation can claim this? Perhaps Great Britain in the 19th century, but that it. The United States has exported so many inventions, so many innovations, and so much culture that if it isn't a civilization, I don't know what is?
One person said something about the Americans being more expansionist than anything else. This is pattently false. The United States never settled colonies; its only expansion was a westward migration. His claim that the United States ceded from Britain because of expanionism is only partially true. This arguement comes from the unpopular "Proclamation Line of 1763" in which Enland curtailed much westward expansion beyond the Appalachians. The Stamp Tax, the Sugar Act, the bail-out of the British East India Tea Company, mercantilism, the quartering act, the Intolerable acts, and the Proclamation acts each of which challenged colonial rights to commerce and the fruit of their labor (and civil liberties) were far more erksome.
Anyone who claims that the United States hasn't become a Civilization needs to read their history better.
Let me address why the Americans (based on history not gameplay) should get all the csa's.
1. Militaristic: For sixty years the United States has been the military hegemon and for 20 years before that it was a significant power. Also we are and to my knowledge always have been the most armed society in the world in terms of personal gun ownership. And our gun companies are the largest in the world.
2. Expanionist: Although I do not agree with the earlier commenter that expanionism is the primary force in American policies, I do agree that it is very important.
3. Scientific: Uh c'mon weve ruled the world in this area since the Civil War atleast. (eg telegraph, repeating weaponry, first flight, nukes, etc.)
4. Commercial: Since WWI we have been the richest nation on earth and (aside from one or two arabian oil nations) we are the riches per capita as well.
5. Industrious: Massive railroad construction massive farmland (workers working faster). And since the civil war, we've been able to rally the most effective war time economies ever; thats the real test of industrial capacity.
6. Religious: Everywhere in our docuements. Founding fathers quoted Bible more than anything else. The strenghth of our culture speaks well to this ability. "
So do u know the main reason i compare now?
He repeatedly saying US is the best ,so I think it will be interesting if i compare US with China
This is the crazy thing he says:
"Lets face it, America is the greatest civilization (in real life) ever. It probably deserves all of the civ speciific abilities, but that would unbalance the game."Brandon
There are still more crazy things
"We are nation that is a Civilization. WE defined the culture in the 20th century. WE currently produce the greatest minds in the world and the best and brightest from throughout the world come to America for their education. WE are a civilization.
In determining whether a nation is a civilization you ask yourself not how long its been but what impact its had. What was the first modern democracy? The United States. What has been the hegemon for the past 60 years? The United States. According to Henry Kissinger, in his Diplomacy, "no country has influenced international relations as decisively and at the same time as ambivalently as the United States." By the end of WWII, The United States was so powerful that 35 percent of the entire worlds economic production was American. (Kissinger) What other nation can claim this? Perhaps Great Britain in the 19th century, but that it. The United States has exported so many inventions, so many innovations, and so much culture that if it isn't a civilization, I don't know what is?
One person said something about the Americans being more expansionist than anything else. This is pattently false. The United States never settled colonies; its only expansion was a westward migration. His claim that the United States ceded from Britain because of expanionism is only partially true. This arguement comes from the unpopular "Proclamation Line of 1763" in which Enland curtailed much westward expansion beyond the Appalachians. The Stamp Tax, the Sugar Act, the bail-out of the British East India Tea Company, mercantilism, the quartering act, the Intolerable acts, and the Proclamation acts each of which challenged colonial rights to commerce and the fruit of their labor (and civil liberties) were far more erksome.
Anyone who claims that the United States hasn't become a Civilization needs to read their history better.
Let me address why the Americans (based on history not gameplay) should get all the csa's.
1. Militaristic: For sixty years the United States has been the military hegemon and for 20 years before that it was a significant power. Also we are and to my knowledge always have been the most armed society in the world in terms of personal gun ownership. And our gun companies are the largest in the world.
2. Expanionist: Although I do not agree with the earlier commenter that expanionism is the primary force in American policies, I do agree that it is very important.
3. Scientific: Uh c'mon weve ruled the world in this area since the Civil War atleast. (eg telegraph, repeating weaponry, first flight, nukes, etc.)
4. Commercial: Since WWI we have been the richest nation on earth and (aside from one or two arabian oil nations) we are the riches per capita as well.
5. Industrious: Massive railroad construction massive farmland (workers working faster). And since the civil war, we've been able to rally the most effective war time economies ever; thats the real test of industrial capacity.
6. Religious: Everywhere in our docuements. Founding fathers quoted Bible more than anything else. The strenghth of our culture speaks well to this ability. "
So do u know the main reason i compare now?
Cilpot
Pretentious Schmuck
But who contributed most in the history of mankind... Surley the USA has been the most influent nation in the recent 100 years, but China has existed a long time earlier than that...
I think the greek has contributed a lot to mankind with their philosophers...
I think the greek has contributed a lot to mankind with their philosophers...
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
This can be argued about for ever. No matter which attribute your chosen civilization ought to have, there will be arguments for and against, mostly, if not all, based on some interestingly bogus statistics.
Why are the English not a scientific civ? Apparently more acadenic papers are published in Britain every year than in any other country. I think it would be ridiculous for the English to be scientific rather than commercial despite the wonderful efforts of Stephenson, Darwin, Newton et al throughout time. Napoleon may have described the English as "a nation of shopkeepers", but this is not the only reason to make the civ commercial. The activities of the British East India Company and their contemporaries who were exploiting other cultures across the globe to make their shareholders rich for many years would support this too. But ultimately the decision was one made by Firaxis for gameplaying decisions and each player gets the option to alter these attributes with the game editor. Can we not extend the argument beyond its being rooted in a game and nothing more - please? People here may love their country more than others do, but this does not make the country fundamentally a better place than another. We should leave our prejudices out of Civ and remember that it has no bearing on world events. It's a bloody good game but nothing more. I am prejudiced against the Zulus because they have annoyed me in far too many games of Civ, but I am referring to the Civ under the green banner, and not the people of southern Africa. The current political climate has shaken up many people's assumptions about nationhood and encouraged a more prominent sense of patriotism but we should not push this in the faces of those who do not share our love of our country. Can we get rid of threads like this designed to foment nationalistic wrangling please?
Why are the English not a scientific civ? Apparently more acadenic papers are published in Britain every year than in any other country. I think it would be ridiculous for the English to be scientific rather than commercial despite the wonderful efforts of Stephenson, Darwin, Newton et al throughout time. Napoleon may have described the English as "a nation of shopkeepers", but this is not the only reason to make the civ commercial. The activities of the British East India Company and their contemporaries who were exploiting other cultures across the globe to make their shareholders rich for many years would support this too. But ultimately the decision was one made by Firaxis for gameplaying decisions and each player gets the option to alter these attributes with the game editor. Can we not extend the argument beyond its being rooted in a game and nothing more - please? People here may love their country more than others do, but this does not make the country fundamentally a better place than another. We should leave our prejudices out of Civ and remember that it has no bearing on world events. It's a bloody good game but nothing more. I am prejudiced against the Zulus because they have annoyed me in far too many games of Civ, but I am referring to the Civ under the green banner, and not the people of southern Africa. The current political climate has shaken up many people's assumptions about nationhood and encouraged a more prominent sense of patriotism but we should not push this in the faces of those who do not share our love of our country. Can we get rid of threads like this designed to foment nationalistic wrangling please?
Fayadi
Technocrat
Remember China has not yet reached its full potential ,every intelligent man describe China as a sleeping Dragon!Once they wake up they will rock the world!
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,455
This argument is rather silly,
It is more a case of childish "I'm bigger than you"!
No-one doubts China's power, They are a top class nation!
No-one doubt the USA, a mighty republic!
But no-one power rules our earth totally, such dreams are the
province of madmen and knee-jerkers! :crazyeyes
Also there are several hundred other unique cultures of planet
earth who will disagree with this east/west rivalry!
Think what the mighty powers can do as friends instead of
enemies!
Remember Bush's visit to China recently,
the east summit with all the other leaders?
The US and Chinese leaders had arms around each other
like buddies! That's the way it should be!
It is more a case of childish "I'm bigger than you"!
No-one doubts China's power, They are a top class nation!
No-one doubt the USA, a mighty republic!
But no-one power rules our earth totally, such dreams are the
province of madmen and knee-jerkers! :crazyeyes
Also there are several hundred other unique cultures of planet
earth who will disagree with this east/west rivalry!
Think what the mighty powers can do as friends instead of
enemies!
Remember Bush's visit to China recently,
the east summit with all the other leaders?
The US and Chinese leaders had arms around each other
like buddies! That's the way it should be!
Alcibiaties of Athenae
Imperator
Not thrilled with this one either, but it's a history question, so it's moved to the history forum.
Fayadi
Technocrat
34??it is impossible i think i am being pushed around by the moderatos?Man this place is for us to enjoy?The moderator changed the polling system?oooh no i think i will have less time coming here!It is bad.........We really hope the moderator wont interfere...
Fayadi
Technocrat
I was here round the clock and it suddenly jumped to 34.ooh dear have i offended the official?
Anyway ,behaviour like that by moderators will be probably send off all people who r big mouthed to share their ideas thats bad....
Anyway ,behaviour like that by moderators will be probably send off all people who r big mouthed to share their ideas thats bad....
animepornstar
Deity
but now they just rock tibet...
You posted a (or what turned into) a historical disucission, so it should rightfully be moved to the history forum. This one was a no brainer.
Fayadi
Technocrat
How bout the 34 votes for USA ,i was here round the clock and it suddenly jumped up with polls modified?If u r joking i am smiling,If u r serious , I am crying
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