and would a superpower let Taiwan sit happily a few tens of km offshore 
Well, for point 2), America is lucky it wasn't surrounded by powerful and dangerous and aggressive powers around it. Also it was the powerful, dangerous and aggressive nation in the Americas previously. Ask all the Native Americans who got killed as the US of A expanded westwards aggressively.Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
2. I for one remember Tianamen Square AND can recall in my history books the "Great Leap backwards" the "Cultural Revolution", the whole Kuomentang era and basically the poverty of the peasants throughout history...the fact that both the Japanese and Mongols wiped millions of Chinese off the face of the Earth. The FACT is that American citizens have suffered rarely from starvation or war.
P.S China is a backward country now...it has a GNP the size of Portugal and a population that is about 100 times larger
Well, the Chinese used gunpowder for fireworks; the Europeans used it to kill people and blow up stuff. If you find that so funny, well guess you do have a point here. Obviously Chinese are not as creative as Westerners when it comes to inventing new creative ways of killing people.Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
PLUS...Chinese influence hasn't been global...apart from restaurants...
IS there any great bonus in being the inventer of tech like the Chinese did that didn't benefit them so much as their enemies? Gunpowder...the Chinese REALLY benefitted from that
Originally posted by SKM
Well, the Chinese used gunpowder for fireworks; the Europeans used it to kill people and blow up stuff. If you find that so funny, well guess you do have a point here. Obviously Chinese are not as creative as Westerners when it comes to inventing new creative ways of killing people.
I was actually trying to be sarcastic. I feel that KoC is using a really inane example to compare the technological bent of Westerners and Chinese. Sorry if any hard feelings. Love you guys.Originally posted by jumbo2002
Perhaps because they were creative in the old ways of killing people? [punch]
Taking Sun Tzu pretty far out of context: "There are five types of incendiary attck: The first is to incinerate men....Now the army must know the five changes of fire in order to defend them at the astrologically appropriate times. Thus using fire to aid an attack is enlightened...."
Maybe the Europeans were just being enlightened?
(no, not that kind )
If you are talking about the Chinese invasion of Vietnam in 1978 (1976? not sure), well it was at the cost of 26000 dead Chinese and the benefit of occupying a few border posts. Deng Xiaoping was really trying to show his generals why the PLA needed to modernize and keep up with modern military doctrine, tactics and equipment I guess.
To put it diplomatically, I don't think you have really studied your history that closely. The Mongols didn't just enter Ukraine; they pushed westwards and hit Central Europe and Hungary. And why shld they lose face? Almost every nation lost to the Mongols incl the Chinese, except for the Mamelukes who managed to beat them back a bit and the Japanese, who had luck and weather on their side.
Originally posted by SKM
I was actually trying to be sarcastic. I feel that KoC is using a really inane example to compare the technological bent of Westerners and Chinese. Sorry if any hard feelings. Love you guys.
I'll be the first to admit that Chinese are just as inventive when it comes to war and killing ppl. Some day let me tell you about the machine-crossbow, firing lots more shots than an average crossbow. And also all the interesting stuff the Chinese used as projectiles in the cannons in their navies (Song to Yuan to early Ming).
Distance didn't mean that much to the Mongols. They could appear suddenly in Europe fr their base in Mongolia within months, on their hardy Mongolian ponies and surviving on mare milk and if necessary mare blood. The Mongols were hardy soldiers who had been conditioned by their environs to fight as very tough crack troops.
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