I disagree about France always getting crushed--in my current game as USA, they are tech and score leaders despite me conquering New Orleans. They control Italy, North Africa, Brazil(probably because Portugal didnt colonize after conquering Spain) and the Netherlands.
v1.983 - v1.483 - v1.183
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LukeUeda-Sarson
Prince
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The Mongolians were real powers in the Ethiopan game I just finished; 2nd in score for a good stretch of the time in the 19th century for instance. Didn't see them as in need of assistance.
The Vikings alos made plenty of cities, albeit not for some time.
Cheers, Luke
Same, At first i thought this would be worse for the game, however the more i play the better it is to be able to empower some nations w/o worring about them trading the techs to enemies.
Great additions, have been playing as egyptians and saw greece found (in seperate games) Knossos, byzantion, and various other balkan cities. Carthage founded Qart Hadasht in Spain. Babylon went on a city building/capture spree, conquering most all of the fertile cresent. And in another game the Hitties survived so i was able to conquer there city. Maya also founded Oaxaca. As Spain saw Arabia found Surt in Libya after Tripoli and Bangazi were destroyed.
Only thing ive noticed so far is cities in North Africa still being razed, Qart Hadasht and what ever the carthaginians call Tripoli got razed. the cities in Libya seemed to suffer a similar fate in 600 ad starts.
-Perceval-
Prince
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in 600 ad they are not(the only chance to them to get big score is that china collapse). And the vikings build only 2 cities in the most game i play in 600ad.
and to answer to thadian:
Me too i hate tech brokering, but i think just one or two tech more to aztec and incan will not create this phenomenon. This is just an historical question, because in the reality, they had techs(on their starting date) that they don't have when they begin in the game. And if aztec and incan resist more frequently(i demand just that they resist more frequently, not always), it will make that europeans will have less city than they are supposed to have, and that will reduce their techs research. And so make the game more equilibrate for other civ than europeans.
for example?
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
Greece!
I moved my settler on a boat away from europe with a funny idea, just to see what will happen. i like odd things, but on to the game! i am Pericles. i begin to uncover the area around me, but due to mass barbs, i stay in my "zone". Athenai is settled. I build first my work boat, then my warrior and cut to worker at city size 2. then i finish warrior 1 and build number 2, at city size 3 i build a settler and settle Argos. Libraries are my first priority.
Remember that starting boat? I just landed, and settled- in Korea! The chinese like me though. so what happened?
I kept them alive until 1530's AD - I pulled off no victory and no america to change to anytime soon. i had settled the island east of greece as well, and maintained peace with Egypt, Carthage. Rome didn't have the same idea. I was able to fend off their onslaught, but it was costly and i was in fear as the Arabs spawned. They spread islam to europe, and we all converted. Rome stood strong until it was decimated by barbarians and french. Vikings had 4 cities and stayed strong. Russia didn't go west at all, they went south toward the fertile crescent, and stopped just north of where Turkey would spawn. all through the game, russia has yet to go west of Moskva.
My beautiful city in Korea did quite well to support my civ. it was able to protect itself, and it did not really dampen me. it brought in some nice resources that Astronomy let me keep. the best thing is that i didn't get slaughtered by Germany or Turkey/Arabia. Japan became a superpower and extinguished Khmer almost immediately and warred china. i gave them my gally. My stability (economy) went to hell, and i couldn't figure it out. i started by releasing my korean city but no avail - it made things worse and i played 10 turns and did not recover. then i reloaded and tried some other things. It was not meant to be! But at least i was able to live until 1530's. this was by far my favorite game. i will start next as ethiopia or khmer.
PS
i LOVE being able to see the stability points! I loved it in RAND and i love it here as well.
I moved my settler on a boat away from europe with a funny idea, just to see what will happen. i like odd things, but on to the game! i am Pericles. i begin to uncover the area around me, but due to mass barbs, i stay in my "zone". Athenai is settled. I build first my work boat, then my warrior and cut to worker at city size 2. then i finish warrior 1 and build number 2, at city size 3 i build a settler and settle Argos. Libraries are my first priority.
Remember that starting boat? I just landed, and settled- in Korea! The chinese like me though. so what happened?
I kept them alive until 1530's AD - I pulled off no victory and no america to change to anytime soon. i had settled the island east of greece as well, and maintained peace with Egypt, Carthage. Rome didn't have the same idea. I was able to fend off their onslaught, but it was costly and i was in fear as the Arabs spawned. They spread islam to europe, and we all converted. Rome stood strong until it was decimated by barbarians and french. Vikings had 4 cities and stayed strong. Russia didn't go west at all, they went south toward the fertile crescent, and stopped just north of where Turkey would spawn. all through the game, russia has yet to go west of Moskva.
My beautiful city in Korea did quite well to support my civ. it was able to protect itself, and it did not really dampen me. it brought in some nice resources that Astronomy let me keep. the best thing is that i didn't get slaughtered by Germany or Turkey/Arabia. Japan became a superpower and extinguished Khmer almost immediately and warred china. i gave them my gally. My stability (economy) went to hell, and i couldn't figure it out. i started by releasing my korean city but no avail - it made things worse and i played 10 turns and did not recover. then i reloaded and tried some other things. It was not meant to be! But at least i was able to live until 1530's. this was by far my favorite game. i will start next as ethiopia or khmer.
PS
i LOVE being able to see the stability points! I loved it in RAND and i love it here as well.
Ekolite
Deity
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- 5,451
I'm pretty sure I have the latest RFC d/led but I'm not entirely sure, even though the Readme says it is. Is there anything definative and specific that I can see in game to prove it one way or another? My PC has had trouble downloading mods before...
-Perceval-
Prince
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paper, administration, music, theater, construction.
But i don't demand so much techs, that will certainly affect the game's balance. Please just find something who can make them less weak than they are in each game i play. Your mod is almost perfect! It just need to correct vikings bug, mongolian strenght and in my opinion make incans and aztec just a little bit stronger than they are.Ah and maybe make that shiraz and tikal don't be always destroy by barbs(srry for bad english)
thadian said
Si LOVE being able to see the stability points! I loved it in RAND and i love it here as well.
Me too!
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
I have a better idea percival. The problem aztec's face is not the reality of their demise but they have no option to resist- because of the barbarians. i would give the Aztecs 1-2 more starting jaguars and a little less barb spawn in USA. this lets them remain primitive (as they should) and spend less time surviving the barb rush. if Monty doesn't spend all his time barely surviving barb attacks or making play mistakes...
(3 barb dog soldiers in his borders, monty has 9 jaguars that he doesn't send up to fortify or defend, like he chooses to just let his city burn)
then he has the time to develop his techs and succeed as a nation. Think about Mexico. After the Aztec's collapsed, and they became a "vassal" to spain, they gained a "modernization" of sorts and organized themselves into a country that is united and capable of being independent. Maybe a UHV should be not about preventing the impossible (or what relies on euro-war's), it should focus on escaping vassalage.
The REAL Mexico obtained its modern identity when they became their own country and escaped vassalage. i don't know much about how/why they became a free nation, but they did. and if we want good aztecs, we need something around the 1600's to provide them nationhood, or the ability to not "pay tributes" as a vassal. they SHOULD collapse. but by the time america stabilizes, something SHOULD be there to compete with them.
I apologize this was longer than intended, but the Aztecs should have more troops to start with and a lesser cost to produce Jaguars so they can hold back the barbs easier and really focus on whats important. At some point, maybe when america spawns, Aztec should be called "Mexico" and become aggressive toward America. it would also be better if they are independent states at this time.
Feedback please?
(3 barb dog soldiers in his borders, monty has 9 jaguars that he doesn't send up to fortify or defend, like he chooses to just let his city burn)
then he has the time to develop his techs and succeed as a nation. Think about Mexico. After the Aztec's collapsed, and they became a "vassal" to spain, they gained a "modernization" of sorts and organized themselves into a country that is united and capable of being independent. Maybe a UHV should be not about preventing the impossible (or what relies on euro-war's), it should focus on escaping vassalage.
The REAL Mexico obtained its modern identity when they became their own country and escaped vassalage. i don't know much about how/why they became a free nation, but they did. and if we want good aztecs, we need something around the 1600's to provide them nationhood, or the ability to not "pay tributes" as a vassal. they SHOULD collapse. but by the time america stabilizes, something SHOULD be there to compete with them.
I apologize this was longer than intended, but the Aztecs should have more troops to start with and a lesser cost to produce Jaguars so they can hold back the barbs easier and really focus on whats important. At some point, maybe when america spawns, Aztec should be called "Mexico" and become aggressive toward America. it would also be better if they are independent states at this time.
Feedback please?
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
according to the civ engine, their mythical structures were built with Masonry. music/theater? nah, they werent cultural musicians and thinkers. their sports were big so as long as they can start with ball parks, thats ok. that takes care of construction, music/theater. as for administration, heriditary rule/slavery takes that and i am unaware of them using paper?
Walliard
WW007D?
Problem with giving them Paper is the civ tech tree: you either have to give them CS or Theology, neither of which fits them. I wouldn't be opposed to giving them construction, however.
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
i am - they built their things with masonry, not construction, on civ terms. giving them construction says their earlier buildings were more advanced than earlier babylon-egypt buildings (in a way). Theology lets them have theocracy which if they could have some kind of pagan religion, would let them defend against barbs better. if there were a fitting religion for them, it would work!
they were theocrats, they called sacrifices every day. they would also be able to fend off the barb rushes better without giving them what they didn't have. but on the flip side, they would have no state religion to use theocracy. Maybe if their unique power included something about getting state religion benefits without a state religion? i know its not the best idea, but it solves the problem.
they were theocrats, they called sacrifices every day. they would also be able to fend off the barb rushes better without giving them what they didn't have. but on the flip side, they would have no state religion to use theocracy. Maybe if their unique power included something about getting state religion benefits without a state religion? i know its not the best idea, but it solves the problem.
yea theres ways to tell. Does the ocean look kind of different, thats probaly the easiest. or it should say in the menu 3000bc unlocked and another one just 3000bc, same for 600ad. Also if you start as spain and recieve a trireme then you have it. If you still cant tell, Babylonia should conquer the mideast, and greece should have three cities, or possesions in italy or eastern balkans. Carthage might have something in spain. hope this is helpful, if not i could give some things.
Walliard
WW007D?
Check the third Roman UHV in the Civilopedia. If it's "no cities lost to Barbarians before 1000 AD", you have the new one. If it's 1400 AD, it's an older one.
Walliard
WW007D?
Babylon: Still an exercise in futility, but definitely possible in the current patch.
*happily checks off list*
*happily checks off list*
hendriksen
Chieftain
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- Sep 6, 2008
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- 32
Could someone give me some tips on the Persian Uhv, i'm still stuck at it on monarch difficulty
In wich city to build the pyramids? Should I expand early on into India and Greece, or should I wait for my research to complete mathematics?
In wich city to build the pyramids? Should I expand early on into India and Greece, or should I wait for my research to complete mathematics?
The Q-Meister
King
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- Jun 22, 2005
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- 774
Hi. You should see the 1.83 positives and negatives thread where a couple of us discuss the Persian UHV in detail as well as of course the strategy guide in Rhye's wiki.
The Persian UHV can seem daunting at first and it definitely takes a few tries to become good with it. Here are some things I did in my games that may be useful to you:
1. Only keep the Babylonian cities you need - IMO this means Babylon and Shush which flips to you. Raze Ninua as the culture in the last 2 cities pretty much covers most of what Ninua will do , added expense and adds more cities to stability. Also raze As-Sur but keep of course Jerusalem for the religious wonder.
2. Greece should be taken but try to do it opportunistically: Greece usually has barb trouble and may even collapse before turn 150. Nice strategy is when you're busy with Palestine and Egypt, sign OB with Greece, send a galley to investigate to see how strong they are.
3. When to invade India is tricky; you want to do it soon as ideally you'd like India to build at least 1 Holy Shrine for you although it's not always possible. But you don't want to wait too long as you do need some time for the borders to expand and possibly pump out a Great Prophet. You do not want to invade India before they have built at least 1 other city than Delhi. The more cities they build the less you have to settle as you want the subcontinent filled out ASAP, settlers take time and conquest helps your stability. Also you want some free workers and improvements to be made so don't raze improvements.
4. Shush should be your big wonder city. Also Parsa and Babylon can do some as well. You may need a good port city to build the Great Lighthouse if Egypt hasn't done it and in my recent game I used the Indian city of Vikhampton. When I conquered it, India had already made the improvements so it was already growing nicely without me spending any additional time on it.
5. If you're desperate for money, raze the villages in Egypt.
6. As tempting as it may be, don't try to build a huge army, too big a drain on the economy. Try to be an efficient conquerer and make only the units to get the job done. I think 6-8 units should be about right in most cases, maybe less in India or if Egypt hasn't mined the bronze. For India I like 4 Immortals and 2 Archers, the Immortals go straight for Delhi. When the archers arrive they act as garrison as resistance ends while the Immortals once at full strength look for any additional cities to take.
After a couple tries as Persia you'll get a good 'feel' for what is necessary.
Hope this helps!
The Persian UHV can seem daunting at first and it definitely takes a few tries to become good with it. Here are some things I did in my games that may be useful to you:
1. Only keep the Babylonian cities you need - IMO this means Babylon and Shush which flips to you. Raze Ninua as the culture in the last 2 cities pretty much covers most of what Ninua will do , added expense and adds more cities to stability. Also raze As-Sur but keep of course Jerusalem for the religious wonder.
2. Greece should be taken but try to do it opportunistically: Greece usually has barb trouble and may even collapse before turn 150. Nice strategy is when you're busy with Palestine and Egypt, sign OB with Greece, send a galley to investigate to see how strong they are.
3. When to invade India is tricky; you want to do it soon as ideally you'd like India to build at least 1 Holy Shrine for you although it's not always possible. But you don't want to wait too long as you do need some time for the borders to expand and possibly pump out a Great Prophet. You do not want to invade India before they have built at least 1 other city than Delhi. The more cities they build the less you have to settle as you want the subcontinent filled out ASAP, settlers take time and conquest helps your stability. Also you want some free workers and improvements to be made so don't raze improvements.
4. Shush should be your big wonder city. Also Parsa and Babylon can do some as well. You may need a good port city to build the Great Lighthouse if Egypt hasn't done it and in my recent game I used the Indian city of Vikhampton. When I conquered it, India had already made the improvements so it was already growing nicely without me spending any additional time on it.
5. If you're desperate for money, raze the villages in Egypt.
6. As tempting as it may be, don't try to build a huge army, too big a drain on the economy. Try to be an efficient conquerer and make only the units to get the job done. I think 6-8 units should be about right in most cases, maybe less in India or if Egypt hasn't mined the bronze. For India I like 4 Immortals and 2 Archers, the Immortals go straight for Delhi. When the archers arrive they act as garrison as resistance ends while the Immortals once at full strength look for any additional cities to take.
After a couple tries as Persia you'll get a good 'feel' for what is necessary.
Hope this helps!
AnotherPacifist
Deity
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- Sep 21, 2007
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- 4,878
2 words for Persia: construction and currency. Everything else is secondary.
(Oh, and founding your capital on the coast helps a lot)
(Oh, and founding your capital on the coast helps a lot)
hendriksen
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2008
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Thanks guys I pulled it off.
I built the pyramids in Artacanoa. On turn 141 I had 8.11% of world territory and the first condition was checked off. Now its just cruising to the finish
I've got 6 wonders built and within a few turns my 2nd GP will spawn to built the 2nd shrine.
I researched mathematics and got currency as a free tech from the oracle. then researched for construction. I think currency is more important then construction because it gives you 1 extra trade route per city. And thus, you can maintain a bigger army/empire.
Building spearmen early on is a must, because of all the barbarian horsearchers who come from the north.
Edit: made it on the 6th try, with highest score ever for me.
I built the pyramids in Artacanoa. On turn 141 I had 8.11% of world territory and the first condition was checked off. Now its just cruising to the finish
I've got 6 wonders built and within a few turns my 2nd GP will spawn to built the 2nd shrine.
I researched mathematics and got currency as a free tech from the oracle. then researched for construction. I think currency is more important then construction because it gives you 1 extra trade route per city. And thus, you can maintain a bigger army/empire.
Building spearmen early on is a must, because of all the barbarian horsearchers who come from the north.
Edit: made it on the 6th try, with highest score ever for me.
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-Perceval-
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2008
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your idea is great thadian, after all we can say they were theocrath(and they had paper).
And i'm agree with all of your other propositions.
Now it still the incans problem, i don't know very much this civilization but it could be a way to make them stronger with staying historically correct.
And i'm agree with all of your other propositions.
Now it still the incans problem, i don't know very much this civilization but it could be a way to make them stronger with staying historically correct.
