v1.983 - v1.483 - v1.183

[thadian]

the vikings only had 4 cities in my game, but they did good with it. Mongolia was hardly the monster i knew, and russia was pretty solitary in its actions. Not a single war!

India collapsed earlier than usual, Khmer grew and China was weak. Mighty Japan! They were powerhouses, and my main trading partners.

In this emperor game, i began settling London and Manchester. the other 2 settlers went on boats. I settled Dublin, and after making friends with Spain and France i settled my carthage city. I had slower developments than usual though, as my stability didn't seem to agree with my carthagian placement. The city would fall to barbarians but it was due to my undercommitment of guards. i just let it go. I would have kept it but the vikings war on me was costly with their newly beefed up navy. never have i seen them completely shut down britan, but i slave whipped some boats. I beelined first to Compass and then to Liberalism. i gave meditation around as a gift to increase diplo.

After reading several guides, i was suggested to quit - The vikings weren't willing to end their mock war, and were blockading me and forced me to build 80% navy to keep them off of me. no terms would satisfy them shy of all my techs they were missing. No religion and it was 1450's. Well, a loser i may be but a quitter i am not! The netherlands, Germany and Mali became close allies and trading partners. This was good because france went from +8 diplo and pleased to warring me. Germany was happy to join my side. Spain remained neutral and Portugal spawned. i quickly beefed them some techs and landed them a token army of some longbows to help them against spain.

Portugal would move on to force Izzy to capitulate, and Germany would defeat the vikings for me. Still no religion in europe! But then it comes, and... Islam! it seemed like i was the one left out as it hadn't spread to me. ok. time to change? i deleted all of my boats, and workers and war with spain and france to keep their navies busy in preperation for my Aztecs. I changed over.

Monty had a nice start, as the Mayans pre-built nice cities for me to win via flippage. My army fortified a line against the native american barbarian force, and i worked my way up the ladder. I kept within my boundries and had a nice time until japan decided they wanted some america for themselves. i had no problem with the Jap west coast, but when they came for the Baja Peninsula, i had to go to war. Japan would be my maker, and my game came to an end.

I had faster loading times in later game stages, and it was a unique experience. Great job! i hope to provide some khmerian feedback soon as well.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Japan ... my main trading partners.

Oxymoron .

 

[thadian]

Japan had settled good lands in the pacific, korea and had chinese vassals. they were friendly and had a lot to offer me.

 

[NerfCothons]

europeans didn't know that the earth was round too...
Their calendra was more precises than our calendar, they knew that eclipses was only an astronomic phenomenon, not like european who thank that was a surnatural thing.
yes their weapons was not good but they built an gigantic city on tthe water and they built a wall to separate salt water and normal water! They had aqueducts(europeans didn't have that).
I don't say that they qere more advanced than europeans but that they sgould be more advanced in the game were they seems to begin at the prehistorical age!

The Greeks knew the world was round. The Romans built aquaducts that have been used ever since.

And as to the whole idea that Spanish technology played an unimportant role, I just happened to stumble across this quote in my book today, Collapse by Jared Diamond:

"...during the spanish conquest of Peru's Inca Empire in 1532-1533, there were five battles in which respectively 169, 80, 30, 110, and 40 Spaniards slaughtered armies of thousands to tens of thousands of Incas, with not a single Spaniard killed and only a few injured--because Spanish steel swords cut through Indian cotton armor, and the Spaniards' steel armor protected them against blows from the Indian stone or wooden weapons. (252)"

I imagine Cortez' Conquistadors enjoyed a similar advantage. Sure the way RFC depicts a massive wave of Europeans outnumbering and decimating the natives isn't technically correct, but it accurately executes the decimation of American civilization at the hands of the first Europeans who showed up correctly within the game mechanics. Let's not pretend that Cortez just got lucky.

 

[blizzrd]

Their army was so good, it fell to small rebel soldier/spanish soldier gorilla units.

One of the funniest things I've read in a while.

 

[onedreamer]

The Greeks knew the world was round.

The Greeks knew that the world is round, but the world is actually spheroidal.

 

[-Perceval-]

Strange, in the book that i have rode, they said that aztec bows can easily kill an spanish, even with his armor. And their weapons was very sharp. When your book has been write? Now all historians are agree that the technology played a minor role(read wikipedia article and you will see).
So the only thing i demand is just one or two more tech and units for aztec and incans, just to make the game more challenging(i take a lot of time europeans civ and each time i success to invade incans and aztecs!) And if they resist, they are the last in the score. ALWAYS! i don't see why japan is more advanced and more populated than aztec in 1200! this is falsh! Please stop say me aztec and incan have to be big chit! They was not! Please give these civilization just a little, a very little more power.

nerfcothons said:
"...during the spanish conquest of Peru's Inca Empire in 1532-1533, there were five battles in which respectively 169, 80, 30, 110, and 40 Spaniards slaughtered armies of thousands to tens of thousands of Incas, with not a single Spaniard killed and only a few injured--because Spanish steel swords cut through Indian cotton armor, and the Spaniards' steel armor protected them against blows from the Indian stone or wooden weapons. (252)"

Do you really think it is possible? where do you found this book?

I think more than thousand soldier even without weapons can easily kill 40 spaniards!
No really..but i think that is not rhye fault. That is sid fault. Really i don't see why soldier with mass can so easily kill soldier with axes!
and someone said romans had aqueducts..ok but the europeeans in middle age had not!(i play 600 ad)

 

[Lone Wolf]

europeans didn't know that the earth was round too...

They did. That's why Columbus sailed west, to find another way to India.

 

[coko]

The Egyptions knew too, the most basic example was of two deep wells placed 50 (camel (not . .. .. .. .!) walking miles apart). A mathmatician looked at the difference in the angle of the shadow they produced at midday and noticed they were different. Through some simple Greek maths (seriously, sqr(a) + sqr(b) = sqr(c)) he was able to determine that the Earth was round and travelled around the sun.

Clever people these ancient ones.

 

[-Perceval-]

ok but by example europeans didn't know how to calculate when an eclipse will come. And they did not knew the star position very well. The aztec and tha incan knews perfectly solar cycle and they used it for their buildings, by example on certain piramids, the shadow make a snake form!

 

[BurnEmDown]

And I suppose those snake form shadows were part of their technological advancement?
The only technological advantage I know the Aztecs had over europeans was their calendar and Astronomy, but I don't see how could this advantage help them fend off war-thirsty europeans. And the part of the book he read and wrote here was about the Inca, not the Aztec, maybe it was possible for Aztec bowman to kill a spanish soldier, but he said the Incas couldn't.

 

[Panopticon]

Playing as Russia, 600 AD start. Going for UHV. In 1500 at the moment. Not a lot of gameplay difference between the new and old patches really, except for more wars, Arabia's collapsing very soon after Turkish spawn and war with Turkey, and an apparently less aggressive Germany.

Loading times are short, which is good. Vikings only built two cities, which other posters have noted. Edo is a nice touch. Kazan isn't optimally positioned, so I razed it, but an AI might keep it.

 

[Panopticon]

As regards the historical debate, it's a matter of fact that the Europeans overwhelmed the native peoples south of the modern Mexico-US border due to (a) superior weapons technology; (b) low native resistance to European temperate disease; (c) a lack of social cohesion and solidarity amongst old enemies; and the combination of these three factors leading to (d) cultural and social collapse, e.g. Moctezuma's reaction to the European arrival.

RFC correctly models (a) and (b). It could model (c) by giving the conquistadors more native allies, or by spawning more barbarians. (d) is a pretty intangible thing to model, unless you want to get really deterministic with the AI. But as it is, the conquest of Central and South America is modelled quite well.

 

[-Perceval-]

very good resume. but i still tin that aztec and incans should not die at each game i play! Or be always the weakest in score. Let's compare aztec in 1350 and other country:
in RFC aztec and incans are the weakest even before the european arrive. let's compare it with other country in the world history:
japan:less populate than aztec, scientificaly weakest(exept for iron work), less organized. In rfc, in 1350 japan have more than 3 aztec or incan score additioned. Is it realistic?
Indiak in 600 ad game they are independant states but still stronger than azyec and incans, in the real history, they were divided(in 1350)and i think less important than aztecs and incans.
Khmers: i think they were advanced like the aztec or the incans but they are really stronger than them in RFC.
Vikings: ok they were more advanced than that we can think(i'm a fan of this civilization). But i think they were less important than the aztec economically and demographicaly.

ok i think that resume that aztec and incans deserve a better situation that they have. That is the principal polemic but ther is only two other problem(that make only 3 problems, it shows that RFC is an excellent mod):
the vikings in 600 ad always collapse and are not a danger for europeeans
The mongols are toooo weak!

 

[say1988]

Yes, Europeans thought that if they just travel West far enough they will fall off teh edge of the world and land in India. If they thought the world was not round they would not have went to the Americas. In fact the Ancient Greeks knew the earth was round and calculated the circumference.
And Europeans didn't have aqueducts, they just build these big huge structures that transported water into major cities, but they weren't aqueducts
Many educated Europeans also knew what eclipses were.


They were more advanced in some respects, but they were far behind in others.

 

[Lone Wolf]

the vikings in 600 ad always collapse and are not a danger for europeeans

Apparently, they often bug out and build only two cities. Nobody knows why.

The mongols are toooo weak!

I tend to think so too.

 

[-Perceval-]

thanks!first time that somebody is agre with me!
And to answer to say1986:
there was europeans who knwos what eclipse are but did they know how to calculate it only with 30 sec of error?

And did japanese and khmers knows that? They still more advanced than aztecs and incans in the game!

 

[-Perceval-]

sorry for double post, it is a bug, how do i delete post?

 

[usi]

I don't know much about Aztec stuffs, but I guess I know about Japan.

japan:less populate than aztec

At least it seems to me that Kyoto in 1000AD was more populated than Tenochtitlan in 1500AD. Kyoto's population was estimated to be 300,000 in 1000AD, whereas Tenochtitlan's population was estimated to be 212,500 or 80,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_cities).

Of course you might argue that the total population of Aztec was greater than that of Japan, but I do not know how such comparison make any sense. If such comparison were valid, China and India must have always been greater than European powers.

scientificaly weakest(exept for iron work)

WeakEST? Just like European countries learned a lot from Arabia, Japan learned a lot of stuffs from China (directly or via Korea), and thus they have been using paper from 7th C, and a document (some doubt this source though), Kennmuki (建武&#35352, suggests that Japan had its first paper currency in 1334.

Also, many people received writing and reading education, so even some women were highly literate, and there was a woman writing a influential literature (The Pillow Book) by 10th C.

Moreover, after some centuries (early 17th C) Japan discovered calculus independent of Arabian or European contributions, and in 18th C they were making automata like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6fHhSQNSQY.

I can continue listing more tech stuffs if you would like.

less organized.

Then, how come they defeated Mongolian force in 1274 and 1281? Mongolian force must have been much stronger than those invaded Aztec.

 

[-Perceval-]

storms destroyed mongolians boat....

The paper was knew in america very soon too, but in the game, they don't know this technology.
for the population, i just compare reality and the game. Khmers and japan empires are very well populated in 1400ad. Aztecs have only 25 town level maximum(addition of all population in their town).
We know that meso-amrican society was extremly advanced in astronomy, they knew the number 0 before europeans.
Really i don't see why japan and khmer have the aztec score multiplicated by 3 in the game!