v11 feedback

[Maniac]

Hey, I finally got around to finish this - a relatively complete translation into German.

Did SMAC translate 'Mind Worm' to 'Psycho-Virus'?

 

[GeoModder]

I don't understand this sentence.

He's talking about the ethnic percentage of the citizens in a base.
For instance a Spartan city starts with 100% Spartan ethnicity. If it is a border city with another faction a small percentage could become from another faction. But if native life captures a Spartan base, and a few turns later this base is recaptured by the Spartans, a certain percentage will have become "native life" citizens instead of Spartans.

 

[Maniac]

Ah, I see. While that doesn't make much sense if you think too hard about it, it doesn't lead to any gameplay problems.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Did SMAC translate 'Mind Worm' to 'Psycho-Virus'?

Yes, thats the term in the German version.

 

[nevill]

I don't understand this sentence.

Sorry, I think I misprinted 'on' instead of 'of'.

What do you need in order to do early rushes that currently isn't in the game?

A tiny bit faster access to 4-strenght weaponry. As you remember, Non-Linear Mathematics was easily available as a 3rd tech in vanilla SMAC. 4 vs. 3 is not that high an advantage, but it is an advantage nonetheless. I don't know where you could place it, though, except for the Superconductor.

As of now, the Armor (with anti-personel upgrade) + Infantry defense combination is impenetrable. It shreds Infantry to pieces, and Rovers don't have a chance against it because of 50% difference in power, leaving only Choppers to deal with it. And fortified Infantry is very hard to get through.

Another option would be nerfing Armor to defense-only unit. Right now I feel cheated when I choose Physics (Conquer tech) and end up with a unit design that is inferior to the one a Builder gets.

If infantry units had 25% attack vs. base (instead of 25% attack vs. infanry), I would at least have a chance to approach the base without a fear of immediate retaliation by enemy's infantry. It makes sense, balance-wise: a 25% attack bonus can be negated with a 25% bonus that 'Fortify' option provides, and there is base defense bonus on top of that.

Do rocky or fungus tiles provide a defensive bonus? My biggest problem is approaching the base.

 

[Maniac]

Yes, thats the term in the German version.

I'm of course not familiar with German, but is that not a rather silly translation? Worms are rather different from viruses.

Is Geesteswurm sound German?

 

[Lord Tirian]

Is Geesteswurm sound German?

- but yeah, it's a rather silly translation (the Psycho-Virus), and frankly, I don't like it at all - but it is mentioned in a couple of quotes (and hence the German sound files), so I didn't touch it.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Does Geesteswurm sound German?

Sie haben wirklich hauptschmerzen.

 

[The_J]

Yeah, currently, they are only static models, nobody has made animations for them so far...

I guess, the Humvee animations/+skeleton could maybe be swapped on that model.

I
Is Geesteswurm sound German?

Geisteswurm is better.

Sie haben wirklich hauptschmerzen.

Kopfschmerzen.



....ah, where's the grammar nazi thread ? I'll go over there, and troll there a bit .

 

[nevill]

Ok, I've almost completed my Spartans game. Thoughts:

I think I can relate to the bug with the datalinks. 60% of the time the tech list - which is the first thing you see when you go to the datalinks - does not load for me. It looks blank and though it does not crash per se, it will if you try to click on the tech requirements for other entries. Once I load the game everything is fine. As I've already said, I am a Vista user, if it is of any help.

Despite early difficulties with combat, mid-game battles are a no-brainer. InVitro units are insanely good for terraformers because of the food requirements to build them. In fact, I had a very poor mineral output in most of my bases (rocky squares and mineral resourses are few and far between), but had enormous amount of surplus food. I was able to build them once in every 2-3 turns - nobody had a slightest chance to resist my invasion force.

As if it wasn't enough, dropships were almost too good to be true. 4 Cargo, 3 Movement points. I was able to invade my neighbours on the same turn I declared war at them. And with 5-xp 6-str hordes fighting several 4-str garrisons I emerged victorious in every combat. I didn't even had a chance to see cyborgs.

There really should have been some measures of transporting units besides dropships. I miss the roads. For now I do not have much use for formers. Compared to original SMAC, where I had to maintain 100+ Former fleets, my measly 8 formers don't let me feel I am actively transforming hostile environment in a place better suited for humans. If terraforming efforts were more time-consuming and civics' benefits to terraforming were not that great (and roads were back, even at ridiculous costs , then Hybrid lovers can have their analogue of Xenoempathy Dome for free at some point to counter this), the terraforming aspects of the game would have been more meaningful.

As for native life, it is more of a nuisance then a threat. They do not raze cities, and because of the Planetfall's rules the buildings are left intact, so recapturing the city is just a matter of time. And I never manage to recapture it in time before some other faction drives Mindworms out and claims the city for itself. Grrrr! Fortunately, I am scary enough to intimidate them into liberating the city. But for AI it is really harmful. University was practically destroyed in my game when two of its bases fell to the Mindworms and were recapured by Morganites and The Hive. Can recapturing and then not liberating a city be considered an act of agression?

Speaking of liberation, I don't really understand the rules. In my game Morgan had built 2 Colony Pods but was too afraid to move them across the fungus. I made 2 Colony Pods of my own and then traveled beyond his territory where I felt he wanted his bases placed, built the bases and 'liberated' them. When I wanted to assist Zakharov in the same way I could not offer him to liberate one of my newly built cities, but could make such an offer to Morgan.

How does loading/unloading on dropships work? Does a unit have to spend its turn to board the transport? Why unboarding is free then? I know that if a dropship is destroyed then all the cargo is destroyed too. Unboarding each dropship before the end of turn makes things so much easier for invaders. Being able to board/unboard everywhere is also a good way of sneak attacking the enemy that can't even reach you. I think limiting these options to cities as in vanilla SMAC would drastically reduce the cheesyness of the overpowered unit. Limiting movement points could work too - the ability to pass terrain restrictions is formidable as it is.

Overall, great mod with a great potential.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Geisteswurm is better.

...still sounds a bit silly, because "Geist" in German has different connotations than "mind" in English, because "Geist" can also mean "ghost"... not a big thing (because "Geistes-" makes it clear that it's not about ghosts, but it does changes the feel you get from the word in subtle ways, I think) - but I would prefer something "Psychwurm" or "Hirnwurm" to get the association with psychology (like mind has a bit) and brains!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

A tiny bit faster access to 4-strenght weaponry. As you remember

If you're playing on a difficulty level fitting for your skills, the AI would also research that tech around the same time, and you wouldn't have stronger weapons anymore.

Anyway, it seems you're viewing this from the perspective of SMAC. Base conquest in Planetfall is certainly more difficult than in SMAC. However my feeling is that it's easier than in vanilla Civ4, as you can get 'catapults' (armor with the accuracy special ability) with much less research than vanilla Civ.

Do rocky or fungus tiles provide a defensive bonus?

Yes. See the Datalinks or the mouse-over help.

- but yeah, it's a rather silly translation (the Psycho-Virus), and frankly, I don't like it at all - but it is mentioned in a couple of quotes (and hence the German sound files), so I didn't touch it.

Well... Personally I would not consider this reason enough to endure the hideous Psycho-Virus, but I'm not the one who's gonna have to play the game with the German translation. You decide. Hirnwurm sounds cool (and short enough) to me for the record.

I also noticed Planetmind was simply translated as Planeten btw.

Sie haben wirklich hauptschmerzen.

Adjective
sound (comparative sounder, superlative soundest)

1.Healthy. 
He was safe and sound.
2.Complete, solid, or secure. 
Fred assured me the floorboards were sound.
3.(British, slang) Good or a good thing. 
"How are you?" - "I'm sound."
That's a sound track you're playing.

I guess, the Humvee animations/+skeleton could maybe be swapped on that model.

Humvee? Where, where?

Despite early difficulties with combat, mid-game battles are a no-brainer. InVitro units are insanely good for terraformers because of the food requirements to build them. In fact, I had a very poor mineral output in most of my bases (rocky squares and mineral resourses are few and far between), but had enormous amount of surplus food. I was able to build them once in every 2-3 turns - nobody had a slightest chance to resist my invasion force.

What difficulty level are you playing on for the record?

Dropships will be available somewhat later and Magtubes a little earlier in the next patch.

I have no intention to copy SMAC's insane former micromanagement.

As for native life, it is more of a nuisance then a threat. They do not raze cities, and because of the Planetfall's rules the buildings are left intact, so recapturing the city is just a matter of time.

After I add drafting for the barbarians, you won't be able to take your time to recapture the base, or you'll lose all your population! That should hopefully add some tension and pressure if you lose a base to the natives.

But for AI it is really harmful. University was practically destroyed in my game when two of its bases fell to the Mindworms and were recapured by Morganites and The Hive. Can recapturing and then not liberating a city be considered an act of agression?

I've been thinking about that, but I'm not sure how I could get something like that to work in practice. In any case, IIRC the AI is already more likely to declare war on players who have cities with lots of their culture in it. So if you steal one of their bases under their nose, you might be facing a war declaration in the future.

Speaking of liberation, I don't really understand the rules.

That's silly Firaxis code. Personally I think it's best to pretend that feature doesn't exist.

 

[nevill]

If you're playing on a difficulty level fitting for your skills, the AI would also research that tech around the same time, and you wouldn't have stronger weapons anymore.

What difficulty level are you playing on for the record?

I am playing Noble, because it is considered 'fair', but I think everything I said might be true for Monarch. I don't think I can get 7+ population on Emperor and above without some serious drawbacks, though.

As for the InVitro, I don't think AI can produce them at the same speed. They don't build enough farms for that (and not everyone is running Terraformer civic either). I would have built them even if they were str-4, just because of the fact that I don't have the minerals to build anything else in my food rich bases. Str-5, or even better, restricting them from getting XP/promotions/abilities would make them less attractive.

After I add drafting for the barbarians, you won't be able to take your time to recapture the base, or you'll lose all your population!

I did not 'take my time', I was moving my forces to the base as quickly as possible, preferrably even before it was captured. It's just it takes sooo long without the roads, that other factions almost always beat me in this race.

Besides, I can swear I already was losing population! My size 4 base went to 1 after I had driven the Worms out.

I have no intention to copy SMAC's insane former micromanagement.

A pity. I loved that aspect of the game.

So if you steal one of their bases under their nose, you might be facing a war declaration in the future.

I did just that and 20 turns later they became my vassals. They can't recover from these takeovers easily. Maybe they can get Psi bonuses as the difficulty level progresses or perhaps they can be taught to deal with the wildlife better and avoid these kind of situations altogether.

Concerning dropships, I think they can be balanced if you needed something to cover them with when they are transporting their cargo. For now, the cargo can act as a shield at the end of the turn, which makes them invincible.

Don't you think that Plasma Shard special ability makes both Anti-personel and Empath Song abilities redundant? If it were to add 15% vs Psi/Infantry instead of 25%, at least there would be a choice.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Base conquest in Planetfall is certainly more difficult than in SMAC. However my feeling is that it's easier than in vanilla Civ4, as you can get 'catapults' (armor with the accuracy special ability) with much less research than vanilla Civ.

Or play as the Spartans who now get 5% bombardment for all of their units.

I have no intention to copy SMAC's insane former micromanagement.

Thank goodness. The extreme terraforming is probably the biggest reason I don't enjoy SMAC anymore.

Don't you think that Plasma Shard special ability makes both Anti-personel and Empath Song abilities redundant? If it were to add 15% vs Psi/Infantry instead of 25%, at least there would be a choice.

Not so much when you consider the possibility of getting 2 abilities. And certainly not for Empath Song which allows you to capture native life.

 

[The_J]

...still sounds a bit silly, because "Geist" in German has different connotations than "mind" in English, because "Geist" can also mean "ghost"... not a big thing (because "Geistes-" makes it clear that it's not about ghosts, but it does changes the feel you get from the word in subtle ways, I think) - but I would prefer something "Psychwurm" or "Hirnwurm" to get the association with psychology (like mind has a bit) and brains!

Cheers, LT.

"Hirnwurm" sounds more like an insult .

Humvee? Where, where?

It's an older unit, here (by snafusmith).
I guess, the animation is the base for more 4 wheeled units, like the various jeeps from Krugerpritz here. He's also made anther version of the hummer, here.

 

[nevill]

Ok, gave it another try, this time on Monarch difficulty as Morgan.

I checked that 'spread out' option at the beginning of the game. Found Material Supplies in a pod, built the project that reveals the map. Wow, I never thought we were *that* spread out. Found a Unity Rover too and by MY 2160 I took almost 70% of the land Pods because I knew their locations. I had quite an army of Choppers, too.

Yang and Miriam were the closest neighbours. Well, there was a Santiago right next to me, but she was isolated on an island and I did not consider her. My bases were very spread out and some of them were too far away from the headquarters, so it took me awhile to build everything I needed. Yang was the one who founded Voice of Planet (beat me by 3 turns there) and I followed with Edenism shortly after. This made thing between us quite tense, but I always complied to his demands and managed to maintain a strained peace. Yang had hordes of low-level units, but I did not have anything better than Armor&Choppers for a long time. Then I gained a friendship of Zacharov and we traded every single tech we could. After that I just bee-lined to Cloning and was the first to get it along with Kinematics. You know the rest.

I didn't even research High Energy Chemistry.

This time I had a heavy mineral output in half of my bases so food requirements of InVitro didn't play such a desicive role as they did in the last game. Still, I think there is a lack of a good defensive unit for those who did not reach Kinematics or Cloning in time.

P.S. I have noticed that I can only add special abilities to Dropships built in my Headquarters, though there are no Secret Projects or any buildings that aren't in my other bases except for the Naval Yard. Are they considered to be sea units?

 

[Pfeffersack]

P.S. I have noticed that I can only add special abilities to Dropships built in my Headquarters, though there are no Secret Projects or any buildings that aren't in my other bases except for the Naval Yard. Are they considered to be sea units?

Yes, they are technically Cruisers.

-------

@ "Psychovirus"

I agree that it is a non-literal and odd translation of "Mindworm" - but OTOH, German SMAC players are now very used to this term, it is used in ingame-media and it catches best that feeling of danger/terror. "(Ge)hirnwurm" is better then "Geisteswurm" but still lacks the emphasize on the consequences of an attack. Technically, "virus" is completly wrong, but they way those worms act and what they cause, they are similar to a virus infection. I just fear that using another, better "translated" term will make many German players think that the translation is rather bad because being to literally...

Either way, if that translation is complete and tested, it would be probably good to open a thread over at the German Webring forum (it is the biggest German forum with civ-related stuff I know) to collect feedback there - I could do that if it is desired.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Technically, "virus" is completly wrong, but they way those worms act and what they cause, they are similar to a virus infection.

That's why I totally hate the translation - the mindworms act as immune system of Planet, throwing the "virus" into the mix is rather unfortunate from my point of view, even if it makes some sense from a human point of view.

Either way, if that translation is complete and tested, it would be probably good to open a thread over at the German Webring forum (it is the biggest German forum with civ-related stuff I know) to collect feedback there - I could do that if it is desired.

Oh, good idea! I think I still have an account over there... (you're talking about this forum, right?) way back I helped to translate one or two FfH2 texts, so once you open a thread, I can participate in the discussion as well.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Oh, good idea! I think I still have an account over there... (you're talking about this forum, right?) way back I helped to translate one or two FfH2 texts, so once you open a thread, I can participate in the discussion as well.

Cheers, LT.

Yes, I was refering to this forum. For the download, I think their is no need to load up each version there seperately (I would just refer to gamesvault, many other mods do this as well) and a make a post if a new version is released (and maybe translate the patch notes). I will create the thread after Maniac has uploaded the new patch and I had the chance to play a couple of turns with the translation as well.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

How about an ability to repair a damaged former, or even just a bonus to the chance of a former being repaired, when another unit is on the tile with it. I know it's just bad luck on my part, but having a damaged former sitting there for maybe ten turns or more when the offending worm/isle has been killed and there are no others nearby is frustrating and expensive.