V37 LP/Streams Diety Mode

[IdioticUlt1mara]

We're working on some fine tuning of late.

Crime goes up when population goes up. It's also a dynamic value so you really cannot turn your back on it. You might think you've got it under control but at least check every couple of rounds, especially after growth.

I know about the growth thing. I have had my cities on "avoid growth" for about 500 turns now. But still the crime rate goes up after building all the anti-crime buildings, I am at Bronze working stage, and at least 5 town watchmen - some have 10 enforces + 5 TW - and yet still no way of lowering the crime rate in some cities. Other cities however are at -1000 crime .

I have focused so heavily on trying to reduce crime I am actively avoiding slavery

 

[Thunderbrd]

Once the criminals take root it's quite difficult to get rid of them but if you can keep it from happening to begin with then you'll not have that much trouble with them.

Have you looked at the defensive help hovers in those cities with a lot of LE units to see how many criminals are lurking there?

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Once the criminals take root it's quite difficult to get rid of them but if you can keep it from happening to begin with then you'll not have that much trouble with them.

Have you looked at the defensive help hovers in those cities with a lot of LE units to see how many criminals are lurking there?

Yh I can see that each of the main cities that have crime have 10 Crime Units 1000+ Crime score. I am almost thinking that letting the crime run rampant is better than the 3GPT unit cost for each Watchman. I just get a little irretated that I cant assasinate them or anything. Is there other units other than LEs that can kill/capture/arrest Thieves etc?

It just seems even though I tried so so hard to stop crime from happening it still happened and it is a little irratating to say the least. Time to B line Law Enforcement Me thinks haha.

Also not being able to see buildings kinda sucks cause again I feel that just letting crime happen may be more beneficial that building all the anti-crime buildings

 

[JosEPh_II]

T-brd has kind of poopoo'd me over this but with his added autobuild buildings that generate crime/turn + the Criminal units themselves generating crime/turn coupled with the Diffusion mechanics of the Property system there will be constant fluctuations. The balance is, imho, broken now because those criminals and autobuild buildings introduced too much crime per turn. I have suggested a reduction for each of these new sources. But I don't think I have persuaded him to do so.

He has proposed that the Indivivdual crimes that are triggered by reaching set Crime levels needs the range extended from 10 to 1000 to 10 to 2000. This will cause the individual crime to be more spread out. But this will NOT stop the crime level's constant fluctuations that are increasing crime in surges.

I can set all Individual Cimes Back to their Original Crime introduction levels. But it will not fix the base cause. IMHO.

Take this as the birthing pains of a New system for Crime. All of T-brd's projects go thru this cycle because they start off overly complex and too strong, again IMHPO. No slight intended towards T-brd's imagination at work just stating the facts of how the process goes.

JosEPh

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Well I have managed to start fixing it. I had to build 25 LE units in a city with 1000 crime. They are now catching a crime unit every turn and I am at -47 and at 250 crime. I had to pretty much go "fudge this city" after building 15 LEs for my capital and then sent them to another city to fix that city, next I think I will send 20 of them back to my capital after I am finished fixing this city.

Tbh increasing the distance between all of the autobuildings would help a lot. So instead of everything being built pre 500 crime it would be better if they were spaced out a hell of a lot more - the -15 maintenance one should also not be at wat 100 crime? That seems too damned low for such a harsh criminal building

But I am actually enjoying this criminal aspect it just annoys me a tad. But it does keep me on my toes the whole time - especially since I am feeling the Diety AI are not very good, at 100% research I am doubling the AIs research rate

 

[JosEPh_II]

The system was balanced before the inclusion of the New additions to LE and Criminals. And the Individual Crimes impacts could be handled if not left to run amok.

He has proposed that the Indivivdual crimes that are triggered by reaching set Crime levels needs the range extended from 10 to 1000 to 10 to 2000. This will cause the individual crime to be more spread out. But this will NOT stop the crime level's constant fluctuations that are increasing crime in surges.

To quote my self over the Individual Crimes for emphasis. I can put all the ind. Crime Back to their Original crime levels. But it will Not stop the surges in the Crime Levels being generated by pop and new autobuildings and units.

JosEPh

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

tbh I can cope with crime it was just the instant "here have lots of crime building then lots of criminals" at once thing that hurt my cities. Sometimes I forget to pay attention for 20 turns and it can go from -200 to 50. Once the first few autobuildings are built then thats it here come the criminals. I think the Crime levels being extended would fix this

 

[JosEPh_II]

Update to SVN 9314. See the SVN Changelog thread for the changes I made to all the Old Individual Crimes and Mugging in particular. Also reduced the Diffusion rate from Main city til to adj tiles and back then to main tile. That should smooth out some, but not all of the roller coaster ride it has been. None of the New LE and Criminals system was touched or adjusted though. That is up to the system maker to do.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

Update to SVN 9314. See the SVN Changelog thread for the changes I made to all the Old Individual Crimes and Mugging in particular. Also reduced the Diffusion rate from Main city til to adj tiles and back then to main tile. That should smooth out some, but not all of the roller coaster ride it has been. None of the New LE and Criminals system was touched or adjusted though. That is up to the system maker to do.

JosEPh

I'll take a deeper look at that later tonight after work.

 

[Noriad2]

@IdioticUlt1mara I took a quick look at your beam.pro broadcast.
1) do you use the red shield button on law enforcement units (build up crime fighting)
2) do you use the F1 management page, make a custom page to monitor crime in all your cities at the same time?

 

[JosEPh_II]

@IdioticUlt1mara I took a quick look at your beam.pro broadcast.
1) do you use the red shield button on law enforcement units (build up crime fighting)
2) do you use the F1 management page, make a custom page to monitor crime in all your cities at the same time?

I'd like instructions for doing the F1 custom page thing for crime. That would be real handy.

JosEPh

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

@Noriad2 I have actually just started using the City Management page recently and customised it so I can see their crime and the rate and which it decays/increases. I also did this for education as I find education and crime to be the 2 most important "special" stats atm. I find disease is pretty ineffectual if you can counter the unhealth easily

But thank you for the tip ^_^. And glad someone is watching my beam recordings

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

I have decided that next time I play this game I will have to find a way to make it more difficult. I am just researching Classical Lifestyle and I am at double the research rate as the Diety AI, when I am running at 100%, - Even Mansa Musa is here - but I am almost always at 0% research rate

 

[JosEPh_II]

I have decided that next time I play this game I will have to find a way to make it more difficult. I am just researching Classical Lifestyle and I am at double the research rate as the Diety AI, when I am running at 100%, - Even Mansa Musa is here - but I am almost always at 0% research rate

A lot of it is in your Game set up Option selections. Using Start as Minors is close to top of list for giving the Player an Boost. You use it all the time. Stop using Revolutions too. It's a tinkered with old version that is in need of an overhaul but it's far down the priority list. This on too give the Player an advantage. There are more of course. Like don't use S&D it's a big player boost. Also don't use for the animals the Keep Out option.

Also stop picking Leaders with the best traits. Use Random.

And StartegyOnly has "fixed" his NM Deity. It's a bit tougher than regular deity atm.

And the AI has to be taught how to use the newest Crime additions. T-brd is currently working on that.

I would like to know what you do to make your research so good. This will help in fine tuning the games assets.

JosEPh

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Honestly I do not do much. I make sure all of my cities keep their education as high as possible and post trackers I try to have 5 hunting units out at all times. I also build my first city after Sedent Lifestyle and pretty much try to build every single building, unless it produces crime. Another thing I do is B-Line Andeanism ASAP as that provides a hell of a lot of science for a religion. Then I go for Shinto since that provides a lot of -ve Maintenance

Also I did not realise that Minor Races was a player boost, I will not use it next time. I don't use Revolution anymore since you said it was very harmful to the AI.

Yeah I will be randoming it. I did random Dom Pedro II tbh but then again I randomed the Itzcoatl first and because I kept T.D. on I re-did the start up and then randomed Dom Pedro II, should have stuck with Itzcoatl

S&D you mean Surround and Destroy? Yeah I will cancel that in my next playthrough - I barely use it myself anyways. And I think I will cancel Developing leaders as well?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Also as a Deity player don't choose Mastery Victory Condition. All it really is is Conquest with some additional % goals in all the other areas for victory. The AI has never been programmed to use it well. Just choose Conquest or Domination with only 1 or 2 of the others left. And since you Know how to boost your science better than the AI perhaps you should leave Science Victory Off as well.

Although on Deity I would like to know How you are getting Religions faster than the AI? I think that was one of the Problems with using Start as Minors in that it took the AI off some of the paths it would take in a Non SaM game because SaM throws them all into serious war footing/unit production and that greatly hurts their Research efforts. T-Brd is still trying to balance that out.

We still have much to do with this mod. And unfortunately we only have 1 C++ programmer, T-brd, when we need 2 or 3 More.

JosEPh

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Yeah I could see SaMs making the AI go WTH I am at war must build all the units and focus on Military tech. But if you look at my LP - not that it is up-to-date with my livestreams - you will notice that the AI actually do focus very well onto other things, and they can get tracking without researching pre-req techs? That was a tad annoying tbh.

 

[JosEPh_II]

On Deity the AI gets 7 - 9 free techs at game start. You did not know this? I'll post the list here in a minute for you.

EDIT: The AI on both Regular Deity and StrategyOnly's Nightmare Deity the AI gets 8 free techs. They are as follows:
1. Nomad Lifestyle, 2.Gathering, 3. Scavenging, 4. Language, 5.Weaving, 6. Cooperation, 7. Hebalism, 8. Tool making.

So you can see that Tracking is just a hop and skip to get for them.

JosEPh

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

I have seen the AI tech Tracking then tech co-operation. That is what I mean by they seem to not have to research the pre-req. It happens in my playthrough. I will look through the videos just now to see if I can pinpoint it

This video at about 11 minutes, the AI finished researching Tracking then researched Co-Operation?

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

That is me now finishing off this playthrough at this very moment in time. 2500ish turns into the game