Venice discussion

[Veras]

I'm aware about that. But what you say is not true: the use of 'most' in English doesn't necessarily involve a comparison. It is a comparison when you use 'the most'. But if you say 'a most', or just 'most' ('A most interesting person' = 'Uma pessoa muito interessante/interessantíssima', or 'Most beautiful!' = 'Lindíssimo!'), you're using the closest equivalent in English to an absolute superlative (I've once seen it considered as an actual English absolute superlative).

Feel free to correct me if I'm saying something wrong.

I didn't realize that you were a portuguese speaker, so I feel stupid now for trying to explain portuguese grammar for you

Well, I guess you're correct, I haven't thought about the 'a most interesting person' case.

 

[Calouste]

Anyways, for Venetians Venice will be the only reliable source of science for long time, so hiring scientists will be a must. This means Venice won't get GM for long time, or they should heavily solw down the growth to hire 4 specialists. (at least they could use multiple-GP spawning exploit.)

You can get science from trade routes. And Venice will have a lot of trade routes. And Venice gets a Merchant at the discovery of Optics.

 

[Creamy Volcano]

You know I think their ability would be much more interesting and applicable if we were allowed to, say, buy things, or maybe just units in puppeted cities. I can see Venice not able to put up Wonders efficiently, especially in the earliest parts of the game because they have to catch up on other important things not covered up by an earlier wide empire.

But it is probably broken anyway, and besides I don't see how their ability is much different, in terms of positive gameplay benefits for humans playing as Venice, than Austria's.

The AI is an entirely different story.

Edit: Was it specified if CS units are taken over upon puppeting? Otherwise doing anything with a Militaristic CS is a colossal waste of time.

 

[ggmoyang]

You can get science from trade routes. And Venice will have a lot of trade routes. And Venice gets a Merchant at the discovery of Optics.

Other civs can have trade routes too. And Venice should spend more time building caravans and cargo ships from one city. We don't know if science from trade routes added to city(so it can get multipliers) or not, if it didn't scientists will be needed for sure.

Puppets have -25% penalty on science and can't assign scientist to them, they won't produce much science if you don't have many of them.

 

[Yzman]

Other civs can have trade routes too. And Venice should spend more time building caravans and cargo ships from one city. We don't know if science from trade routes added to city(so it can get multipliers) or not, if it didn't scientists will be needed for sure.

Puppets have -25% penalty on science and can't assign scientist to them, they won't produce much science if you don't have many of them.

It would be nice if they got rid of the penalties of puppets for Venice.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Venice CAN buy in puppets.
It also gets 2x the number of trade routes

 

[Altisma]

You can get science from trade routes. And Venice will have a lot of trade routes. And Venice gets a Merchant at the discovery of Optics.

Everyone gets science from trade routes. That effectively cancels out getting a science lead over someone else if hes getting science from his trade routes and trade routes sent to him.

 

[Yzman]

Venice CAN buy in puppets.
It also gets 2x the number of trade routes

If this was to me, I mean the penalty of science and culture.

 

[goodday]

Everyone gets science from trade routes. That effectively cancels out getting a science lead over someone else if hes getting science from his trade routes and trade routes sent to him.

Pretty sure you only get science from trade routes if you're behind in tech than your trading partner.

 

[God of Kings]

Venice would be very weak in a duel-sized multiplayer Skirmish match.

 

[Furycrab]

Pretty sure you only get science from trade routes if you're behind in tech than your trading partner.

Think it's more of a symbiotic thing. You get science no matter what, if you are behind you get more. You can make international trade routes with other CS too.

 

[Altisma]

Venice would be very weak in a duel-sized multiplayer Skirmish match.

Venice is going to ruin all random multiplayer games. Not if China/Arabia/England/Babylon didn't already but Venice is literally a death sentence in competitive play against good players.

 

[alpha2117]

Venice would be extremely weak if there are no city states

If you've ever wanted to win on Diety but haven't been able too I'm Guessing The Huns vs Venice on a Great Plains map with no City States would be a bit like seeing Liechtenstein declare war on the USSR in 1948.

 

[God of Kings]

Venice would be extremely weak if there are no city states

If you've ever wanted to win on Diety but haven't been able too I'm Guessing The Huns vs Venice on a Great Plains map with no City States would be a bit like seeing Liechtenstein declare war on the USSR in 1948.

A certain Ozymandias-inspired statue loves to visit Venice, especially with that kind of matchup, as well as with duel multiplayer no-CS Skirmish matches. How serene it is to see that statue pop up all of a sudden all the time.

 

[goodday]

Think it's more of a symbiotic thing. You get science no matter what, if you are behind you get more. You can make international trade routes with other CS too.

No. If you're completely ahead in tech you won't get any science from trade routes. See the third video about trade route and pause at the Portugal trade route overview. You will see that Portugal doesn't get any science from trade routes while other civs get them. And of course CS won't get science.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Venice would be extremely weak if there are no city states.

Greece is rather weak without city-states as well. Game is balanced around number of city-states 2 times more than number of civs.

 

[Furycrab]

Am I the only one really concerned about how good the AI is going to be playing Venice? Especially on Deity, which normally starts with a free Settler.

 

[The QC]

Venice is going to ruin all random multiplayer games. Not if China/Arabia/England/Babylon didn't already but Venice is literally a death sentence in competitive play against good players.

So... nothing changed. Matches with randomly selected civs are quite likely to end up with the luckiest player ahead.

As for the whole "they are weak on duel maps with no CSs against the Huns"... Of course. That can be said about many civs. The game is balanced around the more standard sized maps and around the idea that there are continents (and CSs).

No other setup is quite balanced. Dido can't live on a Plains map etc. Duel maps are especially unbalanced, giving a huge advantage to civs with a military focus and early UUs. A duel map as the Huns is already the easiest Deity win, anyway. Venice doesn't change that.

 

[PerceeP927]

Am I the only one really concerned about how good the AI is going to be playing Venice? Especially on Deity, which normally starts with a free Settler.

venice can't have settlers. I'm guessing they turn into workers if from policies

 

[Martinus]

I wish people actually read the "what we know" thread before commenting on various strategies because it is kinda annoying to discuss/speculate when people are ignorant of the confirmed things. For example we know that:

1. Science through trade routes benefits only the party who is behind in tech.
2. Venice can buy units and buildings in puppeted cities.
3. Venice cannot get settlers in any way.