Version 2.6 discussion

[hgthechinese]

Of course take a shot at Free Market.
To keep this on topic of civics, I do agree Regulated should lose hammers and Free Market should gain hammers (with no bailouts and safety nets, competition forces companies to be more productive), but Regulated having more commerce than Free Market is a tricky subject in terms of economics. Perhaps give a commerce boost with Central Bank?

As much sense as this may make (or not, depends on people's views), it would certainly throw the game off banlance again. Given regulated is a later tech than free market and free market is already very powerful, (I virtually use it solely as soon as it becomes possible) it would be a bad idea to make it any stronger.

 

[Big Heb]

As much sense as this may make (or not, depends on people's views), it would certainly throw the game off banlance again. Given regulated is a later tech than free market and free market is already very powerful, (I virtually use it solely as soon as it becomes possible) it would be a bad idea to make it any stronger.

From a gameplay point of view, I think both civics are fine the way they are. This was purely from an ideological point of view.

 

[ddogg77]

I am sorry. I started a new thread when I should have posted it here. New topic can be deleted. Thanks!

First, love the mod. Best IMO. I was wondering if it was at all possible to add some research to the "Future" part of the game. My idea is that instead of being forced to produce "Future Tech" after all the research tree is zapped, how about adding generational troop improvements to the final generations of units. For instance, research Cyborg Generation 2 / v2, etc, with "X" amount of increases to the strength of the troops, abilities, and bonuses. V2 Dropships can hold troops, and v3 dropships can drop with troops 15 squares instead of 10, and so on.

Also, it would be nice to be able to sell off troops and tanks as well as part of trading. Make the "Guerrilla" units able to fight without declaring war and able to move impassable (mountain regions) for Clandestine wars. Upping the SF units vs. Guerrilla and having a few more of them for scouting and resource pillaging ahead of war time to halt production. Some ideas, some of which are simple XML edits, but just thought I would throw it out there. Love your work!

 

[civhelp121]

as for balencing the game, if what I propose throws it off balence, then nevermind. I don't want to strengthen free market, simply change what it does.

As for the wages, if we were to really represent what free market and regulated do, then in both civics both hammers and commerce would increase. The fact of the matter is other than regulated free market is far better than any other economic system. Since regulated lessens the recessions and elongates the growths, if we were to be more realisitic like free market it would strengthen both hammers and commerce, but to a greater degree and even more so with commerce.

As for the gilded age, wages were still pretty low. It wasn't until really after the Great Depression and Keynsian economics and things like minimum wage did wages really increase dramatically. As I said, my reasoning that regulated should mainly increase commerce is Kenysian focuses on the demand curve, and the demand curve is determined by the amount of wealth people have. Hence the increase in commerce.

Finally, for the rise and fall part, I take back what I said. I just finished my game and I got to see what happened on the other continent and it was great. There wasn't much rise and fall on my side of the globe, but on the other side revolutions kept on replacing the old super power with a new superpower.

One question I forgot, when I built arcology and the shieldings, something strange happened. My main land is to the north but I have vassals and a pocket of land to the south, and my screen showed an utterly gigantic shielding protecting all of my vassals and my pocket of land. When I built shielding in those cities it didn't show that there was shielding around those cities, though the big one took on the properties of the more advanced ones when I built more advanced shieldings.

 

[Kaslak]

I have a suggestion about great generals

Give them the opportunity to instaurate a militar government.
In terms of game, the benefit should be the possibility to change civics without anarchy BUT only to some fixed combos (unlike golden age, wich allows to change everything as you prefer).
The advantage is the possibility to change rapidly civics to build an army, in case of unplanned attack from enemies.

In terms of game, there are different allowed changes, as civics are unlocked new possible regimes ecome aviable.

For example, with "military training" tech you can change to the fixed combo desptism-junta leaving the others civics unaltered.

with fascism you can change to fascist-nationalist-junta for example

the communist revolution should be something like communist-(junta?)-marxist(or proletariat?) perhaps something in economy/welfare. surely not private welfare

this is only an idea, the possible ombos are up to you. They should only be consistent with a military regime. Perhaps the power civics should always be junta, until changed with a 1-turn anarchy.

 

[zappara]

One question I forgot, when I built arcology and the shieldings, something strange happened. My main land is to the north but I have vassals and a pocket of land to the south, and my screen showed an utterly gigantic shielding protecting all of my vassals and my pocket of land. When I built shielding in those cities it didn't show that there was shielding around those cities, though the big one took on the properties of the more advanced ones when I built more advanced shieldings.

I've fixed Arcology buildings for v2.52 patch which I had planned to release today but unfortunately I need more tests with it as the last test run crashed very early game... 10 test runs up to 200 turns yesterday (each test with different game settings) worked fine so no idea why it crashed today.

 

[Grimz101]

Zappara, a nice trait you could maybe intergrate in future?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11453

 

[Jabarto]

I decided to try reworking some of the existing traits and theorizing on the new ones. What do you think of this?

Scientific
*+2 Research/city
*Double production speed of Observatory, Laboratory, Museum, Accelerator

Financial
*+2 Wealth/city
*Double production speed of Bazaar, Market, Grocer, Bank

Creative
*+2 Culture/city
*Double production speed of Library, School of Scribes, Theatre, Arena, Coliseum, Mind Control Center, Artist’s Guild, Opera House

Deceiver
*+2 Espionage/city
*Double production speed of Security Bureau, Intelligence Agency, Police Station, Jail

Agricultural
* +1 food on plots with 7 food.
*Double production speed of Irrigation Canals, Butchery, Fisherman’s Hut

Nomad
*Free City Raider 1 Promotion to Mounted units, Wheeled units, Hitech Units.
*Double production speed of Tannery, Stables.

Seafaring
* Free Combat 1 Promotion to Naval units.
*Double production speed of Shipyard, Naval Academy, Drydock

Aggressive
*Free Combat 1 Promotion to Melee units, Gunpowder units, Hitech units
*Double Production speed of Barracks, Garrison.

Expansive
*+2 Health/city
*Double production speed of Granary, Modern Granary, Healer’s Hut, Food Processing Plant, Harbor, Port, Commercial Port, International Port, Doctor’s Office, Arcology

 

[dkburrows]

I tried posting this elsewhere, and I think my browser ate it. Since it's something I'd like to see in 2.6 or later, I should probably have posted it here anyway.

I'd like diplomacy to allow you to ask for and offer anything for anything else. ie, not just tech for tech, tech for gold, or gold for tech, but also gold per turn, maps, open borders, alliances, etc. I'd like it to allow for you to ask for more gold per turn than the other AI is currently making. If they want what you have badly enough they'll just have to lower their research/spy rates enough to afford it. And the same for you.

I think it may have been Civ III that was like this, and I can't understand why it was changed. Or at least why the gold per turn part of it was changed, though I'd still like to be able to use maps and open borders or whatever as an extra trade incentive to try and get the tech you can' quite afford by gold alone.

 

[c0d5579]

Flanking or Navigation would make more sense to me for Seafaring than Combat.

 

[Pongu]

I think it may have been Civ III that was like this, and I can't understand why it was changed.

The AI was easily exploited. To make it so smart, you'd be waiting half an hour between turns.

 

[hgthechinese]

Hey Zap,

In my games (and sounds to me, many others') the production/research is way too power in mordern era. A good city can build the best military unit in one turn, and a bad city can still build a clone a turn. I can often research more than one technology with just the left over beakers from previous turn.

Do you think it is possible to tune down the % bonus for research, money and/or hammers? Or, can you dramatically increase the cost of units and (especially) research in mordern/future era? An increase of 10X for reserach cost would still mean I can research a new technology quicker (in terms of number of turns) than I could in early game, but at least it'd take *some* time to do so.

 

[zappara]

Few of the changes I've made to the next version will probably affect how much money you'll be making as hopefully player will have to use higher culture rate to keep citizens happy. Besides that, I've been thinking of another change but not yet sure should or should not I try it - what if the costs of units starting from renaissance era are tripled or quadrupled (or even higher) and you could build every unit without resource requirements BUT with resources like sulphur, ammo, steel, aluminum, uranium etc. you could build those units faster ie. the cost would be cheaper. I think this would help AI players more than the other choice I've been thinking ie. the added gold cost to modern units.

 

[Kristaps513]

Few of the changes I've made to the next version will probably affect how much money you'll be making as hopefully player will have to use higher culture rate to keep citizens happy. Besides that, I've been thinking of another change but not yet sure should or should not I try it - what if the costs of units starting from renaissance era are tripled or quadrupled (or even higher) and you could build every unit without resource requirements BUT with resources like sulphur, ammo, steel, aluminum, uranium etc. you could build those units faster ie. the cost would be cheaper. I think this would help AI players more than the other choice I've been thinking ie. the added gold cost to modern units.

Hopefully you'll give AI players handicap about revolution to balance the thing that they don't know how to handle situation before revolution, cities for AI shouldn't revolt too much, because it just makes game against AI easier. You could reduce it x2 less revolts for AI.

 

[Jabarto]

Few of the changes I've made to the next version will probably affect how much money you'll be making as hopefully player will have to use higher culture rate to keep citizens happy. Besides that, I've been thinking of another change but not yet sure should or should not I try it - what if the costs of units starting from renaissance era are tripled or quadrupled (or even higher) and you could build every unit without resource requirements BUT with resources like sulphur, ammo, steel, aluminum, uranium etc. you could build those units faster ie. the cost would be cheaper. I think this would help AI players more than the other choice I've been thinking ie. the added gold cost to modern units.

I think that's worth experimenting with, at the least.

 

[dkburrows]

Sorry to be off-topic again, but would it be possible to have all diplomacy bonuses not currently in force decay over time, so that past wars won't be relevant 5000 years after the fact? Ongoing bonuses/negatives would still be counted, such as open borders, peace, religion and ongoing war/trade.

I heard somewhere that this isn't moddable, but I'm hoping that's wrong. I'd also love it if for once the AI's would have a few negatives from other AI's. I'm a little tired of being the only one who isn't best buds of absolutely everyone else.

 

[zappara]

Seems that the bug in diplomacy when AI player offers a city to you and you get no options to answer in that screen is now known bug in BUG 3.51 mod. I'll include this fix to RoM in next version.

 

[Lawrie]

Just thought id add this, i worked on all the civic buttons for 2.5 but there was still some buttons we didn't have time to do. Well heres' the new graphcis for them

They are, Survival, Junta, reworked fascism one (as some folk mistook my fake black symbol so couldnt be included but - new one will leave nobody in doubt, Folklore, Federation, and a new button for Caste, then finally 'green' - with the old one im recommending to Zapp be used for Tribal. Hopefully this can make v2.6 too hehe if they all meet the uber modders approval

For anyone interested heres the other buttons (except for the Santa Claus holding a kid button forget that one!)

I'll let you guys get back onto the 2.6 discussion

 

[Hydromancerx]

Few of the changes I've made to the next version will probably affect how much money you'll be making as hopefully player will have to use higher culture rate to keep citizens happy. Besides that, I've been thinking of another change but not yet sure should or should not I try it - what if the costs of units starting from renaissance era are tripled or quadrupled (or even higher) and you could build every unit without resource requirements BUT with resources like sulphur, ammo, steel, aluminum, uranium etc. you could build those units faster ie. the cost would be cheaper. I think this would help AI players more than the other choice I've been thinking ie. the added gold cost to modern units.

I actually like it when say sulfur is not available to my civ or other civs. It forces me to use other units to compensate for the lack of it. Just like if you had no iron or copper. I also find that civs that don't have it when I do allow me to get an advantage over them when in the past i might not have been able to take them.

In short i think you should keep so you cannot build units if the resource is not available.

 

[xabninf]

First time posting, just like to say I love this mod it's the way Civ 4 should have been all along. Anyway some things I think would be cool for the next version:

Border Patrol it would work like exploring only the units stay confined within your borders looking for trouble like barbarians, enemy forces etc.

If you start a inquisition against a rival religion or raze a holy city, it should really p.o. the other civs that follow that faith, maby even start a war.

The A.I. is way to nuke happy.

Special Forces maby even gurilllas should be able to infiltrate other civ borders and cause mayhem of course if they get caught you've got a international incident on your hands.

I think Paratroopers should start with commando, thats thier function, drop behind enemy lines and conduct raids and such.

It sucks because A.I. starts a war gives a hard initial push into your border, if you break this initial assault your good they do'nt follow up all that well not sure if anything can be done about it though.

How about more leader heads for the existing ones, I think Theodore Rossevelt would be good for the U.S. you already added Leonidas and Marcus Araialus so thanks for that!

Maby some military options that could give a bonus for how your nation conducts war, like search and destroy, shock and awe, numbers are strength etc.

So thats my 2 cents not sure how much of this is useful, again great mod thanks for all the hard work.