Version 2.6 discussion

[Retrospect]

Hi,

Firstly i'd like to say what a fantastic Mod ROM is. Only recently downloaded it but gone through a full game already.

I did notice however that only grassland tiles were generated on the map and that no salt was generated on the entire globe. The whole map was grassland with the addition of forest/jungle/hills.

I'm pretty sure that this is related to the ROM Random map script chooser as that was the method I used to generate the map. I have since tried starting another game using a different method and it seems to generate all the other terrain types with no problem.

Also I did notice that the resource filters on the globe view were screwed on this same setting ie. coal and oil were under food etc.

Hope you can get this fixed as the Random mapscript chooser is the only setting I use.

Thanks for making civ the game it should have been

 

[Soddball]

I'll give this new update a whirl later on today. I'm very slow moving.

Also, Trebs being strong may be a slight exaggeration, but to be honest, if something weighs 22 tons, it's going to destroy a city...

I'm surprised that people would starve out the population, when you could just smash said castle/city with a catapult or Treb. I mean, nothing short of reinforced Concrete and Steel should be able to shrug off 3 ton boulders... Or whatever they fired. Seems like some people were just rude, and horribly inaccurate...

Any defensive circuit offers significant strength gains to defenders. Caesar's conquests of Gaul talk about using siege weapons. These were against wooden palisades and ditches, not stone walls.

Bear in mind that city defences are not small. The walls will be a minimum of 10 feet (3.3m) thick, with masonry front and rear and a rubble core (which absorbs the impact of siege shells).

At the 1688 siege of Vienna, Ottoman siege engines and mining breached the wall in several places, but the attackers were never able to take the city. This was in part due to constant counterattacks, rebuilding of defences with rubble, but also because a wall breach is not very wide, and the attackers will have to attack uphill through a narrow breach against a prepared position.

Substantial defensive circuits or castles were almost never taken except by betrayal. Harlech castle in Wales held out for eight years against besiegers.

Siege engines are overpowered but unless there is a 'siege' mechanism in place in Civ (which doesn't seem like an option) then I don't know what the alternative is.

 

[Carwyn]

Is there any update on a patch for 2.6 so that we can play it with RevDCM and Barbarian civs on? How is it going for people to play it otherwise? I'm pretty much waiting to switch to 2.6 (in spite of there being a few things I really like about it) until it is stable and I quit reading all the reports of crashes and am able to play with RevDCM and Barb civs. As it is, 2.5 is quite stable and enjoyable without having to reload and hope it will play through the crashes.

Thanks!

 

[zappara]

p.s.: zap, the logs are after i was able to resume the game using the steps i described.
As the bug occured the last two lines in PythonDbg.log were

PYlayer 50 Civilization Barbarian State Unit Trained dogs was killed by Player 27
PY: Revolt - The English City State are in their golden age!

I've been using the same method as you to locate the bugs in Barbarian civ component. Actually the golden age does not seem to be the problem, the real problem is with UNITAIs and possibly also with certain promotions. I'll have to direct my bug report about RevDCM to glider & jdog and hope they can help with those problems I've found. I've spent now some 30hours just for solving the Barbarian civ mod bug...

Is there any update on a patch for 2.6 so that we can play it with RevDCM and Barbarian civs on? How is it going for people to play it otherwise? I'm pretty much waiting to switch to 2.6 (in spite of there being a few things I really like about it) until it is stable and I quit reading all the reports of crashes and am able to play with RevDCM and Barb civs. As it is, 2.5 is quite stable and enjoyable without having to reload and hope it will play through the crashes.

Thanks!

There will be 2.61 patch once I get the barb civ component to work as it should. No release date yet as I don't know how long it will take to solve it (longer than I expected it would take).

 

[zappara]

So far the changes for version 2.61 are:

Spoiler :

Python
------
- Changed: BugPath.py module uses only mod folder when looking for ini or asset files, custom assets are ignored to avoid possible conflicts if BUG or any other mod is installed to that location
- Changed: Barbarian Civ component does not init units with preset Unit AIs (should fix one infinite loop problem)
- Fixed: BugUtil.py log to file function converts message to string. Fixes issues on some operating systems

Mapscripts
----------
- Fixed: RoM_Smartmap should save config file to Rise of Mankind folder, places now correctly Bauxite instead of Aluminum when certain conditions are met


Game Options
------------
- Changed: Barbarian Civ option visible again in Custom game menu so that it can be enabled, off by default

Promotions
----------
- Changed: Waidan no longer require Leader -> Promotion now useful for Taoism


Routes
------
- Added: Cart Path (2 moves)
- Added: Paved Road (req. stone, 4 moves)
- Added: Highway (req. oil products, 6 moves)
- Added: Electric Railroad (req. steel and copper, alternative for Railroad, req. Electronics, 10 moves for all units)
- Added: Maglev (req. copper, req. Maglev tech, 20 moves for all units)
- Added: Jumplane (can be built on water as well, does not allow land units to go through oceans but speeds up ships), req. Advanced Shielding, 40 moves for all units
- Changed: Road gives now 3 moves, no longer get multiple speed improvements, just one from Motorized Transportation (4 moves)
- Changed: Railroad requires steel


Units
-----
- Changed: Spearman str set back to 4 so that Barbarian civ component doesn't set Archers for city attack (which causes infinite loop)
- Changed: all worker units can build new route types
- Changed: all Wheeled units have now 1 gold / per turn upkeep cost (extra cost)
- Changed: all tracked units have now 1 or 2 gold / per turn upkeep cost (cost depends on how advanced unit or if it's light/heavy)
- Changed: all non-infantry Hi-Tech units have now 3 gold / per turn upkeep cost
- Changed: all helicopter units have now 1-3 gold / per turn upkeep cost
- Changed: all Steam ships have now 1 gold / per turn upkeep cost
- Changed: all Diesel ships have now 1 gold / per turn upkeep cost
- Changed: all Nuclear ships have now 2 gold / per turn upkeep cost
- Changed: Jet Planes and later planes have now 1 gold / per turn upkeep cost (except Remote controlled bombers)
- Changed: all Nukes have now 5 gold / per turn upkeep cost
- Changed: Mobile artillery and Rocket artillery have now 1 gold / per turn upkeep cost


Improvements
------------
- Changed: bonuses from route types adjusted for some improvements
- Changed: Bunker uses new graphics
- Fixed: removed few doubled improvement art defines

Events
------
- Changed: Interstate event builds now Modern Roads instead of Roads and triggered with Mass Transit (req. for Modern Road)
- Changed: Mother Lode event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Washed out event can happen with all new route types except Maglev and Jumplane
- Changed: Farm Bandits event can happen with all new route types except Maglev and Jumplane
- Changed: Farm Bandits Again event can happen with all new route types except Maglev and Jumplane
- Changed: Blizzard event can happen with all new route types (need to check that all suitable improvements are listed too?)
- Changed: Jade event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Clunker coal event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Running Bulls event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Horseshoe event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Holy Ritual event can happen with all new route types (need to check temples list too)
- Changed: Farm plows event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Marble Statues event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Hamburger Joint event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Fashion event can happen with all new route types except Cart Path
- Changed: Thoroughbred event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Girl's best friend event can happen with all new route types, Jewellery added to building check list
- Changed: Banana Split event can happen with all new route types except Cart Path
- Changed: Golden Buddha event can happen with Cart Path and Paved Road (event obsoletes before other route types available)
- Changed: Sandstorm event can happen with all new route types
- Changed: Hiyosilver event no longer place Road to plot (event can place 1 route type only and we can't be sure what choices player has available at this time and event can be triggered before player can build Roads)
- Changed: Antelope event no longer place Road to plot
- Changed: Impact Crater event triggered with Quantum Physics instead of Physics since this event places Uranium to plot, no longer place Road to plot
- Changed: Pasture built event no longer place Road to plot
- Changed: Spicy event no longer place Road to plot
- Changed: Wining monks event no longer place Road to plot

Config
------
- Changed: ForceGameOptions = 1, mod game options are read from xml always, not from CivilizationIV.ini. If player plays several different mods (or other RoM versions) which add new game options, this ensures that RoM will read from xml the default settings for it

Mod settings
------------
- Changed: Super Spies are enabled by default. This option should not be turned off as Trait Deceiver requires that Spies can gain promotions

Diplomacy
---------
- Changed: First Contact has now better support for modular civs (this is for Extra civ addon pack). If modular civ is added without merging its first contact info to main mod, the mod picks each time random first contact text for that civ

Note that I haven't yet solved all the Barbarian civ component bugs and thus this patch won't be released yet. The new route system that I had planned for v2.7 is now included in v2.61 as it seems to work just fine and I didn't want to delay it for months as I don't know how long it will take to make v2.7. I have posted bug report about RevDCM to glider and jdog and I'll have to wait for their response if I have actually found bugs caused by SDK (ie. the new dll).

 

[0100010]

I ran into an waiting for civs bug even though (supposedly) Barb Civ was off. when running a 2.6 Game. I've kind of wondered if it was really off though. BarbCiv does not appear in the custom game options, however on the pop up options menu BarbCiv shows up as green. Though also, I've played the game where it occurred up to 600 BC and never saw any barb civs spawn either.

Another Issue:
I had Start as minors turned on, and even though a neighbor gained Writing after I did, they never showed up on the score/diplomacy list. I was able to conduct diplomacy with them, but I had to do it via right clicking their leader icon from the Foreign Adviser screen. However this is not a solution to everything, as for example if you have enough espionage to know what a Civ is researching they only way to tell is from the text on their sore list.

 

[conley]

hey guys, i`ve got question: how to switch off event signs - ie: parrots in cages...? btw, great mod!!

 

[Retrospect]

I ran into an waiting for civs bug even though (supposedly) Barb Civ was off. when running a 2.6 Game. I've kind of wondered if it was really off though. BarbCiv does not appear in the custom game options, however on the pop up options menu BarbCiv shows up as green. Though also, I've played the game where it occurred up to 600 BC and never saw any barb civs spawn either.

Another Issue:
I had Start as minors turned on, and even though a neighbor gained Writing after I did, they never showed up on the score/diplomacy list. I was able to conduct diplomacy with them, but I had to do it via right clicking their leader icon from the Foreign Adviser screen. However this is not a solution to everything, as for example if you have enough espionage to know what a Civ is researching they only way to tell is from the text on their sore list.

I'm having a similar problem now where I can't turn off BarbarianCivs, also any settings that I now change in the Bugmod setup do not actually change anymore..... for example I want to turn on Archer Bombardment, I check the box in RevDCM but archers still cannot bombard, also when I reload the game the box is no longer checked.

I've tried deleting the .ini files from the beyondthesword folder in documents and settings as suggested but that does not help. I've even tried reinstalling ROM again, but again to no avail.... short of reinstalling the entire game i'm not sure what to do

 

[Ogaburan]

AM i missing it or 2.61 is not downloadable yet?

 

[Retrospect]

AM i missing it or 2.61 is not downloadable yet?

2.61 isn't out yet... pending the fix on BarbCiv

 

[0100010]

Hi,

Firstly i'd like to say what a fantastic Mod ROM is. Only recently downloaded it but gone through a full game already.

I did notice however that only grassland tiles were generated on the map and that no salt was generated on the entire globe. The whole map was grassland with the addition of forest/jungle/hills.

I'm pretty sure that this is related to the ROM Random map script chooser as that was the method I used to generate the map. I have since tried starting another game using a different method and it seems to generate all the other terrain types with no problem.

Also I did notice that the resource filters on the globe view were screwed on this same setting ie. coal and oil were under food etc.

Hope you can get this fixed as the Random mapscript chooser is the only setting I use.

Thanks for making civ the game it should have been

That was probably the random map script. Id suggest picking a map script that you like instead of a random one.

I once asked the same thing about resources in the worldbuilder luxury/general/food categories. Unfortunately not much can be done, the worldbuilder categories a resource as luxury if it gives happy bonuses, food if it gives health bonuses, and general if it gives neither. However it does not distinguish if though bonuses were negative or positive. therefore coal and oil with their (negative) health bonus, get categorized as "food".

 

[Retrospect]

That was probably the random map script. Id suggest picking a map script that you like instead of a random one.

I once asked the same thing about resources in the worldbuilder luxury/general/food categories. Unfortunately not much can be done, the worldbuilder categories a resource as luxury if it gives happy bonuses, food if it gives health bonuses, and general if it gives neither. However it does not distinguish if though bonuses were negative or positive. therefore coal and oil with their (negative) health bonus, get categorized as "food".

I can handle the filters not working properly as it's just a minor inconvenience..... but the map script is something i can't live without as for me civ is all about randomness, I randomize literally everything possible, games are so mouch more fun that way and Random Mapscript Chooser is the best method for randomising maps.

 

[ravenone]

I just noticed Spy promotions are not showing up now in the latest version. Any idea how to turn on? I have a spy sitting with 3/2 and have no option to add promotions anymore

 

[SaberSix]

I have a Quad Q6600 with 4GB but my AIW PCIe 2006 video card only has 256MB not the recommended 500MB. When I load a saved game I sometimes get the memory allocation error (it seems to vary by file) and a CTD.

At what level of terrain detail and what size map can I safely play ROM2.6?

PS, I am running XP Pro SP2.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I just noticed Spy promotions are not showing up now in the latest version. Any idea how to turn on? I have a spy sitting with 3/2 and have no option to add promotions anymore

Turn on the super spy options in the BUG options screen REVDCM tab.

 

[ravenone]

Turn on the super spy options in the BUG options screen REVDCM tab.

ah. thanks!

 

[Kalimakhus]

@Zappara

When a worker is on a plot with apple resource the button for building an apple orchard is not available. I haven't tried if the short-cut works because I don't remember it.

 

[zappara]

hey guys, i`ve got question: how to switch off event signs - ie: parrots in cages...? btw, great mod!!

From BUG option pages somewhere, ctrl+alt+o.

I'm having a similar problem now where I can't turn off BarbarianCivs, also any settings that I now change in the Bugmod setup do not actually change anymore..... for example I want to turn on Archer Bombardment, I check the box in RevDCM but archers still cannot bombard, also when I reload the game the box is no longer checked.

I've tried deleting the .ini files from the beyondthesword folder in documents and settings as suggested but that does not help. I've even tried reinstalling ROM again, but again to no avail.... short of reinstalling the entire game i'm not sure what to do

Open Rise of Mankind.ini and set ForceGameOptions = 1. This ensures that game reads game options from mod's xml files and not from CivilizationIV.ini which might hold old settings from earlier mod versions.

About Archer Bombardment, I think you'll have to check also Reset RevDCM option and the new settings should apply on the next turn (I'm not entirely sure how this new RevDCM system works). Manually you can set Archer Bombard on by editing RevolutionDCM.ini and setting it there to True (or 1, can't remember what type setting it was).

@Zappara

When a worker is on a plot with apple resource the button for building an apple orchard is not available. I haven't tried if the short-cut works because I don't remember it.

That's odd. Got to check the unit xml file...

 

[0100010]

some minor changes and oddities

from 2.6:
Storms have all but disappeared on 200x400 (larger than gigantic) map I am playing by the time I got to 200 BC (snail speed) The reason for this is your disappearance rate is much higher than your growth/appearance rate therefore eventually they will all go away. In order to have an even balance of appearance and disappearance the values have to be equal. (if appearance is higher than disappearance then eventually they wll be everywhere) If possible you still might try to find a way to randomly spawn and despawn them in the ocean every one in a while anyway independently of whatever code handles the feature info's appearance/disappearance values, otherwise they will always turn into clustered groups even if using equal values.



Since workboats cant scout any more, you might as well remove the explore option from their unit/build commands. Also, the AI still tries to make them explore.

An odditiy, may require further investigating. You had changed the base unit moves of ancient ships to 1, (till compass) yet when I switched to an AI their workboats could move at a base rate of 2 even though the only navel tech they had so far was fishing and sailing.

 

[zappara]

Storms
- it's actually growth & disappearance values that are used during the game. Appearance is used only when generating the map. I tried several different combinations for those values and with higher growth values the game usually filled all ocean and coast plots with storms which is not what we want - I know it's not perfect and the amount of storms varies a lot depending on your map type/size. Also because one storm can spawn several storms to adjutant plots, the numbers can not be set equal (each plot has its own chance of getting storm if there's storm next to it).

NoUnitAIs for workboats have been already set in v2.6 and yes I know AI tries to use them to explore. There's nothing I can do about it as it must be hardcoded to game that AIs should use any ship available for exploring (as human player would do).

Actually I changed terrain movement cost to 2 for coast and 3 for ocean and unit movement rates stayed the same as before. Cities still allow +1 extra move for ships in this system ie. it's like road... don't know if that can be changed anywhere.