Version 2.6 discussion

Retrospect · Mar 30, 2009

Carwyn said:
I've reset my cache, redownloaded RoM 6.2 full and installed it. I turned off the Revolutions module and have been playing a game. So far I've crashed to desktop twice. Version 2.5 has been perfectly stable, but I really like some of the changes for 2.6 and I want to play it with the Rev mod on... any hope of curing these two problems? (I know it's being worked on, hoping for some sort of guess at how long. )

Thanks!

Got a feeling you have the same problem that I did. You think you are turning off components of the mod by using Ctrl-Alt-O when infact the game is reading ini files that you have no effect over. Try this

Originally Posted by zappara View Post
Open Rise of Mankind.ini and set ForceGameOptions = 1. This ensures that game reads game options from mod's xml files and not from CivilizationIV.ini which might hold old settings from earlier mod versions.

You should be able to run with Revolutions on but I would uncheck BarbCiv and Start as minor Civ until the patch somes out.

SaberSix · Mar 30, 2009

I have minimized the magnitude of problems with vanilla RoM 2.6 but I still have CTD's sometimes when reloading a game (even with shift held down) but not at such a level as to be intolerable and a complete restart allows me to load that save.

Have most people been able to get this to work without problems? I have down what is within my capability so if it is possible to eliminate the CTD's, I sure would appreciate help with my error log files which I have uploaded. I don't understand well enough what to look for. (If barb civs are the problem I would turn them off but I don't know how.)

I have been playing Civ since the original Civ and CivNet but only the vanilla versions and never any mods, so mods are new to me. I like the RoM changes to make it more realistic.

I think I am missing some documentation of changes. For instance, my workers were building roads and came to the city border edge and the roads icon was grayed out. At first I thought the change was to make roads like other improvements - only build-able within borders, but then I figured out is was just that I was out of money. I searched for info on this change with no joy. Did I miss it or are some changes just not documented?

Thanks in advance for any help on the logs.

zappara · Apr 1, 2009

Version 2.61:

Spoiler :

I haven't been able to fix Barbarian civ component's 'waiting for other civs' bug and also found out that Revolution component causes the same bug so for this reason these components are totally disabled from v2.61 and I hope they get fixed in some future patch. I've spent some 40 hours for just trying to figure out those bugs and failed, so I'm taking break from them. All I know about them that it's related to AI's decision making, which also is all done in DLL.

Download Rise of Mankind patch 2.61

0100010 · Apr 1, 2009

How then will those of us willing to suffer the bug and perform the workaround when it occurs, be able to turn those components on for a game? I get not having them turned on by default, but Id like to be able to risk the bug and turn them on anyway.

On another note, I have found that sometimes when I thought a waiting for Civs bug occurred, that the AI was just taking a really long time to finish their turn. (IE 15 minutes or more). I was able to confirm this by noticing a few other symptoms when it appears.

I've found that, if you can scroll and click on the menu, cities, etc. despite the fact that the cursor is a spinning world, then you have encountered the bug. If you can't scroll the map or select things when you have a spinning world cursor then the computer is just taking a really long time to finish.

A condensed version of the workaround for when you encounter the bug is as follows (at least it has worked for me)

Make sure that you have turned on logging in the game ini settings. When you encounter the bug (verified as above via the ability to scroll and click on stuff), review your python Debug log. Then read up from the bottom of the log to find out which AI was in the middle of their turn when when the bug occurred (IE the very last one mentioned). Use Ctrl-Shift-L to switch to that AI (yes you can do it even though your cursor is still a spinning world.) Your cursor is still a spinning world but you now control the AI with the problem. You should be able to take this AI's turn (make sure you move all their units until each has 0 moves left) You will notice that the End Turn green/red circle is not visible, but it should become visible after you have moved all units to the point where their moves remaining is 0. (You might have to wait 30 seconds or so after doing this for the end turn button to appear.) At this point, the end turn button should appear and the cursor should switch back to a normal state. If not, you can also try changing a civic so the AI enters Anarchy to see if that helps. At this point, use Ctrl-Alt-L to switch back to your Civ. (without clicking on the end turn button/hitting enter to end turn)

This is similar to the workaround previously reported, but involves less reloading of the game (none in fact) and also avoids having to give control of your civ to the AI before the actual end of your turn. (because the AI just loves to change your carefully selected Civics when you do that...

)

zappara · Apr 1, 2009

0100010 said:
How then will those of us willing to suffer the bug and perform the workaround when it occurs, be able to turn those components on for a game? I get not having them turned on by default, but Id like to be able to risk the bug and turn them on anyway.

The new version forces the mod to load game options always from xml and there those options are off by default. This however affects only new games. You can edit GameOptions.xml file and set those options back to visible so that they show in custom game menu, I just rather have them be invisible for the time being because that will result as less bug reports about the same thing I already know about. You could also modify tester.py and enable there python line for 'waitinforciv popup' (don't remember line number now, it was mentioned in RevDCM thread on modpacks section) which allows you to see with ctrl+shift+e which civ is currently active at the time the bug occurred. I used this a lot during testing and bug hunting.

SaberSix · Apr 1, 2009

I had installed RoM 1.03 and 2.53 before installing 2.6. I don't not remember any problems with 1.03 but I only played it briefly.

When I installed later versions I just renamed the directory for the earlier one,for example Rise of Mankind to Rise of Mankind 103 - but then I had problems so I uninstalled BTS and Warlords and all the mods and cleared out files remaining in associated directories after the uninstall.

I then only installed BTS, Warlords and RoM2.6

I see that the RoM2.61 patch instructions say I have to have RoM2.5 installed first.

So do I have to uninstall everything again and then install RoM2.5 and its patches and then RoM2.6 and then the RoM2.61 patch?

zappara · Apr 1, 2009

You can install v2.6 full and then patch it with v2.61. The new patch works for both v2.5 and v2.6. Note that mod folder name must be exactly 'Rise of Mankind' so do not change it after installation or the mod won't work.

Edit: changed patch info from the download as it was bit misleading... now says it works for full 2.6 and 2.5

SaberSix · Apr 1, 2009

Thanks for the quick clarification. I'll give it a go especially as I don't particularly care about barb civs.

Munger · Apr 1, 2009

Thanks as always for the new release zap!

I LOVE the new road types. So historically realistic whilst simultaneously adding lots of fun and flavour to the game. And it certainly keeps those workers busy!

Axil · Apr 1, 2009

zappara said:
The new version forces the mod to load game options always from xml and there those options are off by default. This however affects only new games. You can edit GameOptions.xml file and set those options back to visible so that they show in custom game menu, I just rather have them be invisible for the time being because that will result as less bug reports about the same thing I already know about. You could also modify tester.py and enable there python line for 'waitinforciv popup' (don't remember line number now, it was mentioned in RevDCM thread on modpacks section) which allows you to see with ctrl+shift+e which civ is currently active at the time the bug occurred. I used this a lot during testing and bug hunting.

where do I find GameOptions.xml as I've just done a search and it's come up empty

0100010 · Apr 1, 2009

I believe its GameOptionsInfo.xml

Axil · Apr 1, 2009

Thanks found it

Had to download notepad++ to edit it though (have fairly basic win 7 install atm

Dancing Hoskuld · Apr 1, 2009

@Zappara, I am playing 2.61 and my workers can't upgrade a cart path to road. I can build roads where there aren't any cart paths.

As a thought, would it be possible to merge the missionary sounds patch I made into your mod? And maybe the Abandon City Demolish Building mod

. It would save people having to apply the patch and update each time. I am working on a new version of the Abandon City mod - I have already found out how to make the mod work with most mods without worrying about that hard coded number in it. I am now extending it further to produce either workers (original) or settlers (what was in the RoM 2.5 version) based on an .ini file.

I will be checking the xml for the wonder movies to see if I need a new version for this patch. I really must write a program to check this for me

cr0ws · Apr 1, 2009

Well, I figure since 2.52 didn't have the waiting turn glitch until 2.6 was introduced, there has to be some type of incompatibility with 2 or more mod components. Perhaps the new version of bugmod is messing another mini mod's function up? Too many changes all at once without proper testing has made a mess of things. I suggest going back to 2.52 and adding new 2.6 changes bit by bit to pinpoint which ones are faulty. Otherwise this problem mite take much longer to resolve than it has to while placing blame on components that aren't causing it, if they even get resolved at this stage.

zappara · Apr 2, 2009

Dancing Hoskuld said:
@Zappara, I am playing 2.61 and my workers can't upgrade a cart path to road. I can build roads where there aren't any cart paths.

As a thought, would it be possible to merge the missionary sounds patch I made into your mod? And maybe the Abandon City Demolish Building mod . It would save people having to apply the patch and update each time. I am working on a new version of the Abandon City mod - I have already found out how to make the mod work with most mods without worrying about that hard coded number in it. I am now extending it further to produce either workers (original) or settlers (what was in the RoM 2.5 version) based on an .ini file.

I will be checking the xml for the wonder movies to see if I need a new version for this patch. I really must write a program to check this for me

That's odd. Did you have enough gold to build roads? Only carth paths can be built without gold.

The missionary sounds and possibly also abandon city mod will be added to next version ie. 2.7. I think few changes are required to Abandon mod: first it should check if player has techs that allow him to build colonists or pioneers and when city is abandoned, he'll get those units instead of settlers. Second thing is that there should some kind of penalty for demolishing buildings (gold?) and cultural penalty on nearby plots if city is razed.

cr0ws said:
Well, I figure since 2.52 didn't have the waiting turn glitch until 2.6 was introduced, there has to be some type of incompatibility with 2 or more mod components. Perhaps the new version of bugmod is messing another mini mod's function up? Too many changes all at once without proper testing has made a mess of things. I suggest going back to 2.52 and adding new 2.6 changes bit by bit to pinpoint which ones are faulty. Otherwise this problem mite take much longer to resolve than it has to while placing blame on components that aren't causing it, if they even get resolved at this stage.

The bug actually occurred between 2.6alpha and 2.6001beta and between those versions the following changes were made:

Spoiler :

Advanced combat odds and Better BtS AI are actually hardcoded to RevDCM 1.00 so can't affect them other than can disable ACO from BUG options. v2.6alpha used RevDCM 0.97 and once I upgraded it to v1.00 I had to combine all the changes from it at once or the mod wouldn't have worked at all. I have also tested v2.52 promotions with this and the bug occurred with them as well, so those changes can be ruled out from the cause of the bug list.

Kalimakhus · Apr 2, 2009

@Zappara

In my first game with 2.61, I still got the waiting for other civs infinite loop. I will try a new game to see if it will happen again.

I have played several games with RevolutionDCM on its own and in my personal experience never had the infinite loop issue. I am sure it is a matter of incompatibility. i.e. something in REV doesn't work well with RoM. You may ask JDog if there is any hardcoded references in the DLL to combat, or units types or anything like that.

Retrospect · Apr 2, 2009

zappara said:
The missionary sounds and possibly also abandon city mod will be added to next version ie. 2.7. I think few changes are required to Abandon mod: first it should check if player has techs that allow him to build colonists or pioneers and when city is abandoned, he'll get those units instead of settlers. Second thing is that there should some kind of penalty for demolishing buildings (gold?) and cultural penalty on nearby plots if city is razed.

Been playing with this add on and really like it, however the missionary sounds seem a little loud compared to the originals, so much so that you can hear when the sample begins and ends. (If you know what i mean)

I personally think that a gold penalty is sufficeint for the raze building function, could this be tied into the hammer cost for that particular building?? ie. bigger the building bigger the cost to demolish.

zappara · Apr 2, 2009

Kalimakhus said:
@Zappara

In my first game with 2.61, I still got the waiting for other civs infinite loop. I will try a new game to see if it will happen again.

I have played several games with RevolutionDCM on its own and in my personal experience never had the infinite loop issue. I am sure it is a matter of incompatibility. i.e. something in REV doesn't work well with RoM. You may ask JDog if there is any hardcoded references in the DLL to combat, or units types or anything like that.

So it's still lurking there, it just didn't show up in my test runs. So if it can occur without revolution components, then it must be caused something else that affects AI. Solving this would be easy if those logs actually showed some useful hints about what went wrong but there's nothing odd in them... One thing that I'm currently suspecting is the rev index changes in civic options, RoM uses them in wider variety than RevDCM and I'll have to test settings as close to RevDCM's default values as possible. Another thing is Inquisitions but I've checked it couple times and it should work just like in RevDCM and I've tested it in-game that inquisitors work.

I don't think RevDCM has any hardcoded referencies to any game objects, the actual referencies are done in python (RevDefs.py file) and RoM has all the BtS buildings/units included, though stats have been changed for almost all.

Retrospect · Apr 2, 2009

zappara said:
Here's the fixed map script, unzip it to publicmaps directory in 'Rise of Mankind' folder. Took bit longer, couple hours, to fix it as there was several problems with it but I think I got them all fixed (I hope). I tested it with standard, giant and gigantic map sizes. Let me know if you run into new problems with it.

Tested the mapscript in world builder before I started a game and all looked well. But on the game I realised there was no salt. So I've been in world builder and loaded up a few maps. Huge size with climate and sea level set to random.

There was 2 ocassions out of roughly 10 when salt was not generated at all. There was 1 instance where it generated only 1 salt. I thought this was linked to cold climates but after trying again with climate set to cold there was plenty of salt.

Not exactly a conclusive test but I hope it helps to narrow down the problem.

P.S All this is assuming that salt should be generated on every map.

Retrospect · Apr 2, 2009

zappara said:
So it's still lurking there, it just didn't show up in my test runs. So if it can occur without revolution components, then it must be caused something else that affects AI. Solving this would be easy if those logs actually showed some useful hints about what went wrong but there's nothing odd in them... One thing that I'm currently suspecting is the rev index changes in civic options, RoM uses them in wider variety than RevDCM and I'll have to test settings as close to RevDCM's default values as possible. Another thing is Inquisitions but I've checked it couple times and it should work just like in RevDCM and I've tested it in-game that inquisitors work.

I don't think RevDCM has any hardcoded referencies to any game objects, the actual referencies are done in python (RevDefs.py file) and RoM has all the BtS buildings/units included, though stats have been changed for almost all.

Been reading the posts about the infinite loop bug and from a laymans point of veiw could this be the problem?? - Updated: Better BtS AI 0.60N

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