Version 2.7 discussion

[Dancing Hoskuld]

1) I think incense in desert is ridiculous. As far as I know, incense comes from plants. and desert tile makes incense lame.

Most incense does come from plants and most of those are found in arid areas. In Civ you don't (yet) have arid as apposed to desert tiles.

2) Why rice with farm provides +1 food while corn and wheat provides +2? (and even potato provides +3)

I have always wondered about this also. There is a building which greatly boosts the amount of food you get from rice.

4) Pearl provides +1 food, +2 commerce (Am I right? I cannot remeber exactly.)
Do we get food from pearl? I don't think so.
I think new improvement for pearl is needed.
(Because fishing boat gets +1 food with sonar technology)

We don't get the food now because we either throw away the oyster or reseed it for more pearls - in the past I would expect that they would have been eaten as well as provided pearls.

5) Why gem, gold, silver with mine makes -1 production?

Because you can't make tools with these until modern times would be my guess.

6) Mountain tiles should be usable.

Default in Civ IV - there have been mods which make them usable by a city but not passible "MacuPicu" (sp?) for example. Other mods have allowed advance workers to build tunnels making them passible and them allowed mines on them.

Of course, I know these things can be changed with xml very easily,
(except new improvement for pearl and 6.)
but I want to hear opinions..
and want to see "official" changes for these

Looks like an excelent reason to learn how to mod and then post a modmod here for the rest of us to use if we like it. If it were modular we could pick and choose. If it is good and fits with what Zappara wants then maybe it will get included in the base RoM sometime in the future.

 

[climat]

There is a building which greatly boosts the amount of food you get from rice.

Do you mean 'artesian well' ? but it would be obsolete and it can be used (or really used) for corn and wheat also in real world, I think. I just wanted to point 'original' benefit from resources. (BTW, bakery doesn't accept rice for its prerequisite. Bakery with rice.. Is it ridiculous?)

Because you can't make tools with these until modern times would be my guess.

Ah.. I was thinking "Mining = Production". (I tended to think production = industry, so I thought sheep and fur should give +1 production. Maybe we can have new manufactured resources such as wool or new corporations using these resources and providing production. In same reason, I thought about benefits from tannery.)

Looks like an excelent reason to learn how to mod and then post a modmod here for the rest of us to use if we like it. If it were modular we could pick and choose.

I can change just easy things in xml. Even I don't know each function of tags exactly.
I didn't have intention to provide my modmod.. I just wanted to hear opinions to my questions about resources. (I had questions about incense and rice from the time I play vanila Civ4 )

 

[climat]

They already are if you build the Djenne Mosque near one.

Dose it make all mountain tiles usable?

 

[konradcabral]

It was just thatthe others are ancient buildings while the baker is renassiance. Thinking on it I am not sure that the proposed supermarket upgrade is the way to go. Currently there is no maintenance on buildings so the idea of upgrading lacks need - it makes no difference. That is if the upgrade has all the boni of the things it upgrades and its own. If not then building it may not be worth the effort because you will loose something. Having the buildings go obsolete with the tech may be the go instead.

My idea of upgrade fits the quick development of new cities. The way I posted, buiding a supermarket would be the same to build a fish hut, then a butchery, then a bakery. Scale economy. Edit:Forgot to say: obsolete food buildings wouldn't be nice, would bring cities to starvation.

Why? Well someone found these cute graphics and then needed to find a reason to use them in Civ .

Not satisfying to me...

Well I still build hydro dams while waiting for the T.G. Dam to be built and latter to get rid of some of those annoying icons in the build lists

What about the broadcast towers? Do you build them? I build T.G Dam more quickly than a single plant, because I always rush with Free Market.
BTW, is possible to create a code that checks if city has "dirty" power, and offers only "clean" power plants, and other that checks if it has "clean" power and offers no
more plants? About that, we agree completely. Those icons are annoying!

 

[Arakhor]

Oh yeah. If dirty power sources could be removed if you have the TG Dam, I'd be very grateful!

 

[Bezhukov]

Dose it make all mountain tiles usable?

Not really, but they can be worked for two/three commerce if they are on desert tiles.

 

[jimbowl]

EDIT: Found my answer with a search

 

[CivEikka]

Another thing that would be nice is the ability to transfer food and people (for least) from city to another.

 

[JanissaryRush]

The Civs with Seafaring are very disadvantaged on heavily based land maps. They should have a another trait that takes over if you play on that kind of map.

With slavery if your cities are very loosely defended given their size it could have a chance of a slave revolt happening like in Spartacus, the soldiers would only be warroirs. If the revolt fails the city shouldn't get the benefit of improved harvesting for a few turns as the slaves need to be replenished.

5) Why gem, gold, silver with mine makes -1 production?

Worker spend a lot of time harvesting those stuff which don't help with general production instead of stuff that does, plus more of the hill is taken up by gem,gold,silver leaving less aviable to production harvesting.

Another thing that would be nice is the ability to transfer food and people (for least) from city to another.

Sounds like a move towards colonization, I'd worry that it might create too much micro management involved. You could be continually going back and forth checking over the food situations in all cities in addition to the regular duties.

If food is moved it should result in some kind of disadvantage for the city as food isn't as healthy or tastes as good as fresh food.

Moving people in any form would naturally be unusuable for lots of civics. It would also result in massive unhappiness, for not just those people and both cities. The whole empire would also be very mad, due to the principle and the worry that they could be next. It would start rioting, disorder and would require military units to carry out, those units would be unusuable for the next few turns as they'd be occupied moving people .

It would also cause more inefficiencies, cities just aren't ready to hold a huge influx of people all of a sudden, plus the people won't work as hard. It would subside over time, those people maybe treated as conquered ones. All not working and each turn another 1 will work and the quality of work will improve over time as well.

If your playing revolution it would be a huge jump towards it and could lead to way more people joining the rebels.

Great people if moved might also suffer penalties in quality of work.

Im not saying its a bad idea, just if it were to be implemented it should have lots of reprecutions.

 

[vincentz]

Moving people...

I'm thinking national or world wonders like
Exodos (Religious)
Gulag (Communism)
and the nasty one
Concentration camps (Fascism and Nationalism) removes foriegn culture at a population loss and a HUGE negative worldwide diplomacy penalty. (resulting in war)

 

[CivEikka]

Sounds like a move towards colonization, I'd worry that it might create too much micro management involved. You could be continually going back and forth checking over the food situations in all cities in addition to the regular duties.

If food is moved it should result in some kind of disadvantage for the city as food isn't as healthy or tastes as good as fresh food.

Moving people in any form would naturally be unusuable for lots of civics. It would also result in massive unhappiness, for not just those people and both cities. The whole empire would also be very mad, due to the principle and the worry that they could be next. It would start rioting, disorder and would require military units to carry out, those units would be unusuable for the next few turns as they'd be occupied moving people .

It would also cause more inefficiencies, cities just aren't ready to hold a huge influx of people all of a sudden, plus the people won't work as hard. It would subside over time, those people maybe treated as conquered ones. All not working and each turn another 1 will work and the quality of work will improve over time as well.

If your playing revolution it would be a huge jump towards it and could lead to way more people joining the rebels.

Great people if moved might also suffer penalties in quality of work.

Im not saying its a bad idea, just if it were to be implemented it should have lots of reprecutions.

Like the moving food produce would be +5 from city a (like a trade route) and +3 from city b. Then there should be chance that you could buy food (by diplomacy) from other civilizations. (Like Africa nowadays, and China.)

The moving people would be realistic, like moving the civillians from the frontier behind the front or when you are building colonists (to the new continent/piece of land) you would -2 pop from the city that created the colonist unit and then produce 2 units which can be settled for 1pop/unit, to get more population for new cities.

 

[CMKMStephens]

How about this for a national wonder:

The New Zealand Company:

- Can only be built on an island or continent that your capital is NOT located on
- Provides fast population growth (like 60-70% storage?)
- However costs maintenance
- 3 unhappiness: 2 of 'This isn't what we expected!' and 1 'Get off our land!' XD
- Obsoleted fairly quickly

 

[newzarb]

I guys! I've started playing RoM a couple months ago and I must say it rocks!

I don't know if this has been posted before because I didn't find it anywhere. I wanted to see how far can city population go. It didn't take me long to find that at level 190ish, population overflows and become negative. Maximum seems to be 2^31 (which would make sense on a 32 bit system) = about 2 billion then is goes back to (-2^31)+1 population. Also, I was far from the max level of population in this city.



I know it would probably never happen in a real game, but doens't this mean city improvments and such give too much food? It may need to be nerfed in 2.7. ^^

 

[Hyronymus]

Or how about this for a national wonder:

National Water Board:

- Can only be built on a city on a river or on the coast
- Prevents floods wiping out infrastructure
- +1 happiness in all cities
- Never obsoleted
- Prereq. tech: early waterworks
- Also needs floods to occur more often to be interesting to construct

Background information:
The fight against the water in The Netherlands resulted in one of the earliest legislative and executive councils in the world. From the 13th century the Dutch citizens were initially ordered to reinforce dikes and dams at no cost for the safety of the country, supervised by a "Dijkgraaf" (Dike Count). Later on this evolved into a national system of taxation of citizens to pay for the upkeep and construction of dikes and dams.

After the deadly flood of 1953 the Dutch government launched the "Delta Works": a strategic plan to conquer the water with the newest technologies. The milestone of the Delta Works was the opening of the Oosterscheldekering in 1986 by Her Majesty Queen Beatrix of The Netherlands.

To date, water boards still exist in The Netherlands.

 

[Arakhor]

Heh. In Mylon's Mega Mod, the city radius is greatly expanded and cities can become far, far bigger

 

[newzarb]

Ah well I didn't know that mod. But since I'm coming from classical BtS, I wasn't used to such big food income

 

[Arakhor]

Well, not bigger than 190 obviously, but much bigger than you might easily expect: 30 -40 and upwards.

 

[Bezhukov]

Well, not bigger than 190 obviously, but much bigger than you might easily expect: 30 -40 and upwards.

By the end of my games, most of my cities are well into the 50's/60's on regular RoM. Sid's Sush is broken in half.

 

[Afforess]

I guys! I've started playing RoM a couple months ago and I must say it rocks!

I don't know if this has been posted before because I didn't find it anywhere. I wanted to see how far can city population go. It didn't take me long to find that at level 190ish, population overflows and become negative. Maximum seems to be 2^31 (which would make sense on a 32 bit system) = about 2 billion then is goes back to (-2^31)+1 population.

I know it would probably never happen in a real game, but doens't this mean city improvments and such give too much food? It may need to be nerfed in 2.7. ^^

Simple solution, use more ICBM's! They can cut the population in half, instantly!

 

[newzarb]

1 billion dead with a single bomb...