Version 2.8 discussion

Dancing Hoskuld · Aug 4, 2009

Afforess said:
I agree with Aaranda. RoM does need more Corporations and and Wonders. I think the amount of religions a game starts with should scale based on the map size. Small maps could have 4-5 religions, whereas large or huge maps could have 13-15 religions.

That would be nice as would a similar scaling on the number of guilds and corporations. I would like it if my "missing movies mod" could be included, but the movies are big. I have not been able to test some with 2.71 of them because I have not managed to get that far in a game and I much prefer playing to testing

. I am thinking of merging them all into one file again and putting them with my other mods.

darkedone02 · Aug 4, 2009

AAranda said:
Many of that things already exist or are in process
You can have a look at Vincentz corporations mod , and try his unfinished guilds mod
You ca also have alook to my corporations mod at this link : http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12867

i already know about that, but i'm just saying that we need an economical system into this game now. For example, a monopoly? what about more resources where I gain gold when a company traded me raw materials, and i make them and ship them back? I want different ways to gain money besides caravan's, and try to make the trade routes more... better.

aender · Aug 5, 2009

what we need are canals..............the game i'm playing now both continents are pole to pole with only one spot where a simple fort or 2 would allow passage from one sea to the other, luckily i started at that junction and well after what is it mathematics or whatever have had a fort there but my rivals dont have access to it because its mine and well quite frankly i'm not allowing open borders for this reason alone, but if we could build actual canals it would solve this problem.......idk if possible tho cause would have to be able to route them like a road cause at times they may have to be as big as 5 or 6 tiles i think...lol i may also be the only one who has this problem tho as i have to use small maps to avoid mafs and i use low sea levels to get a few more cities in

also someone mentioned restricting the number of religions per map size..i think would be a bad idea.......i mean i use limited religions and on a small map with 6 civs normally get about 8 to 10 religions in game without them being restricted...which is also the reason i use choose religions option because it opens up all of them to being available and not the same 8 every game

zappara · Aug 5, 2009

Things so far added/changed for v2.8

Spoiler :

Note that some changes might not stay as they are now listed above as they need testing to find good values (civics + game defines especially). I've already tested these a bit and it does seem harder now - cities grow slower so slavery isn't so good, happiness is harder to increase as religious temples only increase happiness from state religion (AIs seem to aim for different religions more now) and trade route nerf does affect just about everything.

DRJ said:
I confirm this point of view, I did consumed RoM the same way a long time.
On the other hand, there should be two things:

-A base RoM version 2.8 for example, which has all 'established' and tested ModMods included in unloaded module folder (or better: included in the loaded module folder as I would enable them the sec I play RoM 2.8 the first time^^)

-A organized ModMod Database (as Zap allready started!),
in which there is a frequently updated, downloadable merged archive (rar/zip) version of all ModMods listed in the Database.
Huge sized modmod components should be presented in a seperate pack, though.

On the other hand, if RoM includes the huge ModMods and gets 500 MB large, it wouldn't be a prob for me, the lesser downloads the better.

And btw.: the larger RoM gets, the closer I feel to Civ 5...

I think this might be good way. In all previous RoM versions I've included other mods and mod components so I might add some RoM modmods to base RoM as well because there's a lot of great quality modmods

astrac · Aug 5, 2009

Hi Zap,

there is one thing I noticed while playing RoM 2.71 and one Idea which would be great if included in v 2.8:

1. If a cart path is build on a hill, it gives the usual move bonus of the road (1/2) - which in my understanding it shouldn't.
At least my workers can move on a forest hill with a carth path over two hills in one round.
(But why not, if you at least have a cart path, one can move faster over a forest or hill, so: feature or "bug"?)

2. It would be great to have the roads restriction Idea included in RoM, like described in this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=329217

This would give RoM and Civ 4 a great new tactical depth!

Looking forward for 2.8!

Greetings,

astrac

AAranda · Aug 5, 2009

zappara said:
Things so far added/changed for v2.8

Units
-----
- Added: Modern Workboat, upgrades to Constructor Ship
- Added: Constructor Ship
- Added: Hybrid Gunship, upgrades to Dropship
- Added ...

Are you plannig to remake galleys and triremes unable to travel open sea? I really think this thing is quite necessarary

zappara said:
Buildings
-------------
- Added: Communication Satellites
- Added: Military Satellites
- Changed: Nanite Lab requires Nanotubes
- Changed: Fisherman's Hut AIWeight 10 -> 100
- Changed: Butchery AIWeight 0 -> 100
- Changed: All religious Temples give happiness only from State religion
- Changed: Meeting Hall 1 unhealthiness from Alcohol

Adding this encorage you did to fisherman's and butchery to all others buildings can force AI to build them , and then , AI would remain hard to beat for all game long. That was exactly what i had on mind , are you going to do so to all others buildings?

zappara said:
Changed: All religious Temples give happiness only from State religion

Very glad to see you share my point of view in that case! It really prevent players to override the happines problem just collecting religions ... that's far tested

zappara said:
I think this might be good way. In all previous RoM versions I've included other mods and mod components so I might add some RoM modmods to base RoM as well because there's a lot of great quality modmods

Good news!!!!
RoM is the better mod because you managed to merge all the good mods out there , that's what made BIG this mod. And i think you should remain in that path

vincentz · Aug 5, 2009

@ Zappara

You certainly did a lot of reading. Its good to see the 2.8 to be list.
I understand that the concensus is adding the modmods in either loaded or unloaded form, but what about mods that uses DLL changes or Python changes?
And to be honest, if RoM goes for the 500 MB size, then I'm out. Just dosnt have the capacity (internet speed, computer speed, ram size etc etc) I completely understand the concept of development being inevitable and without it there wouldnt really be any RoM

, but as before mentioned this would propably leave some gamers out in the cold. This is why I'd rather have the modmod forum (where modders can keep their mods up to date) What happens when Zappara makes a 2.81? Is it then Zapparas job to update the modmods?

Another way to counter this problem is some ingame "advertising" refering to the modmod forum.
Maybe even in the pop up window that shows at the beginning of each game.

Maybe even make a Modmodmegapack where the MLF problems could be fixed as well.
This MMMP could consist of all the mods available for that version (2.8 for example). (When 2.71 came out it didnt take long time before almost all the mods where converted to 2.71)

If the decision is however to include all the mods, I promise I wont go flaming, trolling or whining

I could use all that time I currently use on modding for some family time/diving

Afforess · Aug 5, 2009

vincentz said:
And to be honest, if RoM goes for the 500 MB size, then I'm out. Just dosnt have the capacity (internet speed, computer speed, ram size etc etc) I completely understand the concept of development being inevitable and without it there wouldnt really be any RoM , but as before mentioned this would propably leave some gamers out in the cold.

This may not be a solution, but If Zappara switches to 7z compression, he could shave off 10-15% off the file size because it is the best compression. Anyways, on my computer, RoM unpacked takes up ~2gb. :crazyeye:

dasvidania · Aug 5, 2009

@Zappara

Thanks for your mod.
1. Is it possible to decrease, in the next version, the number of items for win the events? i think they are very high when you play at standard speed.

2. Pirates for all epochs, with different boats?

Good bye

fearthereaper · Aug 5, 2009

I would like to see more superweapons. If any of you have played EndWar, then i would like to see spaceweapons such as lasers or kinetic strikes. or any weapons that can decimate a city.

Skeeve_Sunshine · Aug 5, 2009

zappara said:
Things so far added/changed for v2.8
Note that some changes might not stay as they are now listed above as they need testing to find good values (civics + game defines especially). I've already tested these a bit and it does seem harder now - cities grow slower so slavery isn't so good, happiness is harder to increase as religious temples only increase happiness from state religion (AIs seem to aim for different religions more now) and trade route nerf does affect just about everything.

These look just very very good changes !

But i still want to promote the "weak defender" for all siege units - 80% str while defending. Due to their sieging nature ( except some special siege units).
or have i missed it in changelog?

Afforess · Aug 5, 2009

Zappara, another modder (Cybah) discovered that PythonCallbackDefines is what slows downs mods the most, so whenever possible, you should eliminate or avoid them.

zappara · Aug 5, 2009

AAranda said:
Are you plannig to remake galleys and triremes unable to travel open sea? I really think this thing is quite necessarary

No, I won't change them back. See the notes about the random event fix for those sea storms.

vincentz said:
@ Zappara

You certainly did a lot of reading. Its good to see the 2.8 to be list.
I understand that the concensus is adding the modmods in either loaded or unloaded form, but what about mods that uses DLL changes or Python changes?

I'll continue using just RevDCM as it has proven to be quite good way so I won't be adding any other DLL stuff. Python mods is another story, those I've added in past and can add few more if there's some that I need to add (for extra features) or some that enhance the RoM experience even further. I'll try to keep RoM as small as possible and keep certain things optional (like Mega Civ Pack) so that the download size doesn't increase too much - even now it takes couple hours to upload the mod from here.

fearthereaper said:
I would like to see more superweapons. If any of you have played EndWar, then i would like to see spaceweapons such as lasers or kinetic strikes. or any weapons that can decimate a city.

There might be some new "toys" in v2.8 - we shall see...

Skeeve_Sunshine said:
These look just very very good changes !

But i still want to promote the "weak defender" for all siege units - 80% str while defending. Due to their sieging nature ( except some special siege units).
or have i missed it in changelog?

I've only just starting making v2.8 and most of the Promotion changes are not yet made.

Afforess said:
Zappara, another modder (Cybah) discovered that PythonCallbackDefines is what slows downs mods the most, so whenever possible, you should eliminate or avoid them.

I've known about this for about 2 years now and I've tried to use them as little as possible - and there was efforts to optimize python code in recent patches in code sections where those calls are used.

Afforess · Aug 5, 2009

zappara said:
[Referancing The way ships travel on Ocean] No, I won't change them back. See the notes about the random event fix for those sea storms.

That's okay. It's just another opportunity for a modmod.

For those who want ships the way they were, check out my Seafaring minimod.

JosEPh_II · Aug 5, 2009

Zappara wrote:

happiness is harder to increase as religious temples only increase happiness from state religion (AIs seem to aim for different religions more now)

I have serious reservations about this. Hope it doesn't turn out the way Limited Religions did.

JosEPh

Bezhukov · Aug 5, 2009

Outstanding job on 2.8 changes - can't wait to give her a spin!

As for the modmods, which ones do the vets here recommend, and can you link me to good directions as to how to install them?

aender · Aug 5, 2009

just a few ideas to lesson building clutter.....

1 west point is nat wonder...naval academy should be same
2 several buildings that provide resources are nat won maybe steel mill, glass, the various rubber suppliers, and oil refineries should be same
3 why have ironworks and steel mills, both provide same resource
and 4 not that there is too many horse units but too many are available at once maybe redo them so that 2 types...1 for attacking cities and other for attacking seige machines(catapults)

konradcabral · Aug 5, 2009

aender said:
1 west point is nat wonder...naval academy should be same

Sagres...

aender · Aug 6, 2009

i have a GREAT idea....

leave the modmod discussion alone zap has been doing a great job with rom as is and the core version does not need to have all the modmods attached

with that said i currently am playing with a few modmods and because i'm sure there are thousands out there who dont know of them maybe instead of them being included maybe all that needs be done is changing the menu screen to include instructions on how to find them

this would keep the core version smaller and get more people not only playing them but hopefyully also giving feedback

Avka · Aug 6, 2009

Would it be possible to include some features similar to the ones in Fall from Heaven\Fall Further\Fall Further Plus mods.

Ie the promotion pictures stack so instead of 5 pictures of star promotion just the top one shows , the worker exp where they gain experience over time and increase productivity , and the fort commanders "Fort Commanders - Forts, and all fort replacements/upgrades, can now be 'claimed'. This creates a Fort Commander, a unit that gains in power over time, and is able to spread your borders first to the fort itself, then to the ring of tiles immediately surrounding it"

Theres an economy mod (not sure if Rom already has it incorporated) that livens the AI play significantly and a manage angry\unhealthiness feature that adds buttons in city screen that allows automation of those issues by city

Oh and could u add the PerfectWorld2 map script as well , if i understand correctly RoM uses older version now ?

Not that inclusion of those things is essential but would be really really nice and welcomed )

Version 2.8 discussion

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Mod Designer

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The White Wizard

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Chieftain

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Mod Designer

The White Wizard

TBS WarLord

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