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Version 4.2 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ4 - MongooseMod' started by LunarMongoose, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. templar4522

    templar4522 Chieftain

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    Ok new game, new question.
    I discovered Dualism, and got the free prophet, but Zoroastrism was not founded at all. Is there a limit on the religions you can found? I already have two.
     
  2. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Sorry I haven't gotten to your savefile yet! I'm just, freaking, swamped/overwhelmed here. It'll probably be a few more days. I don't think it means ALL games will crash btw, as D was able to finish half of his games even with them being in 4.1, which was way WORSE bug-wise, believe me lol... Still, I'm really annoyed. :(

    If it's the same underlying issue as in earlier versions, then the upcoming K-Mod rewrite WILL definitely take care of it, plus it will mean RLFix is fine afterall which would actually be GREAT news, heh. I'm a little concerned now about tile damage btw, as I first started using that as well around the same time all this started happening. Anywho...

    Yep! There is a limit of founding 2 per player to keep the number of religion buildings from becoming overwhelming, which is bad enough as it is in vanilla with up to 7 religions potentially, but MM has 12. ;) However there is no limit on Shrines owned via conquering them.

    For anyone/everyone who is new to the mod, please read the "Stuff to Know" sticky thread, or matching text file included in the mod's Documentation folder! I put it together for a good reason ;), as there are close to a dozen hidden-but-important rules changes like that in the mod. ... The newest one, having to do with ships entering lakes and using allied canals, is in the download but I don't think I updated the sticky yet, heh.
     
  3. templar4522

    templar4522 Chieftain

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    whoops, it seems I missed that part... And I read the stuff in the spoiler cause I remember reading about the "migration" stuff, but somehow completely missed the religion stuff.
    Apologies.
    And no worries for the savegame, it was more to help fix potential issues than anything else ;)
     
  4. dripdrip

    dripdrip Chieftain

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    I'm playing Mongoosemod for the first time. The new features are very interesting and there are a lot of stuffs to learn. I am reading many pedia contents when I encounter unique stuffs of this mod and spending much time(English is not my mother language). Could you please re-sort your pedia entries in alphabetical order? It seems that you have categorized entries but, in my opinion, alphabetical order is much more convenient for new users like me.
    And many thanks to you for this superb work!
     
  5. templar4522

    templar4522 Chieftain

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    +1 on this. It's quite challenging to find stuff on there.
     
  6. Rakete4

    Rakete4 Chieftain

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    Great to see version 4.2 is finally online. I will check it out soon.
     
  7. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    An oddity I've encountered. I've started 2 games as America and selected Ronald Regan. But in both game I start with Geo. Washington. Am I missing something?

    JosEPh :)
     
  8. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Sorry for being slow to reply right now, still swamped with non-Civ things heh.

    Always greatly appreciate when new people like the mod, so thanks for your interest! I actually HAVE been planning to add alphabetical back in as an option for quite some time now, but there was a HUGE amount of important work on the mod that needed to be done that really took all my attention for several years, and I pretty much burnt myself out just getting 4.2 out the door as it is, lol.

    I had been planning to hold off on alphabetical until I could make it part of a more extensive Pedia update at a later time, but that's probably still a long ways off, and admittedly what I have in mind won't take very long, so I'll try to include it the next time there's an update.

    I do apologize for the difficulty in finding things in the Pedia for you guys, and also for the lack of support for the other 4 non-English languages in the base game. The latter has different issues and is a thorny problem, but on the Pedia, please try and understand too that MongooseMod was originally completely, and still is partially, for personal use by me and my one RL friend. I'm super-happy to be able to make it available publically, and that you guys like it, and it's also been really helpful to get feedback and suggestions back from everyone here as well.

    But I personally find it MASSIVELY faster and easier to use the Pedia the way it is now, which is just the pure un-sorted order of the actual XML entries, which are themselves arranged (on purpose!) by both categories and chronologically. So that's why I haven't had alphabetical sorting in there for a long time, and have no plans to go back to it *just by itself*. It will need to be available as an option only, so that we DON'T have to use it lol. ;)

    Omgosh YAY-slash-whew that Rakete is still around!!!

    Erm... Yeah kinda. ;) This sure has been a relentlessly popular question over the years, haha.

    One of the unique features of the mod is the Leader Cycling system. Leader choice isn't used (unless you turn on both the Unrestricted Leaders AND Custom Color options when making a game, in which case Leader choice is used to pick your custom empire color). Every player gets the historically earliest leader for their civ, and it automatically updates them to their next leader every few Eras.

    Sorry to keep pressing this point, but to everyone: please read the "Stuff to Know" sticky in the subforum here, or the matching text file included in the mod's Documentation folder! This leader thing is one of the MAIN points covered near the top, in the "Read this if nothing else!" section lol. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  9. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    My Bad. :(

    But at least you responded. :D

    JosEPh
     
  10. dripdrip

    dripdrip Chieftain

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    Barley provides happiness instead of health? It's probably because of beer brewing, I think. Then East Asian civs must get happiness from Rice for the same reason. :lol:

    And a bug report....
    Silk Road Wonder does not seem to provide two additional trade routes. My inland cities are still displaying only one trade route each although I have open border agreement with 4 other civs and all of them have :traderoute: on the scoreboard. (Screenshot attached.) My current game is very fun anyway. Thank you.:thumbsup:
     

    Attached Files:

  11. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    I needed to differentiate Barley from the other grain resources if I was going to add it at all, since there were already 3 of them. So yes, the happiness is because of its role in making beer. :) Admittedly I'm more familiar with Western culture than Eastern, but I suspect Rice, while it may well have alcohol-related uses as well, is still more of a primary/staple foodstuff than Barley is.

    You always have to make judgement calls and generalizations when distilling things down for a video game. ;)

    Please also note, you still get a Health bonus from Barley on the Grocer building, which is intentional as a nod to its dual role.

    Omgosh, I FINALLY got someone to post real/actual screenshots of a real/actual game! THANKUPO!!! :) :) :)

    And... why yes, you're absolutely right! Lol sorry about that bug, it happened when I was moving some extra things out of DLL hardcoding and into the XML at the last minute, i.e. doing them "the right way". It makes no practical difference, but I wanted to clean things up in 4.2, and on that particular item I set everything up correctly which was 95% of the work, but forgot to add the one line of code in a different file that actually ACTIVATES the +2 Inland Trade Routes when people have them, sigh.

    Aight, whelp, I still wasn't REALLY ready to work on Civ4 again just yet, but that bug annoys me and is VERY easily fixed, soooo I'm probably going to go ahead and do several other quick/easy things on my list as well, which will result in a 4.2a update in a few days hopefully.

    (Plus I'm going to be unavailable for a bit once the huge GalCiv3 expansion comes out, so I guess I probably should get on with it, heh.)
     
  12. dripdrip

    dripdrip Chieftain

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    Oh you are right. It was just a joke. Not a serious thing. (My English is not very good indeed.:mischief:)

    Thank you so much and.... I wonder leaders can be made to change in a random order. Or the players designate the changing order? I have NO idea if it is easy or not but I guess it would be more fun.:)
     
  13. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Good news Templar4522! I FINALLY got around to working on that savefile you sent me (7 weeks ago lol... sorry it took so long!), and after about 2 hours of narrowing it down with my clunky trial-and-error method, I did indeed find and fix the problem! Which came as a great shock and surprise to me personally btw, since most of the crashes I've had to look into over the last couple years have been amorphous, confusing, non-sensical, low-level things with no clear, precise, obvious cause. (I'm pretty sure now that they were results of my failed RiverLinkFix PlotGroup system, and also my incorrect Widget order at one point, heh. But I'm not used to straightforward things in the code like this. ;))

    Anywho, your original Vikings game works fine now. You'll be able to continue it soon. :D The crash was whenever a Colony tried to form, which is when part of an existing empire breaks away and becomes a new empire that is a vassal of the original.

    I'm REALLY grateful for that savefile too, b/c it's a crash that a lot of people would probably run into sooner or later, and some may already have and just not posted about it. Basically, in my ongoing attempts to clean up the vanilla code a bit (it has a terrible habit of declaring and calculating things, then not actually using them til much lower down, often past return conditions and everything), back in version 4.1 I accidentally moved 2 vanilla lines down below a 3rd one to be closer to where they're used, but failed to notice that that 3rd line changes things, and they need to save its values BEFORE it runs. Sigh.

    Any-anywho, I still have several other things I want to do, but this and the Silk Road fix will be part of the 4.2a update, which I'm now actively working on. It should be out in a week at most, hopefully sooner, and will NOT break 4.2 saves. :)

    I actually wanted it the way it is from a game design standpoint, and I really like having them in historical / chronological order. User-chosen order would require the most additional UI work, AND I would have to try to write something to make AI players pick their leaders intelligently - which would still be an unfair advantage for humans over AIs no matter how good a job I did on it heh. And one of my core design tenets from the beginning has been to avoid adding any major new features, mechanics, or abilities that are obvious to humans but ignored by AIs, or that AIs could only be made to understand and use in a rudimentary way. That's why there are no Land or Air cargo transport units even though the XML supports them easily, for example.

    Random order is much easier and simpler, and would pretty much just require another checkbox option in the New Game settings. I think adding another Game Option might break 4.2 saves (though I'd have to check), and I don't really have unlimited time right now, but I can probably include this in version 4.3. Sorry for the wait, heh.
     
  14. dripdrip

    dripdrip Chieftain

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    I think the era and the year are too far apart considering the real history. At turn 280, year was around 2000AD however still cavalry and riflemen were fighting.(I play in Twilight Llama difficulty, prehistoric start and normal speed.) That does not affect gameplay and I tried not to care about it but it constantly got on my nerves.:cry: I would be very happy if it is somewhat adjusted.:help:
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  15. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Lol yeah that sounds a bit off... It's actually very tricky to adjust that stupid thing, and I've been fiddling with it off-and-on since the beginning. I did increase all Tech costs from late Medieval through Future in 4.2, so that probably made the dates a lot worse. I was thinking I probably had the Era speeds themselves, i.e. the Tech costs, balanced better now (Renaissance used to fly by WAY too fast I know from personal experience, and I also got comments that Industrial was a bit fast before), but that I probably overdid it in terms of the TOTAL cost of the Tech Tree.

    So I was actually planning to scale everything (except Prehistoric) down to 80-93% of its current Tech cost values in 4.3 while keeping the same 4.2 cost ratios from column to column, but I don't want to mess with that now b/c I don't want to mess up in-progress 4.2 games. This is just going to be a bugfix and improvements patch that's shooting for maximum in-place compatibility, heh. Almost done btw! Hoping to get it posted in 2-3 days, but we'll see.
     
  16. dripdrip

    dripdrip Chieftain

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    Will the era correspond with the year if I start a game with Ancient Era Start? (normal gamespeed)
     
  17. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Sorry about the delay! When that blizzard hit the northeast last Tuesday, even though it wasn't actually THAT bad here the power still went out twice, and the second time it killed my computer. Fortunately the only thing damaged was my power supply so once I got a new one put in everything was fine again, but I still had to redo ALL the power cables in the case, and spend $54 on Overnight Shipping (grr), and I'm only just now fully relaxing and settling back into things again...

    Anyway I'm down to the last 2 things, hoping to get it posted tonight or more likely tomorrow.

    Sadly no. It starts at the beginning of the date sequence (in MM's case, 100,000 BC) regardless of the starting Era. Kinda sucks I guess, but that's how the original game set it up.

    If you want to try adjusting the dates yourself, the system it uses is in "Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml", in the <GameTurnInfos> blocks. Each GameSpeed has a different set of values and I've admittedly put more effort into Eternal than any of the others b/c that's what we actually play on, but also b/c longer speeds = more flexibility with integer values = easier to adjust, heh.

    Mind you, they are only hard to do b/c I personally insist on all the speeds each starting and ending on the exact same date. If you're willing to ditch that not-really-all-that-important requirement, then yes you could fine-tune them a lot better. But the vanilla game isn't perfect on this either heh, so don't blame me too much! :p

    I will try to adjust the date sequences again myself after I'm COMPLETELY done tweaking Tech costs, but any work done on the them before then would basically just be wasted, since it changes every time you change progression speed anyway.
     
  18. dripdrip

    dripdrip Chieftain

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    I'm having HUGE FUN playing mongoosemod these days. Thank you A LOT, Lunar Mongoose!

    I don't know anything about XML things but I want to try when I have time.:)

    Here's some suggestions and bug reports.
    1. Please add a column for Commerce:commerce: in Domestic Advisor.-Surely that icon was changed in your mod and I prefer the new icon. The vanilla one is sometimes confusing me with the happiness icon:). Oh wait a second, what's the blank column between religion and population? I've just recognized that.:confused: Is it originally the Commerce column?

    2. Domestic adviser is too long in vertical direction. It hides city's current production pane. So the players cannot change city's production directly on Domestic Advisor screen and have to enter the city screen.

    3. I've already suggested random order of leader change. It was just for fun then. But I have found that some leader's favorite civic can be useless. For example, Washington's favorite is free speech but he will be replaced before he can research Liberalism. Shaka's Military School, Cyrus' Free Religion, Lincoln's Emancipation and so on.

    4. Sometimes leader change is not followed by the name change.
    The first screenshot : Brennus has changed to Boudica but her name is still Brennus.(other leaders' names have properly changed.)
    The second : The leaderhead is Napoleon's but his name is still Louis.
    It's just the name problem. Leaderheads and Traits are properly changing.

    5. How do the pirates work? They don't attack anybody, just move into other unit's tile(even into a city), while privateers can attack vessels, pillage improvements and bombard cities. They only attack when the war is declared.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  19. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Alright, 4.2a is finally done! Sorry for the repeated delays. I just need to update a couple of the documentation files and zip it up, which I will do when I get up since I'm too tired right now, heh.

    Always great to hear! Thanks for giving it a chance, and for all your feedback. :)

    It honestly couldn't be easier. An XML file is just a text file - open it in any text editor, change the numbers, and hit Save. :) (Just be sure you ONLY change the actual number values; the other stuff has to be the way it is.)

    The main problem you'll run into with this particular thing, is that the way Civ4 does date progression is a series of blocks like "A turns at B-years-per-turn", then "X turns at Y-years-per-turn", etc. You kinda need the TOTAL number of turns to stay the same, and ideally you also want the end date to stay the same as well. Like I said before though, if you're willing to be flexible on the end date you can tweak the sequence much more easily.

    The column after Religions is Corporations, which does stay empty til late-game but nevertheless does need to be there, heh.

    There is no Commerce column in the original vanilla Domestic Advisor, and I never felt like it was critical to add b/c you can see the Trade Route commerce, and also the final Gold/Research/Culture/Espionage values, so the base Commerce was pretty well-represented already I thought, and there wasn't any room left for more columns on smaller screen resolutions either which was a big deterrent.

    Fortunately once I got going working on the Domestic Advisor again, I wound up improving lots of things with the layout, heh. For example I was able to reclaim enough horizontal space for a new column at low res by scaling the table's side margins, so Commerce is now in 4.2a, and I'm really happy with the results; thanks for prompting me to work on this window!

    Gah. Yeah this was bad, heh. I never noticed the problem before b/c I run the game at 2560x1600 personally, and while I did add column-width scaling a while back, it had some room left for improvement - and I never looked at window position and size as a whole at all. Domestic Advisor is now setup much better at ALL resolutions in 4.2a. :)

    I was aware of this when I first put in the leader cycling system, and there's no easy answer to the problem. However, this IS one of the main reasons I also gave each leader a second Favorite Civic, so they'd have enough variety to get by. Additionally, they CAN use them if they get the Wonders that unlock specific Civic Categories, and they can ALSO use their Favorite Civics as the basis for "Adopt this Civic" request/demand diplomacy messages if other players are far enough ahead or behind them. So I'm okay with the system as it is, even if it's not perfect.

    I tried a few test games, and couldn't reproduce this bug at all. I'm not doubting that it's happening since you've got screenshots clearly showing it is lol, but I couldn't find anything wrong in the code either so I'm just going to have to let this one slide for now. Sorry I couldn't fix it right away, but I AM glad it's just visual and their stats are still changing correctly. :)

    There is no vanilla AI code for handling/moving/using LAND-based "attack-without-declaring-war" units, and the AI mods never wrote any that I'm aware of, so I didn't give the Pirate unit this stat. One of my primary design goals is to never add any major features or abilities that humans can use but AI players won't be able to take full advantage of (or in this case any advantage of at all).

    So the Pirate unit works just like all other land military units, except that it can be carried as a Special Cargo type in the Corsair and Privateer. (And if it DID have "land-privateer" ability, then I would've given it weaker combat stats to compensate, heh.)
     
  20. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Along with posting 4.2a, finally got around to updating my forum sig, and the Stuff to Know sticky - yay! I did add one entry to it as well, which I'll quote here:

    * There is an additional settings file for the mod itself: "MongooseMod/Options.ini". I've seen other mods add a tab to the actual in-game Options dialog for this purpose, but I haven't looked into how to do that yet, and this method was simple and easy, so for now it's staying the way it is, heh. The file can be edited just like "CivilizationIV.ini" in the User folder, so please be aware of it! It sets the initial default starting value whenever the game is launched for the Field-of-View slider on the main UI, and as of version 4.2a, also whether Alphabetical Sorting is on or not to start with in the Sevopedia.
     

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