Very early barbarian attacks need to be patched

[Sinapus]

[ONLY TIME I'LL EVER SAY THIS, SO LISTEN UP]


10 GOTO CIV4EventInfos.xml
15 MAKE A BACK UP
20 FIND "EVENTTRIGGER_THE_HUNS" (also: "THE_GOTHS", "THE_VANDALS", "THE_PHILISTINES", "THE_VEDIC_ARYANS" -- I think that's it.)
30 SET: iPercentGamesActive to "0" for all of the above events.
35 SAVE YOUR NEW CIV4EventInfos.xml INTO A MOD FOLDER THE USUAL WAY
40 ENJOY A BARBARIAN EVENT-FREE GAME USING YOUR NEW MOD
50 END

[/ONLY TIME I'LL EVER SAY THIS, SO LISTEN UP]

Alternatively, isn't there a flag in the events that says when it can trigger? Change that from "20" to some higher number and you can have it trigger at a time when it might be challenging instead of a deathknell for a growing civ.

 

[jkp1187]

Alternatively, isn't there a flag in the events that says when it can trigger? Change that from "20" to some higher number and you can have it trigger at a time when it might be challenging instead of a deathknell for a growing civ.

No, the events don't trigger in that fashion. The flags you're talking about here -- iPercentGamesActive and iWeight -- only govern if the event will be triggered. There are actually several different barbarian-spawning events, all of which are set to trigger to a different time based on whether or not certain key technologies have been discovered by any civ. The early event is called "The Vedic Aryans" and is eligible for triggering once any civ has discovered Archery + Polytheism.

The simplest fix is to set <iPercentGamesActive> and <iWeight> for Vedic Aryans to "0". Then you won't ever have the early barbarian archer event in a game, while still retaining the later barbarian events, which are triggered by later techs like Bronze Working, Iron Working, Mathematics, etc. A more complex fix will require you to edit the python file that triggers the events, and perhaps change the required technology for Vedic Aryans to one that occurs later than Archery + Polytheism.

Make sense?

 

[Sinapus]

Now it does. I had no access to the file in question so I didn't know there wasn't a turn-based trigger buried in there or not.

 

[Monty Python Ni]

I've only really had one experience with this, and thank goodness I had the Great Wall. About 8 horse archers appeared right outside my borders, and I hadn't been able to reach a source of copper yet, so I had no spearmen to fend them off if it were not for the GW.

Anyways, I think the AI (Saladin) cheated to preserve itself, because the horse archers never took any of their cities even though Saladin only had 2 archers in each.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I'm very glad that most people agree it's a problem. What we are not agreeing with is what exactly is the problem.

No-one is saying that barbarian events should be completely removed. Rather, it's the "Vedic Aryan" barbarian event in particular that is troubling, because of the possible (not necessarily, that's where the confusing part is) early timing of the attack. The argument is, most civs do not stand a chance against 4 archers in 3000BC or even 2500BC, and historically it really shouldn't hit until 2000BC anyway. I have absolutely no problems with the axeman, swordsman, horse archers and other later barbarian events.

 

[Willem]

The argument is, most civs do not stand a chance against 4 archers in 3000BC or even 2500BC,...

I wish it were only 4, I always got 6 on Marathon. At least I did before I disabled that event, thanks to the info provided.

 

[jkp1187]

Now it does. I had no access to the file in question so I didn't know there wasn't a turn-based trigger buried in there or not.

You could always set up such a timer via Python, it's just there's no flag for it in the XML trigger file. In fact, although the XML files permit you to do some things, just about any event that is interesting or creative happening calls back to Python for something.

 

[Angst]

O'rly?
This may be topic 52 about that term...

 

[PutCashIn]

~2000BC I got 2 horsies stacks in a row, thats 12 in 2 turns. within 4 turns of original horsies, i have 1 stack of spears emerge (except, in hind sight, are there barbarian spears? just shows how fast I quit)...this was befor the 'barbarian stacks go to capital' patch, so instead of 18 units burning er, 'my' capital, I had 18 units burning everything.

Yay, my one in a million Civ4 lucky dice roll got used on Barbarian Hordes, rather than a BFC of Gems, Gold and Floodplains.

 

[PsiCorps]

I have no idea how to create my own mods or how to tweak the system but isn't there a way to delay the Vedic barbarians by, for example, making a trigger of 50% of civs have to have Archery + Polytheism before the uprising occurs. Alternatively have a time delay of 20 turns (or more) after 2 civs have discovered both Archery + Polytheism. This might serve to balance out the unfairness people have been referring to.

 

[Iranon]

In my opinion, being unfair isn't necessarily a problem... it can still enhance gameplay (can I weather it somehow, if it targets someone else can I liberate a former capital from the barbarians etc).

Civ is unfair in a variety of ways, and with the current competence level of the AI it needs to be. At least with barbarians the game is honest about the randomness... as opposed to a last defender in a crucial siege seemingly always holding out in the face of a stated 1-in-a-million chance (damn you, Pratchett).

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Early barbs have ruined many nice starts for me. I like them for it.

 

[Willem]

In my opinion, being unfair isn't necessarily a problem...

It is if you have a horde of 6 Archers descending on an undefended capital. That's just a gamebreaker that adds nothing to my enjoyment of playing. It only serves to piss me off.

 

[Jaybe]

And WHO left their capital undefended, Willem?! And did YOU beeline for archery that game?

The barbarian incident is just another factor we have to contend against, and so it balances out the rush for bronze or for writing, whatever.

Just drop it. Very early barbarian attacks are just another tension-producing aspect of the game, which INCREASES its value. If all else fails (like your only city), then restart from the 4000 BC auto-save.

 

[Willem]

And WHO left their capital undefended, Willem?!

And what choice did I have, sit around and build Warrior after Warrior on the off chance I might get this event, or send off my only Warrior with a Settler to build a new city? I'd say the choice is pretty clear considering that event is the only thing that can hurt me in my capital at 3600 BC.

And did YOU beeline for archery that game?

As a matter of fact I did, which you'd realize if you had actually read my posts. I specifically mentioned that I was still 9 turns away from my first Archer. So I had only been playing the game long enough to build 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, and not quite 1 Archer. Tell me how that is a good event to have in the game?

Just drop it. Very early barbarian attacks are just another tension-producing aspect of the game, which INCREASES its value.

We're not refering to the regular barb attacks here, we're talking about a potentially gamebreaking event that shouldn't be in place. The normal barbs I can handle, at least with them I have enough time to prepare. You don't stand a chance with the random event if it happens so early, losing is just a forgone conclusion.

If all else fails (like your only city), then restart from the 4000 BC auto-save.

Why should I? Why should the game be so constructed that the player is screwed right from the very start? That's just poor game design IMO. Besides, it's faster just to start a brand new game.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I think its not possible on all games, even if you have random events on..since some amount of random events gets picked from the pool all for that specific game.

I love barb event, and don't understand why people make it so big deal. Otoh, i hate repeating random events on same game/tile.. there nothing as frustrating as having farm bandits or mine collapse happening repeatetly.. esp. on OCC . I dunno if it could happen with truffles or +gold events, but i have not had such a good luck streak yet.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Ok here's a point on the barb event, has anyone actually let them take your cap , or just said "Oh its undefended I might as well quit".....cos I've quit before in disgust....BUT

One time I didn't (I had a pretty hopeless start and wasn't too bothered)...6 vedic archers spawn on my caps border. They wander in next turn, then to my amazement, they walk straight past the cap, and wander off to lands unknown. This has happened every single time this event has occurred.

In my experience then, if the barb event happens obscenely early they will not attack the player They WILL if its past a certain time, but not if its very early, and if this event happens later on when you SHOULD have at least some troops to defend, its bad luck, but shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[JaDo]

I had this on the Warlord level, and the buggers took my capital, so I reloaded to see if there was anything I could do to avoid it, and on the reload, they minced straight through my 2 city civ, and took out Shaka, who was next door to me... Oh how I laughed, especially when I took a couple of cats and swords a few dozen turns later and took Shaka's cap, which was being defended my just two of those four original archers.... (The other two had wandered off or died!) One cap city location practically free of charge!

 

[Gibsie]

Sounds pretty broken to me. I've had this happen in a few of the last games I've played, they just turn up, and I've noticed them repeatedly ignore the AI to go for my civ. I mean literally walking next to AI units and then heading north to my cities that are 6 tiles away when AI cities are 2 tiles away. That's the worst part of it all really- knowing that I am always going to be the target, even if they spawn miles away.

 

[Antilogic]

Ok here's a point on the barb event, has anyone actually let them take your cap , or just said "Oh its undefended I might as well quit".....cos I've quit before in disgust....BUT

One time I didn't (I had a pretty hopeless start and wasn't too bothered)...6 vedic archers spawn on my caps border. They wander in next turn, then to my amazement, they walk straight past the cap, and wander off to lands unknown. This has happened every single time this event has occurred.

In my experience then, if the barb event happens obscenely early they will not attack the player They WILL if its past a certain time, but not if its very early, and if this event happens later on when you SHOULD have at least some troops to defend, its bad luck, but shouldn't be too much of a problem.

It depends on who gets the popup. The code has the AI go on "lemmings suicidal" mode against the unlucky player who gets the popup. If you just see the blue box in the upper right hand corner that says there has been a massive barbarian uprising (and the button says "we'll bear the brunt of this" or something like that), then they are coming for you. If all you see is the white text across the top that a barbarian uprising has occurred, then you are completely safe.

I actually exploited this in one of my previous games...the Philistines spawned 4 spearmen, but I didn't get the popup, just the notification. My axes followed them through my territory and straight into Mali lands, where their suicidal assault on the defending Skirmishers weakened them enough that my axes could sack Timbuktu (it was a glorious prize, with 5 seafood resources and floodplains). It was the easiest axe-rush I've ever done.