Veterans/Armistice Day

[civver_764]

And what of the Red Army, Civver, fighting foreign interventionists and counter-revolutionary forces? Would you dare to say that their military was not necessary?

While I do think an argument can be made for complete pacifism, I'll put that aside for this thread. I don't mean to say that the "military" is inherently bad or that "soldiers" inherently do bad things, obviously some good has resulted from them throughout the course of history, no one is denying that. What I object to is the supposed respect they deserve just for being hired mercenaries for states which almost never have the interests of humanity in mind.

And yes, obviously there are some revolutionary armies that receive respect from me.

I have to wonder how you expect to spread your anarchist revolution without a military of even rudimentary sorts.

You know, there's few enough of us as it is for you to be making cheap shots like this. One of the biggest problem with leftism is this kind of diversionary bickering.

As I recall, Civver doesn't want one ounce of blood in any revolution. Even the most evil of souls has the right to live.

Of course, I will let him speak for himself.

Ideally but the aggressive nature of state repression often makes this impossible.

 

[Flying Pig]

1) The Nazis did all their stuff through the use of the military.
2) How many people would still be alive if it weren't for the atomic bomb droppings, the Armenian genocide, the Jewish holocaust, the various invasions carried out by the US/USSR during the cold war, ETC. All made possible by the presence of an incredibly powerful military. Are those "your people" too?
3) Just because you have the same job as them doesn't mean you're the same person. You're a hired gun for the world superpower(that probably has the world record for wars and military action in the past half century), that's it. Just because people with the same profession as you did some good deeds in the past(and again, it's noteworthy that you don't want to be associated with the bad things they did, if you're going generalize so much it's all or nothing) doesn't mean anything.

OK, whatever you think of what the military are asked to do, bear in mind that those wearing green don't decide on where they're sent or the morality of their conflicts. What you respect is people who have risked and lost their lives because they thought they were defending their homes and countrymen - whatever you think about the conflicts in which they fought, you have to respect the selflessness that leads someone to do that.

 

[civver_764]

I'm not trying to demonize soldiers, and I have only utter sympathy for those who were drafted. But respect? The members of Al-Qaeda think they're doing the right thing too in fighting against western imperialism. The selflessness of the hijackers on 9/11 is not really something to be admired though.

 

[Flying Pig]

I'm not trying to demonize soldiers, and I have only utter sympathy for those who were drafted. But respect? The members of Al-Qaeda think they're doing the right thing too in fighting against western imperialism. The selflessness of the hijackers on 9/11 is not really something to be admired though.

With regard to suicide bombers I'd say their willingness to kill civilians as a means to an end rather cancels out any credit, particularly since you can't really call it courage if they're convinced that they're going straight on to paradise anyway. However, even in Afghanistan before IEDs and civilian casualties flooded the place we could have said we respected the courage of our enemies, even if we didn't approve of their motivations. Now that they're prefectly OK with blowing up children to get to us that's somewhat evaporated.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I'm not trying to demonize soldiers, and I have only utter sympathy for those who were drafted. But respect? The members of Al-Qaeda think they're doing the right thing too in fighting against western imperialism. The selflessness of the hijackers on 9/11 is not really something to be admired though.

I would say that their zeal is something very much to be admired. Their cause, not so much. But there is a very strong personal courage present in someone who willingly enters into a one-way trip to further something that he believes in. That is something also present in a Tommy who went "over the top" at Passchendaele, or żołnierzy who knew they would never go home from Wizna.