Victory Screen Mods

[EmperorFool]

Thanks Dresden. That is an annoying aspect of the localText object and Python together. That does give me an idea for amending BugUtil.getText() -- I can easily force the second argument to be a tuple if it isn't.

I thought about this today, and I think I have a better location for the votes needed:

Total (451 votes needed to win):        472     102

You could even color the winner's total green if it is over the total needed. I like this better because a) it doesn't require another line to display and b) it puts it right next to the number you'll want to compare it with.

And here's another (great) idea: make the margin error correct. If one or both candidates have a pleased attitude from a given AI, we cannot know for sure which candidate (if any) the AI will vote for. This is the exact meaning of the margin of error.

Now, Ruff being the uber statistics wiz that he is, should be able to calculate the actual margin of error given this uncertainty! If no votes lie in this category, we know for sure the outcome, so the margin of error should be 0%. But if any AI is in this camp (pleased towards either or both candidate), the margin of error is their # of votes divided by the total votes, correct?*

* Probably not, I slept through statistics, but it's gotta be close. Maybe it's their # of votes divided by the total for that candidate, meaning each candidate has a different margin of error? Naw, that seems wrong. There should be a single margin of error. Ah, take the total votes that can go either way and divide by the total votes. Yeah, that's it.

A    30            Fr 30    Pl  -
B    40            Pl 40    Ca  -    *
C    20            Fu       Pl 20    *
D    10            Ca  -    Ca  -
E    10            Pl       Pl 10    *
Total                 70       30

Total: 100 (since we ignore abstentions)
Unsure: 70 (the * lines)
Error: 70%

This way the margin of error becomes something useful rather than a random thing we added for fun.

The question I haven't considered is if it matters which way the uncertainty lies. Does this affect the margin of error? What I mean is if there are 10 uncertain votes for candidate A and 10 uncertain votes for candidate B, is the margin of error the same as if there were only 20 uncertain votes for A?

In the first case, the error can only be (+10, -10, or 0) votes (10% with 100 total votes extreme, 20% range) whereas in the second case it can be (+20 or 0) (20% extreme and range). So is margin of error a +/- max or a range thing?

 

[Dresden]

Thanks Dresden. That is an annoying aspect of the localText object and Python together. That does give me an idea for amending BugUtil.getText() -- I can easily force the second argument to be a tuple if it isn't.

That sounds like a neat addition since that error is pretty common; I know I've done it more than once at least.

I thought about this today, and I think I have a better location for the votes needed:

Total (451 votes needed to win):        472     102

You could even color the winner's total green if it is over the total needed. I like this better because a) it doesn't require another line to display and b) it puts it right next to the number you'll want to compare it with.

I heartily endorse this idea. And it's not just because I suggested something similar before, either. Speaking of which, I still think it would be useful to have the vote total be a different color (like red) if you alone have more than the required number of votes since the game won't let you hold the election in that case. And maybe color yellow if you're over the win threshold but only because of counting some unsure votes. (Yeah, I like color coding...)

 

[EmperorFool]

Speaking of which, I still think it would be useful to have the vote total be a different color (like red) if you alone have more than the required number of votes since the game won't let you hold the election in that case. And maybe color yellow if you're over the win threshold but only because of counting some unsure votes. (Yeah, I like color coding...)

doubleplusgood

 

[ruff_hi]

The margin of error you see in typical polls is not really a margin of error. The poll is an 'estimate' of the true value. The margin of error is saying that the true value is within 4% (if that is the quoted margin of error) of the poll value x% of the time (I'm not sure, but I would expect that the x% is 90% or 95%). Thus if one candidate is at 45% and the other is at 47%, then they are basically equal ... 95% of the time, the true value for Candidate 1 = 41% to 49% and Candidate 2 = 44% to 51% ... a very large overlap and hence the commentators term ... "statistical dead heat".

I like the location of the required votes (with the total).

I like some of the color ideas (green for winner, red for too many - only an issue for victory, not an issue for secgen) but not the yellow (counting unsure votes) because that implies that some votes are a-lock. Sure, they are, but that is only because we know the calculations.

Edit: why is it that all american coverage of the olympics has the medal tally sorted by total medals while the official site (and the rest of the world) sorts by gold first, silver second and then bronze? And it is not only these games - it seems to have been the case in 2004 too. Using the official sort method, America is currently 3rd with 2 gold while China is first with 5.

 

[ruff_hi]

SVN updated:

• fixed issue when first building AP / UN ... previously, the two candidates where the civs with the most votes, not the builder is shown as the 'resident' / 'GenSec' and so, listed first
• note that the votes are wrong for AP at first election (not doubled) - that is a game issue
• color coded total (green if BUG is projecting you as the winner, red if you have too many votes (victory only), otherwise - normal
• put the 'votes required' in the total line
• modified code so that two civs from the same team cannot be the two candidates (not tested)

 

[Aristos]

good placing ruff!

I have another one for you: (yes, I'm a classic BUG user: lazy ):

The vote of the player may be decisive, so why not make the player's life easier and show the possible effect of his/her vote in the members screen?

Maybe something like your clickable screen change will do the job. So the player can see, without doing the arithmetic, what effect his or her vote has for every candidate. Right now, the player's vote does not show on the table, and the player has to do the math.

I know, lazy... . But that's the spirit of BUG, isn't it?

 

[EmperorFool]

Don't you have to be a voting or full member of the Apostolic Palace to be eligible to win the Leader or Victory vote?

Someone on another continent (I don't know who and haven't met them) built the AP, but myself and another AI on my continent (same situation) are listed as the two candidates, but both of us are non-members.

I can see the logic to display the two most likely candidates given what is known, even if that means they have to acquire the AP religion. However, perhaps this should be indicated somewhere on the screen. Perhaps put "Ineligible" on the total line, before the candidate's votes.

Also, I'm not sure if this would show up well on all backgrounds (default and BlueMarble), but how about using the player's color for the leader names for quick identification?

 

[Dresden]

I'm positive you need to be an AP member to be eligible for the AP votes. You might need to be a full member as well; I'm not entirely sure. If you aren't a member, that means you don't have the AP religion anywhere, and so your vote total should be zero. Are you two listed as the two top candidates but both with zero votes?

For what it's worth, in my NC XI game I intentionally founded the AP in a minor religion which nobody runs as a state religion and only I even have right now. The only votes that have come up are pope votes and I'm the only candidate.

I *think* the proper candidacy requirements are something like this but I've had a helluva time tracking them down in the SDK so no guarantees.

UN Victory Vote:
- Secretary General
- Highest # of votes who isn't Secretary General

UN SecGen:
- Current UN Owner
- Highest # of votes who isn't Current UN Owner


AP Victory Vote:
- Pope
- Highest # of votes of full member who isn't Pope

AP Pope:
- Current AP Owner
- Highest # of votes of full member who isn't AP Owner


As for the other suggestion, get out of my head. I had the same idea about leader name coloring yesterday in regards to the Foreign Advisor (mostly to tell all the different Sury's apart in MadScientist's RPC.) I didn't bother trying it because I didn't think you could guarantee good contrast with even the default tan/blue backgrounds, let alone ones from different themes.

 

[ruff_hi]

I'm being lazy - gathering a list of AIs that I know, sorting them by status (pope, member, non member) and then vote count and taking the top two as the candidates. How about I include them in the list if they are unknown and just don't show their name or votes ... just put 'unknown civ'. That should take care of that.

EF - do you have a save from that game for testing?

 

[EmperorFool]

@Dresden - Your analysis gels with my limited experience.

I'm being lazy - gathering a list of AIs that I know, sorting them by status (pope, member, non member) and then vote count and taking the top two as the candidates.

I think that is a fine way to do it. I would just like to have it be ultra clear when they are ineligible. Maybe color their total votes, but I would start by putting "Ineligible" next to their vote total.

How about I include them in the list if they are unknown and just don't show their name or votes ... just put 'unknown civ'. That should take care of that.

Yes, you could just add them at the end of the list since nothing is known about them, or add a single "X unknown civs" line.

I've attached my save.

 

[ruff_hi]

I went thru the code for unknown candidates. Here are some sample screenies from EF's game ...

Both Candidates Unknown

One Candidate Unknown (oh - and I fixed the issue with the 2nd unknown heading - just didn't update the screenie)

Also, the vanilla BtS game contains a spoiler ...

I'm going to take out the 'not enough info' comment under the poll and just not publish the results of the poll until both candidates are known.

I'll be SVN'ing the code shortly. Edit: done (1187)

 

[mystyfly]

^^ First screenie: It says an unknown civ is a full member. You can't know whether it's a full member, can you?

 

[ruff_hi]

^^ First screenie: It says an unknown civ is a full member. You can't know whether it's a full member, can you?

no - probably not - but its not much information? I'll remove it anyway - going to change member status to 'blank'.

 

[EmperorFool]

going to change member status to 'blank'.

How about "Unknown"?

And in general, is there any wiggle room to expand the width of the vote count columns so that the leader names aren't truncated -- at least not the short names.

 

[Caesium]

As you see, the information text ends with ..., would it be possible, to display the full text?

 

[ruff_hi]

the above screen is actually a table with 6 columns - each column has a set width. I've tried to make each column as wide as it needs to be but not wider. As you can see from the very right - there are some pixals left that I can use ... I'll put them in the first column and see how we go. The other option is to shorten the German translation.

 

[Caesium]

What I meant was the shortened german translation

 

[Cammagno]

the above screen is actually a table with 6 columns - each column has a set width. I've tried to make each column as wide as it needs to be but not wider. As you can see from the very right - there are some pixals left that I can use ... I'll put them in the first column and see how we go. The other option is to shorten the German translation.

maybe there is a third option, that is to allow for some text in the second column (for those two lines), so that the default for other languages is blank but the german text can be splitted?

 

[EmperorFool]

maybe there is a third option, that is to allow for some text in the second column (for those two lines), so that the default for other languages is blank but the german text can be splitted?

That's really difficult to get it to line up, especially with different font sizes (BlueMarble). Another option is to make the first column a label and the second column hold the values, just like the rows above.

And now for something completely different . . .

Two U.N. Secretary Generals​

Since when was the UN SG a co-chair position?

BTW, Cyrus won the vote a few turns earlier.

 

[ruff_hi]

teams? And that designation is done by the game, not by me. :hmn: