Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[Vokarya]

Makes sense.
Than Health per Citizen and Happiness per Citizen are better used on some Wonders.

If you're going to do that, you may as well go all the way and use No Unhappiness or No Unhealth from Population, like Globe Theatre and National Park. Those are fine in limited doses.

 

[Vokarya]

Have you ever seen AI build Biofuel Refinery? I think we have a problem with National Wonders limit. I've raised the subject before but since I'm currently running a lot of tests lately, I must say that AI isn't almost building any National Wonder after Industrial, probably because of the lack of slots. I think we should increase the slots under some circumstances; perhaps we could grant more slots after some industrial/modern era tech. Something like 2 more slots per city.

Why don't we just turn on bNoLimit for all the resource-producing National Wonders? It would mean that they wouldn't count against the NW limit and could be built in a city that had already reached its NW limit. It would not mean that you could build extras the way you can with Palace; that comes about because of the additional iExtraPlayerInstances tag.

 

[<Nexus>]

If you're going to do that, you may as well go all the way and use No Unhappiness or No Unhealth from Population, like Globe Theatre and National Park. Those are fine in limited doses.

Sorry, what I meant was that those tags seem so powerful that they could be used for WWs rather than regular buildings.
Sure, you may get almost the same effect as with No unhealth or unhappines, but it depends on what you want. Like having a city with 30 and 10 still has a slight chance to become unhappy with some extreme circumstances - unlikely, but at least possible. With No unhappiness it's not possible at all.

So I said: I see opportunity. Like changing or adding wonders with those affects

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Why don't we just turn on bNoLimit for all the resource-producing National Wonders? It would mean that they wouldn't count against the NW limit and could be built in a city that had already reached its NW limit. It would not mean that you could build extras the way you can with Palace; that comes about because of the additional iExtraPlayerInstances tag.

Sounds like a good plan! I don't remember now how many NW are producing a resource but since I've noticed that AI often build 3 breweries, this might help. I'll do some testing.

 

[Vokarya]

Sounds like a good plan! I don't remember now how many NW are producing a resource but since I've noticed that AI often build 3 breweries, this might help. I'll do some testing.

I counted 14. That would save a lot of NW slots.

Also: could we look at upgrading Potter/Oil Refinery/Steel Mill to NW status? It would cut down on the numbers of those resources floating around. I don't think there would be any drawbacks to limiting them at this point, but I could be wrong.

 

[GreedyManul]

I counted 14. That would save a lot of NW slots.

Also: could we look at upgrading Potter/Oil Refinery/Steel Mill to NW status? It would cut down on the numbers of those resources floating around. I don't think there would be any drawbacks to limiting them at this point, but I could be wrong.

Ultimate Soldiers does consume Steel as a resource. But otherwise, I don't mind.

 

[Arakhor]

Also: could we look at upgrading Potter/Oil Refinery/Steel Mill to NW status? It would cut down on the numbers of those resources floating around. I don't think there would be any drawbacks to limiting them at this point, but I could be wrong.

If you do that, they should probably have appropriate non-generic names, such as Wedgwood Pottery.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I counted 14. That would save a lot of NW slots.

Also: could we look at upgrading Potter/Oil Refinery/Steel Mill to NW status? It would cut down on the numbers of those resources floating around. I don't think there would be any drawbacks to limiting them at this point, but I could be wrong.

I don't see any drawback, we can do it. Shall I add it to my next build or do you prefer to do it yourself?

 

[Vokarya]

If you do that, they should probably have appropriate non-generic names, such as Wedgwood Pottery.

NW's are still generic. WW get unique names.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I counted 14. That would save a lot of NW slots.

Also: could we look at upgrading Potter/Oil Refinery/Steel Mill to NW status? It would cut down on the numbers of those resources floating around. I don't think there would be any drawbacks to limiting them at this point, but I could be wrong.

I'm testing these changes before uploading them. Only things I've noticed out of the ordinary is that making Steel Mill a NW restricts where you can build Eiffel Tower because it requires steel mill. Also for consistency I've made potter, oil refinery and steel mill each available 3 times for construction, same as for other NW, and each is producing 3 resources. What do you think?

 

[Vokarya]

I'm testing these changes before uploading them. Only things I've noticed out of the ordinary is that making Steel Mill a NW restricts where you can build Eiffel Tower because it requires steel mill. Also for consistency I've made potter, oil refinery and steel mill each available 3 times for construction, same as for other NW, and each is producing 3 resources. What do you think?

That's fine with the 3x3. I would have done the same.

Eiffel Tower is supposed to be 1 Steel Mill anywhere in your civilization. It is <PrereqBuildingClasses>, not <BuildingClassNeededs>, which is what is used for a building that must be present in the building city. <PrereqBuildingClasses> is mostly used for the National Wonders that require X ordinary buildings before construction, but it is also used for the Guildhalls, Warhead Factory, and Power Receiver. If you really can't build Eiffel Tower in a city without a Steel Mill but you have a Steel Mill elsewhere, then something is wrong.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

That's fine with the 3x3. I would have done the same.

Eiffel Tower is supposed to be 1 Steel Mill anywhere in your civilization. It is <PrereqBuildingClasses>, not <BuildingClassNeededs>, which is what is used for a building that must be present in the building city. <PrereqBuildingClasses> is mostly used for the National Wonders that require X ordinary buildings before construction, but it is also used for the Guildhalls, Warhead Factory, and Power Receiver. If you really can't build Eiffel Tower in a city without a Steel Mill but you have a Steel Mill elsewhere, then something is wrong.

I haven't tried, I've simply misread the tag.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Always on NW topic, I've noticed that AI has some problem with NWs which require X other buildings, at least on large maps (5 buildings): I wonder if it's better to reduce that value to 3-4, although I haven't tried and see if it improves NWs construction.

 

[Vokarya]

Always on NW topic, I've noticed that AI has some problem with NWs which require X other buildings, at least on large maps (5 buildings): I wonder if it's better to reduce that value to 3-4, although I haven't tried and see if it improves NWs construction.

You'll have to adjust the scaling factor in CIV4WorldInfo.xml. The base value is already at 3 for most NW (I lowered it in rev982) and I don't think it would be good to go all the way down to 2.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

You'll have to adjust the scaling factor in CIV4WorldInfo.xml. The base value is already at 3 for most NW (I lowered it in rev982) and I don't think it would be good to go all the way down to 2.

Yes, I've noticed. Well, before trying that I'm trying to increase AI willingness to build NW in the dll and see how it works. It might depend on that. After all 5 buildings on a large map seems fair, especially if you don't use revolutions.

 

[Vokarya]

I was looking at Magistrate and Spy slots and I thought of something interesting. (I haven't forgotten about this yet, but I have been working on other things.)

What if we swapped the Magistrate and Spy slots between the Security Bureau/Security Center and the Surveillance Network? So Security Bureau would have 2 Magistrate slots, Security Center would have 3, and Surveillance Network would have 2 Spy slots.

I'm trying to differentiate a bit more between Magistrates and Spies, preferably without adding additional buildings. I think this allocation feels more natural. Magistrates work out of large, overt buildings while Spies are more covert.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I was looking at Magistrate and Spy slots and I thought of something interesting. (I haven't forgotten about this yet, but I have been working on other things.)

What if we swapped the Magistrate and Spy slots between the Security Bureau/Security Center and the Surveillance Network? So Security Bureau would have 2 Magistrate slots, Security Center would have 3, and Surveillance Network would have 2 Spy slots.

I'm trying to differentiate a bit more between Magistrates and Spies, preferably without adding additional buildings. I think this allocation feels more natural. Magistrates work out of large, overt buildings while Spies are more covert.

Sounds good to me.

 

[topka]

I don''t know if this is the place, but I think I found a problem.

As you can see in the image, if I build a Food Processing Plant I would actually be losing a lot of bonuses, because it replaces several food buildings. I think that shouldn't be the case, because the point of more advanced buildings is to progress, right?

Here is my save http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=dce2db8580 (click the file name).

 

[nionios]

I don''t know if this is the place, but I think I found a problem.

As you can see in the image, if I build a Food Processing Plant I would actually be losing a lot of bonuses, because it replaces several food buildings. I think that shouldn't be the case, because the point of more advanced buildings is to progress, right?

Here is my save http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=dce2db8580 (click the file name).

I think the popup message is wrong.If you make the calculation on your own, you'll find that FPP adds even more food although it replaces some buildings.It's something that had been discussed again in the past.

 

[Vokarya]

I think the popup message is wrong.If you make the calculation on your own, you'll find that FPP adds even more food although it replaces some buildings.It's something that had been discussed again in the past.

This is correct. The "Actual Effects" message is incorrect. I loaded up the save game posted, went into WorldBuilder, and added a Food Processing Plant in Pak Kret (the city in the image). It went from 118 food/turn to 127 food/turn after exiting WB.

You do lose a little commerce from the Bakery (max +3) when you upgrade to FPP, but you are supposed to make up for it in food. +9 food will support 3 additional specialists.