Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[<Nexus>]

Nah, it's +75%. Read into it one more time; vokarya's idea is to make a stock exchange to make the transition from bank to e-bank smoother, and to make the english UB a replacement for that stock exchange, which won't be replaced by the e-bank.

Ah... stupid me That makes more sense.
The question is: Do we really want the British to have a bonus lasting that long, 3 eras?

 

[Nyayr]

You could sit in between bank 30% and 75% maybe like 50-55%

 

[Vokarya]

While we're talking about unhappiness in the early game (over in another thread), I think we should do a little bit about the vast amounts of happiness in the late game.

One thing I noticed is that there are multiple buildings that benefit from Hit Singles/Hit Movies/Hit Musicals.

• Broadcast Tower/Communications Tower/Network Node generate +1/+2/+3 happiness from each of these resources.
• Movie Theatre gets +1 happiness from Hit Movies only; Holotheatre gets +1 happiness from Hit Movies and Hit Singles.
  
• Shopping District and Hypermarket generate +1 happiness from each of these resources.
• Amusement Park gets +1 happiness from Hit Singles, and so does Woodstock.
• All told, from non-Wonder buildings, a city with Hit Singles can generate +6 happiness (+1 innate, +3 Network Node, +1 Hypermarket, +1 Holotheatre, with an additional +2 possible from Amusement Park/Woodstock), while Hit Movies is good for +6 (+1 innate, +3 Network Node, +1 Hypermarket, +1 Holotheatre) and Hit Musicals is good for +5 (+1 innate, +3 Network Node, +1 Hypermarket).

I think we should consolidate these bonuses a little. I'm uncertain about Shopping District; without the happiness bonus, its only benefits over the Bazaar/Market combo it replaces are +15% gold and 1 Merchant slot. I feel it needs something else, so I'm probably going to stick with leaving the happiness bonuses on Shopping District/Hypermarket for now. But here's what I do want to do.

• Broadcast Tower/Communications Tower/Network Node generate happiness for Hit Singles only.
• Movie Theatre gets +1 happiness from Hit Musicals in addition to Hit Movies; Holotheatre gets +2 happiness from Hit Movies/Hit Musicals.
• Amusement Park gets a flat +2 happiness. Woodstock doesn't get a happiness bonus; it keeps its production bonus with Hit Singles.
  
• Now Hit Singles will generate +5 happiness (+1 innate, +3 Network Node, +1 Hypermarket), Hit Movies will generate +4 (+1 innate, +2 Holotheatre, +1 Hypermarket), and Hit Musicals will be +4 (same as Hit Movies).

I'd still like to cut off that +1 happiness from Shopping District/Hypermarket, but a building that's worth less than a second Market (+15% gold vs. +20% for the original Market, plus an equal 1 Merchant slot) isn't very appealing. Are there any ideas about what we could do with Shopping District?

 

[<Nexus>]

I'd still like to cut off that +1 happiness from Shopping District/Hypermarket, but a building that's worth less than a second Market (+15% gold vs. +20% for the original Market, plus an equal 1 Merchant slot) isn't very appealing. Are there any ideas about what we could do with Shopping District?

Make it sell books, CDs and DVDs. Give it +1 with Hit Singles/Hit Movies/Hit Musicals. How's that?

 

[Rezca]

Make it sell books, CDs and DVDs. Give it +1 with Hit Singles/Hit Movies/Hit Musicals. How's that?

Sounds better than it providing happiness with those resources I think.

 

[Vokarya]

Make it sell books, CDs and DVDs. Give it +1 with Hit Singles/Hit Movies/Hit Musicals. How's that?

The XML doesn't allow that. +percentage gold with resources, yes. But not flat +gold.

I can do flat +commerce.

 

[GreedyManul]

There's also the issue with +1 happy per x% culture; there are too many buildings that can give happiness with culture spending, and it can tip the scales a lot. I mean sure, you have to sacrifice research for that, but there's a point where you raise your eyebrow at the sight of such. In comparison, you only have schools and zoos that give happiness with research (25% the first and 50% the second, which adds up to 6 happiness), and the think tank, which gives happiness per 10% espionage (the only one of its kind).

 

[aggri1]

I'd still like to cut off that +1 happiness from Shopping District/Hypermarket, but a building that's worth less than a second Market (+15% gold vs. +20% for the original Market, plus an equal 1 Merchant slot) isn't very appealing. Are there any ideas about what we could do with Shopping District?

If there's no point to a building, get rid of it. There's already so much stuff in AND, including a number of buildings with really marginal benefits, that I, for one, will not miss the 'shopping district' at all were it to be eliminated.

So there.

;-)

 

[Vokarya]

If there's no point to a building, get rid of it. There's already so much stuff in AND, including a number of buildings with really marginal benefits, that I, for one, will not miss the 'shopping district' at all were it to be eliminated.

So there.

;-)

I don't want to get rid of Shopping District. I think it has a valuable place as both a brick in the pyramid of shopping buildings and a Modern Era building in general. The Renaissance, Modern, and Transhuman Eras are rather under-represented in buildings compared to the Classical, Medieval, and Industrial Eras.

 

[Vokarya]

There's also the issue with +1 happy per x% culture; there are too many buildings that can give happiness with culture spending, and it can tip the scales a lot. I mean sure, you have to sacrifice research for that, but there's a point where you raise your eyebrow at the sight of such. In comparison, you only have schools and zoos that give happiness with research (25% the first and 50% the second, which adds up to 6 happiness), and the think tank, which gives happiness per 10% espionage (the only one of its kind).

You have a point there.

I think we could safely cut those bonuses off of Bath House/Hammam and Hotel/Vacation Resort to start.

I think we could also increase Opera House from +1 happy/20% culture to +1/10%, but then completely remove the culture happiness from Movie Theatre, Red Curtains Theatre, and Holotheatre. By the time Movie Theatre comes around, Opera House has replaced Theatre so it wouldn't be a drawback if Movie Theatre didn't have a cultural happy bonus.

That leaves you with, over cultural spending in BTS, Brothel (+1/25%), Opera House (additional +1/20%), and Convention Center (+1/20%), plus some National Wonders (Amusement Park, National Sports League, Orbital Hotel) that only affect one city. I don't know how high most players take the cultural slider; I rarely touch it myself. At 50% culture, this would add up to +6 happiness.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm also going to remove the gold bonus from Movie Theatre/Holotheatre. It was there because I removed the free Celebrity specialist and added its bonuses directly to the building, but I think we're better off without the gold in the interest of keeping incomes under control in the Industrial Era and later. The Movie Theatre still has a purpose in providing more culture and more happiness over the Theatre it's replacing.

 

[GreedyManul]

You have a point there.

I think we could safely cut those bonuses off of Bath House/Hammam and Hotel/Vacation Resort to start.

I think we could also increase Opera House from +1 happy/20% culture to +1/10%, but then completely remove the culture happiness from Movie Theatre, Red Curtains Theatre, and Holotheatre. By the time Movie Theatre comes around, Opera House has replaced Theatre so it wouldn't be a drawback if Movie Theatre didn't have a cultural happy bonus.

That leaves you with, over cultural spending in BTS, Brothel (+1/25%), Opera House (additional +1/20%), and Convention Center (+1/20%), plus some National Wonders (Amusement Park, National Sports League, Orbital Hotel) that only affect one city. I don't know how high most players take the cultural slider; I rarely touch it myself. At 50% culture, this would add up to +6 happiness.

Personally, I went ahead and cut some more, while diversifying the ways you can get happiness from. In my copy of RAND 2, I went ahead and chopped pretty much any cultural spending happiness bonus that wasn't theatre/opera house, the arena line, and the broadcast tower line, and also toned down the benefits of the national wonders who had it. I also streamlined the happiness brackets; either they are multiples of 2, or multiples of 5.

Anyway, I'll present my changes.

Gold:

• Gambling Hall (1 per 50%)
• Casino (1 per 25% - upgrades Gambling Hall)
• Total: 4 happiness

Research:

• School (1 per 25%)
• Zoo (1 per 50%)
• Total: 6 happiness (same as before)

Culture:

• Default (1 per 10%)
• Theatre (1 per 20%)
• Opera House (1 per 10% - upgrades Theatre)
• Arena Line (1 per 20% - Byzantines enjoy 1 per 10% over other civs)
• Broadcast Tower Line (1 per 20%)
• Royal Tournament (1 per 20% - national wonder, obsoletes)
• Amusement Park, Orbital Hotel, and National Sports League (1 per 10% - national wonder)
• Total: 30 happiness (35 for byzantines), 60 with national wonders (65 for byzantines)

Espionage:

• Brothel (1 per 20%)
  
• Think Tank (1 per 10% - requires Technocracy)
• Total: 15 happiness (5 without Technocracy)

Culture still is the powerhouse of the 4 commerces (7 Happiness at 20%, +5 over default, but not ridiculous anymore), but now gold can also limp along like research, and Espionage is now more than just a gimmick (much, much more - at knowledge management, 20% Espionage will give 3 Happiness if you use Technocracy). And after all, the Brothel is an espionage-centric building; giving it bonus happiness for cultural spending doesn't make much sense.

 

[<Nexus>]

Brothel is an espionage-centric building; giving it bonus happiness for cultural spending doesn't make much sense.

I disagree in this one. Espionage is a side-effect not the center of it. Remember: Your people won't be happier to go into a Brothel when they know that their government is spending a lot on espionage. Knowing that most of the courtesans are SPIES is not very tempting.
On the other hand... If a Brothel is considered by the government as a "cultural institution" and courtesans are viewed as ARTISTS than a Brothel can be a source of for some (not the wives of course).
Therefore the / is legitim.

 

[GreedyManul]

I disagree in this one. Espionage is a side-effect not the center of it. Remember: Your people won't be happier to go into a Brothel when they know that their government is spending a lot on espionage. Knowing that most of the courtesans are SPIES is not very tempting.
On the other hand... If a Brothel is considered by the government as a "cultural institution" and courtesans are viewed as ARTISTS than a Brothel can be a source of for some (not the wives of course).
Therefore the / is legitim.

Fair point.

 

[Vokarya]

The one thing I don't want to do is happiness from gold spending. Gold in the treasury is valuable enough by itself that I don't think it should be rewarded further.

I'm not sure about reducing Broadcast Tower. The granularity of getting something at 10% seems useful to me. Otherwise you get big jumps at certain % levels.

 

[Samson]

The one thing I don't want to do is happiness from gold spending. Gold in the treasury is valuable enough by itself that I don't think it should be rewarded further.

I'm not sure about reducing Broadcast Tower. The granularity of getting something at 10% seems useful to me. Otherwise you get big jumps at certain % levels.

You know that if you have 2 buildings with happiness per 20% that is the same as 1 with happiness per 10%?

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

build both and you have 5 at 20%

Cultural victory is a VICTORY aspect of the game.

Its really a result you aim for. Go for a Cultural victory and you people will love you.

Lots of UNHAPPY for large empire. I myself in my current game, have a 70+city empire, and are experiencing a -10 "we hate how large our empire has become"

Restricting the size of my cities.

I'm not complaining, it just adds to the depth of game play, still keep me engrossed in this mod after 5 yrs.

 

[Vokarya]

You know that if you have 2 buildings with happiness per 20% that is the same as 1 with happiness per 10%?

Not exactly. If you have 1 building at 10% and the culture slider set to 30%, you get +3 happiness. If you have 2 buildings at 20% and the culture slider set to 30%, you only get +2 happiness. That's why I said the granularity is important. Otherwise you get big breakpoints, which I don't think is good.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Orphaned building - Free port.

The Free port, is an orphaned building, it has no upgrade, no pre-requisite. It is available at Economics with free market civic.

My solution would be as follows.

Sea port - Available at Compass, would upgrade to the Free port at Economics, deleting free market civic requirement. If this is too short a life span, move either one about, Free port to Steam power. This then upgrades to International port at Logistics.

If all this is too short, I'd suggest just deleting the free port, as it has similar attributes, but lessor than the sea port.

As it stands at the moment, you can build BOTH in you coastal cities. IF your running Free market civic. Sea port has no such requirement.

I see it as a doubling of building attributes, if running free market civic. A virtual cheat in my books. *and yes I do use it. I'm a builder of cites and empires, not rule books*

 

[<Nexus>]

I see it as a doubling of building attributes, if running free market civic.

That's exactly the point with it. It's one of the benefits of running Free Market. I think it's good the way it is. Civic buildings don't need to be tied into any upgrade chain. They require civics to be active.