Agreed. But -15% production is big, and +10% gold doesn't make up for it. I had an idea; what if Casino used the Employs 1 Citizens mechanic instead of the hammer penalty? Then you (or your city governor) could decide where to take the hit. We could then increase the gold bonus as necessary so that building the Casino is a bonus, not a penalty.
Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
Agreed. But -15% production is big, and +10% gold doesn't make up for it. I had an idea; what if Casino used the Employs 1 Citizens mechanic instead of the hammer penalty? Then you (or your city governor) could decide where to take the hit. We could then increase the gold bonus as necessary so that building the Casino is a bonus, not a penalty.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Nope. Your people also spend time in the Storyteller's Circle, Temples, Theater, Opera and other "entertainment" buildings, but those have no such penalty.
I would prefer to simply drop the
penalty and re-balance the 
as needed. Employing a citizen means the building gives a lot of workplaces as if it was a workable tile. Casino is different.Not sure where you get this from. Coal plant also employs one citizen, but in the grand scheme of things real power plants don't employ many people...
I don't like the mechanic the way it's currently used, because it's so erratic. Forge uses a person, factory doesn't. It's weird, inconsistent.
Hmmm...
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Forge uses a person??
I never noticed.I wasn't sure about Factory, but I think it should be designed that way.
You are right about Coal plant, as it doesn't need as much workers as a Factory, but it needs highly trained labor. It quasi takes a scientist/engineer slot away.
So in the case of the Energy Plants, it's quality of workers that justifies the "employs 1 citizen"; while in the case of Factory (and its kind) it is quantity that would justify it.
Sum:
I believe the whole "Employs 1 citizen" concept and its usage should be reviewed and clarified. Starting with clarifying what does the employed citizen exactly represent
I find that the "Employs 1 citizen" property is by far the greatest malus that any of the buildings gives. In particular when you are struggling to set the lux rate high enough that your cities do not starve from war weariness it can be a big problem to have citizens that are employed. It is always worth having a citizen employed to provide power, a foundry is a bit of a question mark for me, and I have never felt it worth it to build a gatehouse.
Just my 2c, it is an interesting mechanic at least.
Just my 2c, it is an interesting mechanic at least.
Forge uses a person??
Eh, ooops, I meant Foundry.
I too find the "Employs 1 Citizen" malus to be pretty severe. A Foundry only produces 5
, whereas if the Citizen were out working a mine in the Industrial era, he'd likely be producing five hammers as well as a commerce and maybe a food as well.Gatehouse. Why that needs a whole 'Citizen' is a total mystery to me. Never worth it in the slightest.
,so the conclusion is that it's not a very attractive building.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
Foundry also provides other bonuses as well, so the 1 Employed Citizen has almost never been a detriment for me. Its bonuses outweigh that con, except for in very very rare circumstances.
I've never once built a Gatehouse though. The one employed citizen feature in that case just doesn't seem to be worth it.
Though, does every building really need to be in every single city? Aren't there any that are situational that you'd only want in some key cities or are only for specific purposes? Besides, if your city had only 3 citizens to throw around, woudl you really bother with a building like that? They seem more intended for cities that can afford to set aside production in that manner, which a Foundry would majorly outweigh a citizen working a single tile - regardless of whatever other yields might be there.
"Employ 1 Engineer"? How would that work?
I've never once built a Gatehouse though. The one employed citizen feature in that case just doesn't seem to be worth it.
Though, does every building really need to be in every single city? Aren't there any that are situational that you'd only want in some key cities or are only for specific purposes? Besides, if your city had only 3 citizens to throw around, woudl you really bother with a building like that? They seem more intended for cities that can afford to set aside production in that manner, which a Foundry would majorly outweigh a citizen working a single tile - regardless of whatever other yields might be there.
"Employ 1 Engineer"? How would that work?
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Same here, I build it wherever possibleFoundry also provides other bonuses as well, so the 1 Employed Citizen has almost never been a detriment for me. Its bonuses outweigh that con, except for in very very rare circumstances.
"Employ 1 Engineer"? How would that work?
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
Foundry is a great base building. You'd only build it if you had the city capacity to cope with it.
A 3 Pop city, isn't going to waste its time on a foundry, other more important buildings are a MUCH better return for hammers invested.
A 3 Pop city, isn't going to waste its time on a foundry, other more important buildings are a MUCH better return for hammers invested.
I think Casino should be a little bit unusual as far as its effects go. We have several buildings that just generate gold, especially Market-type buildings and Bank/E-Bank. I would like Casino to actually be a gamble. If it means giving it better abilities, so be it.
So here's a tweaking question. Does Glassmith really need to have any resource requirements? Currently, it requires both Stone and Salt resources. Stone is not an uncommon resource, but Salt is.
Most manufactured resources do have some kind of raw material requirement, but not all. Glassware also doesn't do quite as much as many other resources. It is only required for Alchemist's Lab, Copernicus' Observatory, and Crystal Palace. I don't think it would be that problematic if we just cut the resource requirements completely.
Most manufactured resources do have some kind of raw material requirement, but not all. Glassware also doesn't do quite as much as many other resources. It is only required for Alchemist's Lab, Copernicus' Observatory, and Crystal Palace. I don't think it would be that problematic if we just cut the resource requirements completely.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
It's okay for me. Honestly, I don't understand the Stone+Salt requirement.
Can we do something like +1
/20%
slider?Manor / Nobility:
Just noticed that that Nobility civic allows unlimited Nobles, while its civic building gives a Noble slot, which is no bonus in this case. I suggest it giving a free Noble.
Greek Fire requires an Alchemist's Lab, which requires Glassware.
Basically if you don't have Salt, you can't build Greek Fire.
I think Glass smith should have some resource requirement. In ancient times glass was not easy to manufacture.
Basically if you don't have Salt, you can't build Greek Fire.
I think Glass smith should have some resource requirement. In ancient times glass was not easy to manufacture.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
I agree, but... Stone+Salt?
How about making Glass smith a World Wonder (max5) and National Wonder (max2)?
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Why would you do both? If any, making 5 in the whole world, producing 3 glass should be enough.I agree, but... Stone+Salt?
How about making Glass smith a World Wonder (max5) and National Wonder (max2)?
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
45°38'N-13°47'E;13843937 said:
In that way no civ could get total monopolium on glassware.
45°38'N-13°47'E;13843937 said:
In general I am a bit confused as to why the resource creating buildings like glass smiths/paper mills/oil refinery/breweries etc are normal buildings and not atleast national wonders
My reasoning for this is that one building creates multiple of the manufactured resources from one base resource. That means that usually one building is enough to supply your empire and also gives you a comfortable (actually unneeded) excess amount to theoretically trade with. I say theoretically because the AI considers these resources worthless for trade in 99% of situations (whether by design or lack of implementation I am not sure) and in any case should consider them worthless because due to design there is always such an excess in supply they can be had for nothing and the AI immediately builds its own anyway given half the chance.
I think making them national wonders or something would also make it easier to code them for the AI to understand e.g (I only need one of this building to have glass to build observatories/labs etc) rather than them being another normal building the AI has to pick from in its rulesets.
As a side note of this AI building commentary, I do not know if this is related at all but the 'recommended building' algorithm, that was already average in normal civ games with very simplistic rule sets, really struggles with the huge amount of new content with AND and is pretty much useless, I remember this because for example glass smith is something that somehow must have a huge weighting in the ruleset because the second you can build them the algorithm picks them up as the absolute priority to build for every single city you have constantly (I imagine if it was intentionally coded like that it would be to indicate their value of creating a strategic resource). I do not know if this 'recommended building' and 'recommended unit' algorithm is what the AI runs off or what your cities would build if you turn on the AI city manager ?
wouldn't a monopoly or atleast an oligopoly on these 'strategic' resources create some interesting situations or atleast allow civs that inhabit naturally resource poor areas of the map to still compete in an a game by trading ? (a bit like the real world)
I think that was the original reasoning behind these new manufactured resources anyway, although I may be completely wrong
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
You are right, but usually "The rich gets richer" so the civs with access to many resources have a greater chance for to produce the manufactured resources as well.
So the right solution? Dunno
