Vox Populi Civilizations Compatibility Request Thread

[pineappledan]

Sounds quite reasonable to me! Don't forget to add to the CBO compatible civ superthread

 

[ArchangelOfDoom]

Sounds quite reasonable to me! Don't forget to add to the CBO compatible civ superthread

Will do as soon as I figure out how to isolate my changes from the base civ

 

[pineappledan]

It's not unusual to have cbp compatible mods that run in addition to the base mod. You just have to add that stipulation in the description

 

[ArchangelOfDoom]

It's not unusual to have cbp compatible mods that run in addition to the base mod. You just have to add that stipulation in the description

The issue is my mod doesn't run in addition to the base mod. It's merely a modification of the base mod and I feel bad uploading it anywhere as it still is mostly Sukritact's work. What I'm doing now is trying to move all the fixes I made to another mod that would then work in conjunction with the base mod as you suggest.

 

[Enginseer]

The issue is my mod doesn't run in addition to the base mod. It's merely a modification of the base mod and I feel bad uploading it anywhere as it still is mostly Sukritact's work. What I'm doing now is trying to move all the fixes I made to another mod that would then work in conjunction with the base mod as you suggest.

See all my mod that adds onto the original civ mod rather than modify the civ mod. Otherwise you may send me two modified and the original file and I will make appropriate changes for a mod that modify just the original civ mod.

 

[DesertFox20591]

I said database logging. Not your mod list.

i don't know where i can find the database log. can you tell me where i find them?

 

[ArchangelOfDoom]

Chinook is finally up on the compatible civ thread. Sorry it took so long, my ISP decided to take a massive dump on me and kill my internet for 3 days :/

 

[Enginseer]

Chinook is finally up on the compatible civ thread. Sorry it took so long, my ISP decided to take a massive dump on me and kill my internet for 3 days :/

It seems very lackluster for VP balance. I'll give you my thoughts after trying it out.

UA: Coastal Resources are automatically improved ( upon discovering their reveal tech ). Salmon and Orca may periodically migrate to and from Cities within range of the Coast; being more likely to migrate to to Cities adjacent to Rivers and to Cities which have built a Plankhouse.

Suggested UA: Salmon and Orca spawn when a city is founded. Salmon and Orca migrate(disappear) periodically when unowned. +1 Food to Rivers and Lakes. +1 Gold to Coast and Oceans.

This acts as a naval Indonesia basically while favoring water-based tiles.

UU:The Chinookan Unique Workboat. The Esquai-ah is a ranged naval unit that retreats before combat. It can prevent sources of Salmon and Orca from migrating away when stationed on them and can repair pillaged coastal improvements. It is also much cheaper to construct than the workboat.

Since Salmon and Orca can never technically migrate anymore with my suggested UA, their combat strength now increase over time upon each era change allowing them to act as a pseudo-combat ship that can also patrol the nearby waters which are essentially cheap and affordable to use. A militia navy to say.

UB: Plankhouse
The Chinookan unique replacement for the Lighthouse. Unlike the Lighthouse, the Plankhouse may be built in cities with access to any source of water (Coast, Ocean, River or Lake) and is unlocked earlier. When built next to a River it also increases the Gold yield of trade routes.

I'm just surprised that you nerfed the UB. It seems like a generic lighthouse now with a "mini-caravansary" that grants bonus gold from trade routes only if you didn't accidentally settle near a river. Unless there was a rework. It seems really weak even to the Denmark's UB.

 

[ArchangelOfDoom]

It seems very lackluster for VP balance. I'll give you my thoughts after trying it out.


Suggested UA: Salmon and Orca spawn when a city is founded. Salmon and Orca migrate(disappear) periodically when unowned. +1 Food to Rivers and Lakes. +1 Gold to Coast and Oceans.

This acts as a naval Indonesia basically while favoring water-based tiles.

Would this be a spawning a single copy or would it still be something along the lines of the current number of resources spawned? I'm assuming the issue you're having is RNG deciding the number of resources spawned.

Since Salmon and Orca can never technically migrate anymore with my suggested UA, their combat strength now increase over time upon each era change allowing them to act as a pseudo-combat ship that can also patrol the nearby waters which are essentially cheap and affordable to use. A militia navy to say.

This could be done, how should I scale their strenght? Make them a somewhat weaker naval ranged unit for every era?

I'm just surprised that you nerfed the UB. It seems like a generic lighthouse now with a "mini-caravansary" that grants bonus gold from trade routes only if you didn't accidentally settle near a river. Unless there was a rework. It seems really weak even to the Denmark's UB.

I'm not sure how I nerfed the UB. Do you mean the removal of the fish +1 that it had because it was what the regular LH has? Everything else is exactly the same or better ( the other VP changes ) than it is in the default mod.

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

 

[Enginseer]

Would this be a spawning a single copy or would it still be something along the lines of the current number of resources spawned? I'm assuming the issue you're having is RNG deciding the number of resources spawned.



This could be done, how should I scale their strenght? Make them a somewhat weaker naval ranged unit for every era?



I'm not sure how I nerfed the UB. Do you mean the removal of the fish +1 that it had because it was what the regular LH has? Everything else is exactly the same or better ( the other VP changes ) than it is in the default mod.

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

Yes, the RNG deciding the number of resources spawned is rather disturbing. "periodically migrating" resources make maintaining monopolies with salmon and orcas difficult.

You can scale their strength easily through a table addition that illiteroi wanted to use, but never got to optimized on it. I think it was Unit_EraCombatStrength.

Well that's the point of the UB. It shouldn't be the "same or better". It should be explored and better diversified from other UB as best as possible.

 

[ArchangelOfDoom]

Yes, the RNG deciding the number of resources spawned is rather disturbing. "periodically migrating" resources make maintaining monopolies with salmon and orcas difficult.

I thought it would be a cool "minigame" of rolling the dice until you get the resources you want and then locking them down with the UU. I guess you could reduce the migration interval ( currently at 20 turns standard speed ). Monopoly shouldn't be an issue as long as you have a single source of both resources locked down somewhere. I understand how this might not be to everyone's liking, but I kind of like it and don't really want to change it.

You can scale their strength easily through a table addition that illiteroi wanted to use, but never got to optimized on it. I think it was Unit_EraCombatStrength.

I'll look into it, would 80% of current era default ranged unit stats be acceptable?

Well that's the point of the UB. It shouldn't be the "same or better". It should be explored and better diversified from other UB as best as possible.

I actually wasn't aware of the Danish UB ability to be built inland ( Don't really like constant war civs ). I'll try to think of ways to improve the UB. The lazy fix would be to add a "save 15% food on growth" effect or some such.

 

[Funak]

Not really my place to judge, especially not since you're just working with the material available to you. But having all three units working together to create a weaker version of the Indonesian UA feels kinda weak to me.

 

[Enginseer]

Not really my place to judge, especially not since you're just working with the material available to you. But having all three units working together to create a weaker version of the Indonesian UA feels kinda weak to me.

Which is why I'm not balancing that civ.

If I had to really balance it, I would make the UB a replacement of the Well. Allowing it to even be built in cities with watermills and supplement the lighthouse further down the classical era.

However, I can't remember if the Unit_EraCombatStrength works for RangedCombatStrength as well. Ah it doesn't. Oh well, you can add in a EraPromotion to boost the RangedCombatStrength and all those such.

However the UA is a much-naval alternative to Indonesia since Indonesia's resources run at a risk of trickle-down happiness(resources somehow expand into enemy lands) and lack of land.

But this is not my mod. It's his choice to freely do so.

 

[ArchangelOfDoom]

I had some time to look at the civ again. Buffed the UB so that it increases the yields of all rivers, lakes and sea tiles by 1 food or 1 culture if the city has salmon or orca, respectively. I may have gone overboard. Thoughts?

 

[pineappledan]

If I had to really balance it, I would make the UB a replacement of the Well. Allowing it to even be built in cities with watermills and supplement the lighthouse further down the classical era.

That is definitely a cool idea, especially considering there are no UBs which replace the well right now. removing the plot requirements and making it stack on water mills would implicitly give that river bias the base building asks for, without that god-awful +2 to trade routes, which is useful for 2-3 cities at best.
Looking at the real plankhouses, they are housing complexes, effectively pacific coast longhouses, but the way the wood is harvested from living cedar is truly fascinating.

If I were doing the Chinook (which I am not), my suggestion would be as follows (differences from well in bold):
Plankhouse: well replacement
unlocked at mining
+1 prod, +1 food
+1 prod and food for every 4 citizens (0.20/pop -> 0.25/pop, same as water mill)

no buildings restrictions (can be built on river, can be built in city with water mill)
Optional (pick 1)
+1 culture from lumber mills (Reflect the cedar harvesting. Could be too much)
+1 food on improved ocean resources (addresses how VP compatibility removed lighthouse's +1 food on fish)
+1 unit supply cap (reflects that these were housing complexes & offsets Esquai-ah eating up supply)

Chinook Plankhouse & Watermill Vs. Aztec Chinampa:
Same base yields (3/3 - food/prod)
Better pop to food/prod conversion (0.5 vs 0.4 per pop)
+75 hammers to build (partially)
-1 gold (doubles building maintenance)
Available earlier (partially)
more flexible/less dependent on fresh water
Toss-up on tile yields. Food on river more plentiful than improved resources; sea resources stack gains higher for less pop working.
Lumbermill buff way worse; it's only useful much later & requires improvement. Unlikely to use lumbermill bonus much because of civ's coastal bias, but it add's historicity and softens how absolutely addicted to coastline this civ is.

What I have outlined above is of course slightly above the desired power curve for a UB. I intended to give options, not a final word on what should be done. I would drop supply cap and change +1 on workboats to just +1 on fish only. The stackability with water mill is interesting enough on its own

However, I can't remember if the Unit_EraCombatStrength works for RangedCombatStrength as well. Ah it doesn't. Oh well, you can add in a EraPromotion to boost the RangedCombatStrength and all those such.

When matched with @ArchangelOfDoom's other change of it only taking 1 Esquai-Ah to lock down a city, I don't see much need in a constant buff to keep the ship relevant. If shirtless dudes in a canoe can hit for even 50% of what a frigate does for the price of a discount workboat in the same era, that would break the game. The fact that the UU already comes a full tech level before any other civ has access to naval units is interesting enough already.

- maximum scales with era 2->2->3->3->3->4->4
- minimum starts at 0, but is incremented by 1 for any of the following: settling the city on a river, building a Plankhouse or the city being a capital

I would take the way you described the UA in this thread and copy it to the CBO compatibility superthread. The way you described it in this thread a week back was much easier for me to understand. If it were me, I would also bump 4 luxes up to industrial (2->2->3->3->4->4->4), but that's super minor.

So, w.r.t. Indonesia, the Chinook are:

• more limited in city placement (UA restricted to coast, Indonesia can settle inland and still use their UA)
• get their 3rd tile at almost the same time, but based on a luck roll, refreshing every 20 turns
• have fewer unique monopolies (2 vs 3)
• Are required to eat into unit maintenance and supply cap to maintain their UA's luxuries

In return for all these down-sides, they get:

• Automatic improvement of luxuries
• 1 extra luxury tile at the modern era (Indonesia caps at 3/city)

I had a little trouble wrapping my head around the luck system at play, but I really do love what you've done with it. In comparison to Indonesia, though, the Chinook UA is lackluster.

I think the easiest and most interesting way to rectify the lack of power with the chinook UA is to make the monopoly bonuses on orca and salmon more powerful/unique. Indonesia gets:

• 5 global happiness on cloves
• 3 prod on nutmeg per tile
• 20% growth in all cities from pepper
• whatever that 3rd luxury can be traded for to other civs (gold/treaties/luxuries, etc.)

I propose, orca monopolies give +1 tourism & +2 GAP per tile (whale-watching), and salmon give +2 food per tile & +10% culture to cities. This would synergize with their luxury focus, which promotes peaceful play & trade routes, ie. cultural/diplo victory. Getting a source of tourism up that fast might be a balance issue; I don't know. Maybe the GAP alone is good enough

But of course, that is entirely my opinion. I just took Enginseer's critique and ran with it

 

[Jarula]

Question to add let's say to a UA +2C +2S to a great work type and specialist type would be?

For example great works of writing and great writers

Making a vox edition D'NI

 

[Enginseer]

Question to add let's say to a UA +2C +2S to a great work type and specialist type would be?

For example great works of writing and great writers

Making a vox edition D'NI

See Assyria's UA and Korea's UA.

 

[SLGray]

Should this not be in the mod subforum section? Also is there not one already in that section?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Should this not be in the mod subforum section? Also is there not one already in that section?

The thread in Mods Repository is solely for posting completed civ mods. We keep the discussion separate so the completed projects don’t get lost in he discussion.

 

[SLGray]

Ok.

Thanks for clarifying it for me.