Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop

[Stalker0]

If the marriage is weakened like this, maybe we could relax the restriction on when marriages are allowed? Could just make it require being allied, and not allied for 5 turns. That always struck me as onerous, hard to track/remember to go back to for players, and a bit of a pain.

Maybe 1 vote per 3 marriages or something. I do agree removing the 1 to 1 is a good idea, but I don't think we need to toss the mechanic entirely.

 

[pineappledan]

Maybe 1 vote per 3 marriages or something. I do agree removing the 1 to 1 is a good idea, but I don't think we need to toss the mechanic entirely.

Like the old Germany UA. Mmm… I don’t like that.

Instead of making the ability weaker and simpler, that makes it weaker and more complex. Now players would need to track how many more marriages they need for an additional WC vote, and factor that into the price. I also will reiterate my opinion that if a UA bonus sits for 3 full eras doing nothing then it’s not a very good UA bonus.

If the ability needs to be compensated for the loss of the WC vote, that could be done by making the resting influence or GP rate bonus stronger, or making marriages easier to do by removing the 5 turn wait time or lowering the Cost.

 

[azum4roll]

"Defensive buildings" should only include Walls, Castle, Bastion Fort, Arsenal and Military Base. Mine Field and Strategic Defense System should be excluded from Japan UA and Military-Industrial Complex.

 

[N.Core]

"Defensive buildings" should only include Walls, Castle, Bastion Fort, Arsenal and Military Base. Mine Field and Strategic Defense System should be excluded from Japan UA and Military-Industrial Complex.

Why not just Include Walls, Castle, Bastion Fort and Arsenal then call it "Pre-Atomic Defensive buildings"? Japan's UA and Mil-Ind Complex were designed before Bastion Fort was a thing in VP.

 

[pineappledan]

Definitely support tighter definitions on "All Yields" (drop ) and "Defensive buildings" (drop minefield and SDF)

Could call it "Defensive line" buildings, which would imply the single progression of these buildings that require each other as prerequisites. I don't know if that would be more clear

 

[Legen]

I've been thinking of nerfing Brazil's UA to only proc the GAP conversion starting at either Renaissance Era, or upon researching Compass (which currently unlocks their UU). This would prevent the AI from turning the difficulty handicap's free GAP from settling cities into a pseudo Carthage UA.

This would also match Brazil's historical start, as the Portuguese discovered it in 1500, and that year is treated among Brazilians as the official start of their country's history.

 

[pineappledan]

funny. I was also thinking of nerfing brazil, but via a different method:

Move brazilwood camp back to metal casting (same tech as standard lumber mills)
increase base to 3 and remove the +2 tech increase at physics

 

[Legen]

I'm not willing to nerf Brazil drastically because how it performs with the AI doesn't match how it performs in human hands, due to how the AI handicap keeps giving GAP. I'd rather address the AI issues before doing anything that changes too much how the civ performs for a human.

 

[Stalker0]

I think bombardment and targetting promotions (naval) might need a look at. I am finding bombardment to actually be the superior promotion the majority of the time, as it gives defense bonuses and the extra offense from targeting only happens at under 50%

 

[Recursive]

@pineappledan The extra 25 AI Gold from Barbarian Camps was a bug and is now fixed, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Also I love the Statue of Zeus proposal.

 

[R3P0]

I propose an option to allow us not to propose anything to congress if our options will just anger other civs. We should be able to abstain from proposing and voting.

 

[Stalker0]

Time to me make tribute not suck anymore, just have to figure out the right proposal for it.

 

[azum4roll]

Time to me make tribute not suck anymore, just have to figure out the right proposal for it.

First unstack the yield types, then we can talk about the numbers. Food and culture just aren't worth the same.

 

[pineappledan]

some more civ specific proposals in light of the civ win rate stats that were just posted

Spoiler Huns buff :

Increase Huns' bonus to inflicting war weariness on enemy civs from +50% to +100%
ie. inflicts double war weariness and receives half

reduce the improvement time on the Eki from 800 to 500 (slightly slower than a fort)
the Eki is used by players to set the expansion priority for the civs UA, but it is built so slowly that you can sometimes miss your window with it. It's also not that strong as a UI goes, so I'm not sure why its build time is set so high other than for parity with pastures

Spoiler rescale all military unit faith costs :

Zealotry and Spain's UA are both kind of useless right now, because faith purchasing units is too expensive. The individual faith costs of all units are individually set for each unit in the game, and roughly follow this formula:
100 starting in ancient
+100 for each step at Classical, Medieval, and Renaissance, Modern
+200 for each step at Industrial and Atomic
No additional cost scaling at Information
+50 if it's a boat
plus an extra +250 for missile cruisers, nuclear subs, and mechs

proposal: Halve all scaling, and remove the extra bumps at Industrial and Atomic, add one for information, remove the boat tax.
100 in ancient
+50 for every era after that, including information
no extra cost if it's a boat

Zealotry is an entire belief slot. 1/5 of your religion. lower amount of vs and the no-XP loss for purchases doesn't make up for the fact that is just more valuable and harder to generate than , and that significant opportunity costs were incurred to unlock buying military units this way.
Spain is currently at the very bottom of the civ balance, and at least 1 significant part of their problem is that their ability to -purchase boats is both more situational and more expensive than zealotry's land units.

 

[Anarcomu]

Also; not entirely sure but I think that base increased faith cost from Era ( +50% at renaissance, +50% at industrial, +100% after) also apply to unit bought with faith, in addition to having increased base cost. This make buying units with faith kind of an exponential cost with eras.

 

[azum4roll]

Faith cost is 150% in Renaissance, 200% in Industrial, 300% in Modern, 400% in Atomic and 500% in Information. AI gets a discount.

 

[pineappledan]

So with the numbers I propose that is:
Ancient: 100
Class: 150
Med: 200
Ren: 375
Ind: 600
Mod: 1050
Atom: 1600
Info: 2250

That’s still pretty expensive, but it’s a lot more fair than what we have right now.

 

[azum4roll]

Buildings and combat units should just not scale with era. We can adjust their base costs if needed.

With that done we can then remove era scaling on some faith sources. Currently you NEED one of them to afford buildings/units in the later eras.

 

[Zuizgond]

I think India pressure should be toned down a little bit.

 

[pineappledan]

Should we continue to tinker with India as a passive pressure civ or try to do something else?

I just don’t know if removing an active component and then compensating by boosting a passive component is resulting in any interesting decisions or play styles.