Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop

[usadefcon1]

- A Unit that attacks and wins from a City or Fort shouldn't end its turn and should get +1 movement so it can advance if it wants to.

- If you send the "your troops are near my borders, are you going to attack me?" question and no war results, the promise not to attack should apply to both parties.

- Melee Cavalry should have a Charge mechanic (+15% CS when attacking -15% CS when defending). Lost when upgrading to Armor.

- The required improvement for a resource should be more obvious in the tooltip so we don't have to go digging to see if it gets a Mine or a Quarry.

- A tooltip if the terrain is Open or Rough would be nice.

- As of 4.5.1 King difficulty feels like Emperor difficulty to me. I would consider turning it down a bit.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

- If you send the "your troops are near my borders, are you going to attack me?" question and no war results, the promise not to attack should apply to both parties.

- Melee Cavalry should have a Charge mechanic (+15% CS when attacking -15% CS when defending). Lost when upgrading to Armor.

- The required improvement for a resource should be more obvious in the tooltip so we don't have to go digging to see if it gets a Mine or a Quarry.

- A tooltip if the terrain is Open or Rough would be nice.

I agree with these and have no opinion/is agnostic about the others.

 

[Phosphoraptor]

Some concepts for proposals, I want to know if they are technically feasible (can the game be made to do this):

Hospital / Med Lab Rework:
- Hospital loses science from excess food, food yields, - poverty
- Hospital gains - urbanisation, less spec food cost, + spec yield (maybe science)
- Med Lab loses food
- Med Lab gains science on pop birth (basically burst of science on build)

New public works Tenets:
- Freedom gets +% gold/sci/culture from PW
- Order gets instant PW completion in non-puppets, + happiness from PW
- Autocracy gets +% PW production, more with courthouse

(EDIT) Project to reduce Supply but increase unit CS and costs:
- Several per civ one time projects that unlock from Renaissance Era onwards
- Each project reduces supply, increases unit and city CS, increases unit cost and maintenance
- Supply decrease uses +% supply penalty from tech, CS uses generic +% CS
- Numbers increase for each project to counter diminishing returns
- Less efficient repeatable version for warmongers.

 

[CppMaster]

A Unit that attacks and wins from a City or Fort shouldn't end its turn and should get +1 movement so it can advance if it wants to.

Why?

 

[Anarcomu]

I was looking back at the rework Artistry workshop proposal here.
One of the problem that was brought is that part of the tree is useless the moment it is unlocked (which I agree with).
I got an idea about the artifact/landmark one :

Name	Current	Proposed	Rational
National Treasure	+2 Science from Artifacts, a Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital, gain 250 Gold when you construct World Wonders scaling with Era.	Completing an Archaeological Dig or Starting a Golden Age triggers or strengthens an existing Historic Event, a Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital, gain 250 Gold when you construct World Wonders scaling with Era.	Artifact bonus is moved to the finisher where it belongs with the antiquity site rework, so I move part of the finisher here to compensate.
Finisher	Unlocks Louvre, completing an Archaeological Dig or Starting a Golden Age triggers or strengthens an existing Historic Event, Allows you to see Hidden Antiquity Sites, +3 Science from Landmarks, allows for the purchase of Great Musicians with Faith starting in the Industrial Era.	Unlocks Louvre, Allows you to see all Antiquity Sites immediately (hidden included), +3 Science from Artifacts, Antiquity Sites and Landmarks, allows for the purchase of Great Musicians with Faith starting in the Industrial Era.	This makes the finisher useful the moment it is unlocked. You still cannot get artifact until you get Archeologist, but you start getting science immediately, and you can plan to grab territories with sites on them. Also you're not putting GPTI on them.

I'm not touching the rest, just a thought about that particular problem.

 

[pineappledan]

Med Lab gains science on pop birth (basically burst of science on build)

This is identical to the current yields on birth from universities.
Why not move the food to science converter to med lab, since you propose to remove it from hospital?

Name	Current	Proposed	Rational
National Treasure	+2 Science from Artifacts, a Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital, gain 250 Gold when you construct World Wonders scaling with Era.	Completing an Archaeological Dig or Starting a Golden Age triggers or strengthens an existing Historic Event, a Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital, gain 250 Gold when you construct World Wonders scaling with Era.	Artifact bonus is moved to the finisher where it belongs with the antiquity site rework, so I move part of the finisher here to compensate.
Finisher	Unlocks Louvre, completing an Archaeological Dig or Starting a Golden Age triggers or strengthens an existing Historic Event, Allows you to see Hidden Antiquity Sites, +3 Science from Landmarks, allows for the purchase of Great Musicians with Faith starting in the Industrial Era.	Unlocks Louvre, Allows you to see all Antiquity Sites immediately (hidden included), +3 Science from Artifacts, Antiquity Sites and Landmarks, allows for the purchase of Great Musicians with Faith starting in the Industrial Era.	This makes the finisher useful the moment it is unlocked. You still cannot get artifact until you get Archeologist, but you start getting science immediately, and you can plan to grab territories with sites on them. Also you're not putting GPTI on them.

Egypt can use the artifact bonus immediately.

The artifact bonus is on a tenet because of symmetry. all tenets in the Artistry boost a great work type, and I'm opposed to breaking up that symmetry. As you say, since the bonus won't come into play until archaeology, it doesn't matter where the artifact bonus unlocks, so we can put it anywhere in the tree and it doesn't matter. Your non-reason for moving it is no better than my non-reason for putting it there in the first place. The artifact bonus was put on National treasure because it is often the last policy adopted in the tree.

I support moving the GA triggers earlier to National Treasure. I think that adds some flexibility for people who want to mix trees.

Making antiquity sites visible on a policy unlock in addition to the tech unlock is a technical hurdle. I think you need to consult @Rekk , who has dabbled in ruin visibility stuff before as to whether or not that is technically feasible.

 

[usadefcon1]

Why?

I had a situation where a barb took my worker and I couldn't get them back because I got stuck in my city. I guess it's an unusual scenario.

 

[saamohod]

I had a situation where a barb took my worker and I couldn't get them back because I got stuck in my city. I guess it's an unusual scenario.

Yeah. Ideally you should be able to capture the civilian units too in this case, as per normal mechanic.

 

[Rekk]

I was looking back at the rework Artistry workshop proposal here.
One of the problem that was brought is that part of the tree is useless the moment it is unlocked (which I agree with).
I got an idea about the artifact/landmark one :

Name	Current	Proposed	Rational
National Treasure	+2 Science from Artifacts, a Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital, gain 250 Gold when you construct World Wonders scaling with Era.	Completing an Archaeological Dig or Starting a Golden Age triggers or strengthens an existing Historic Event, a Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital, gain 250 Gold when you construct World Wonders scaling with Era.	Artifact bonus is moved to the finisher where it belongs with the antiquity site rework, so I move part of the finisher here to compensate.
Finisher	Unlocks Louvre, completing an Archaeological Dig or Starting a Golden Age triggers or strengthens an existing Historic Event, Allows you to see Hidden Antiquity Sites, +3 Science from Landmarks, allows for the purchase of Great Musicians with Faith starting in the Industrial Era.	Unlocks Louvre, Allows you to see all Antiquity Sites immediately (hidden included), +3 Science from Artifacts, Antiquity Sites and Landmarks, allows for the purchase of Great Musicians with Faith starting in the Industrial Era.	This makes the finisher useful the moment it is unlocked. You still cannot get artifact until you get Archeologist, but you start getting science immediately, and you can plan to grab territories with sites on them. Also you're not putting GPTI on them.

I'm not touching the rest, just a thought about that particular problem.

Antiquity sites don't exist until the first person researches Archaeology.

 

[Anarcomu]

Antiquity sites don't exist until the first person researches Archaeology.

...Wow. I remember @Hinin 's Egypt rework allowing them to get some of them and build their UI on them. But they might as well be forcefully spawn by Egypt's UA in this case.
I bet it is out of the question then.

But it also means that you can't built GPTI on them by accident prior Archeology since, then, they don't exist.

 

[Phosphoraptor]

This is identical to the current yields on birth from universities.
Why not move the food to science converter to med lab, since you propose to remove it from hospital?

(Editing as I post since I keep losing half of my draft)
I should probably explain the reasoning behind the proposals, just typed it out during lunch break.


Hospital / Med Lab rework:
Generally food and pop growth are less valuable in the late game, so Im reworking these growth buildings to have a different role or change the value of growth.

Hospital is designed have high pop cities that are running out of good tiles to transition to specialists. Also makes the Biology tech with SoL and hospitals synergise with Freedoms specialist tenets.

Med Lab is reworked to an instant yield building that is more attractive to build in the endgame


To answer your question, the mechanism is the same but play different roles due to the different stage of the game they come in. Uni’s pop science acts like a constant yield from Medieval onwards, while Med Lab’s yield acts more like an instant yield mini bulb with its 2 instant pops. This can be substituted with food to sci conversion but both mechanisms will need very high numbers to be competitive with science process and be worth the maintenance.

I chose sci on birth over conversion since players usually build for other yields over food at that stage of the game, but conversion can also work as a Freedom tailored building with the new hospital.


Public work Tenets:
Havent seen anything interesting done with this mechanic, so Im giving it a shot.

The Freedom tenet basically is an alternative to processes that allows PW in the mid game to act as an investment for the late game in more peaceful games. It will be interesting to find the right moment to switch from PW building to processes.

The Order tenet continues the theme of instant free stuff and is an instant happiness boost for wide empires

The Autocracy tenet is made for map painters who just want to not struggle over happiness. The production it frees up is also good for more processes/nukes/GDRs

The tenets are intended to be T2, but T2 feels crowded already, should I reduce the power to fit in T1 or is T2 still good?


Supply project thing:
My solution for late game unit carpets that is more customisable for different playstyles. The one time projects are meant to give better CS increases but wont reduce supply by much. The repeatables will be where most of the supply tweaking is, but will give less CS increases.

So, a warmonger with massive carpets might rush all the one time projects and spam the repeatables, while players strained for supply will not do the repeatables but will need to eventually do the one time projects to keep up.

Do note that players are expected to delete units to stay under cap. Unfortunately there is no unit merging like CIV 6 so this will be necessary.

 

[pineappledan]

Would it be possible to make antiquity sites exist when either
a) archeology is researched, or
b) a player finishes the artistry tree
So whichever trigger happens first puts the ruins down?

 

[Rekk]

But they might as well be forcefully spawn by Egypt's UA in this case.

Yes, that's what my lua code does.

Would it be possible to make antiquity sites exist when either
a) archeology is researched, or
b) a player finishes the artistry tree
So whichever trigger happens first puts the ruins down?

Yes. In practice, this will almost always guarantee that they get placed by policy and not by technology.

 

[pineappledan]

Yes. In practice, this will almost always guarantee that they get placed by policy and not by technology

In larger games, yes you are probably going to have at least 1 artistry civ that isn’t so far behind in policies relative to the tech leader. However, you still need the archaeology backstop.

It would mean fewer renaissance antiquity sites overall (though not entirely disappeared), and more variable timing for when antiquity sites are placed. Also, the sooner a civ finishes artistry, the better antiquity sites will be globally, because there will be relatively more ancient-medieval ones.

 

[usadefcon1]

Melee Cavalry get the Free Promotion "Charge" (+15% Combat Strength when attacking, except when attacking cities. -15% Combat Strength when defending). Lost when upgrading to Armor.

Existing Promotion "Charge I" gets renamed to "Pursuit I" (10% Combat Strength when attacking Units in Open Terrain. +20% Combat Strength when attacking Wounded Units.)
Existing Promotion "Charge II" gets renamed to "Pursuit II" (10% Combat Strength when attacking Units in Open Terrain. +20% Combat Strength when attacking Wounded Units.)

Rational: Melee Cavalry have the feel of being a faster swordsman. This change seeks to make them more of a mobile shock troop but still vulnerable if caught off guard.

 

[azum4roll]

In larger games, yes you are probably going to have at least 1 artistry civ that isn’t so far behind in policies relative to the tech leader. However, you still need the archaeology backstop.

It would mean fewer renaissance antiquity sites overall (though not entirely disappeared), and more variable timing for when antiquity sites are placed. Also, the sooner a civ finishes artistry, the better antiquity sites will be globally, because there will be relatively more ancient-medieval ones.

Artistry tree is usually finished in early Renaissance, not late.

Melee Cavalry get the Free Promotion "Charge" (+15% Combat Strength when attacking, except when attacking cities. -15% Combat Strength when defending). Lost when upgrading to Armor.

Existing Promotion "Charge I" gets renamed to "Pursuit I" (10% Combat Strength when attacking Units in Open Terrain. +20% Combat Strength when attacking Wounded Units.)
Existing Promotion "Charge II" gets renamed to "Pursuit II" (10% Combat Strength when attacking Units in Open Terrain. +20% Combat Strength when attacking Wounded Units.)

Rational: Melee Cavalry have the feel of being a faster swordsman. This change seeks to make them more of a mobile shock troop but still vulnerable if caught off guard.

A +15% CS isn't going to help them much.

My proposal is that Mounted Melee gets % damage reduction when attacking units instead, since the damage taken while attacking is what stops them from being on the field constantly.

 

[Vaderkos]

1. Show (yes/no) sum of the votes given for resolution at top of congress voting notification. Tried to look into changing it but there is so much c++ magic.
2. Reduce the amount of text everywhere where possible utilizing just icons and numbers. For example something like `( +1[FOOD_ICON] +2[PROD_ICON]) [SLASH][TURN_ICON] `

 

[azum4roll]

2. Reduce the amount of text everywhere where possible utilizing just icons and numbers. For example something like `( +1[FOOD_ICON] +2[PROD_ICON]) [SLASH][TURN_ICON] `

No. As seen in More Wonders, it's hard to read when the icon/text ratio is too high.

 

[pineappledan]

Rename Freedom's "Trade Organization" tenet to "Containment"

No balance changes, it's just a better name.​

Trade Organization seems like it's attempting to be a reference to the European Union, but it's a limp, amorphous term. Containment more closely matches the bonuses the tenet gives, and has a more overt reference to Cold War liberal politics.​

Change Autocracy's "Commerce Raiders" to a slightly altered tenet called "Mare Nostrum"

+10% to Seaports (removed)​

+1 Oil and Coal for each CS alliance (unchanged)​

+2 to Atolls, Fishing Boats, and Offshore Oil Platforms​

Naval Ranged units gain the Mare Nostrum Promotion:​

+25% vs cities. +5 healing in friendly territory​

​

We already have Imperialism giving a bonus to naval melee. We don't have policies that boost naval ranged. The yields on kill bonus from the current tenet is paltry. Pure flavour.​

Commerce raiding as a doctrine is not a strictly Fascist/Axis thing, and predates the 20th century ideological struggles by more than a century.​

This policy is meant to be a reference to the War in the Atlantic in WW2, but does a poor job of portraying that, and there were two other Axis powers who were both far more concentrated on naval strategy than the Germans who get far less love in the policy name department.​

The current tenet gives a 10% modifier to 1 building in a mutually exclusive set, which seems a bit crappy. Industry's Division of Labour policy already gives % bonus to Seaports (AND Train Stations)​

Change Autocracy's "Tyranny" tenet to "Co-Prosperity Sphere"

No balance changes, it's just a better name.​

Tyranny isn't a bad name, but it's a very old concept and more of a synonym of Autocracy. It sounds more appropriate as an Authority policy name.​

 

[statusquo]

Guys, is this the right place to propose some ideas and concepts? Or this is only for "Big Boys"?
From time to time, i have some ideas, but they kinda vanish, if i dont do anything with them

PROPOSITION: Carriers gor 1xp per action of carried Air Unit
RATIONNELLE: There is a problem to get XP on carriers since, you kinda want them to do anything "but" directly engaging the enemy, as their main role is to carry air units, they shoutd get xp, just by doing that.
5 air units, each with 1 attack would be 5xp per turn, and 10xp max if you have logistics bombers, which should be acceptable, since other units had to swipe the area, so it shouldnt be OP in any way.
Hmm, as they usually be sorounded by escort which all make some sort of formation, maybe they should get 1xp per every action in 3-4 radius.
This way, maybe they should become even more expensive

PROPOSITION: Super Carriers shouldnt be available by upgrading normal carriers
RATIONNELLE: Real Super Carriers take years to build and they are extremly expensicve, if you have money in endgame, you can just "click and have" them, kinda spoils the fun
Also, since there is only 2 of them available, it shouldnt be a problem

Also, i think it would be nice to get some "dissidents" fightning mechanics as Autocracy. As Autocracy, you naturally have less resistance vs other influence due to over all less culture and tourism generation,
so its very hard to play when almost all the time 100% of your citizens are dissidents, shouldnt "war civs" be more authoritarian and keep people contenty by force ?
If other civs are better in terms of culture and tourism, there is not rally a good tool to fight that. I kinda noticed, culture bombs are kinda good to resist that, and Great Musician with tours, to
rush being popular in other cutlure, but still, it feels like something missing.