Vpr1-Monarch & Emperor

[fbouthil]

Oups! I did not know about the 20 turns for the first player. Here is the rest then:

IBT - Salamanca borders expands showing more forest and grassland S, The jungle seems to extend SE now.
3500BC (11)
Worker SW, Warrior N

IBT - zzz
3450BC (12)
Worker Mine, Warrior N reveals floodplains and GH W
Demographics: I see Spain which makes 4 seafaring civ.

IBT - Salamanca warrior -> warrior
3400BC (13)
Warrior1 W, Warrior2 S

IBT - zzz
3350BC (14)
Warrior1 W on GH pops conscript warrior3.
Renaming warriors: Warrior1 to Pelletier, warrior2 to Blackfeet, warrior3 to Lasagna.
Note: The Iroquois village of Kanawake, near Montreal, has Pelletier as chief and Lasagna is a known criminal of that village.
Blackfeet S reveals another game. Lasagna N reveals swamps and deserts.

IBT - Salamanca grows to size 3.
3300BC (15)
Set luxury to 10% to prevent rioting.
Blackfeet S, Pelletier E, Lasagna N
Demographics: I am the only one to have grown to size 3.

IBT - Salamanca warrior -> settler
3250BC (16)
Warrior renamed to Longears fortifies in Salamanca so I can drop luxury tax to 0%, keeping research at 90% to prevent loosing gpt.
Pelletier E, Lasagna N reveals incense, Blackfeet S.

IBT - zzz
3200BC (17)
Pelletier E, Lasagna N, Blackfeet S

IBT - zzz
3150BC (18)
Pelletier NE, Worker road, Blackfeet S, Lasagna N reveals wine and two river with floodplains.

IBT - zzz
3100BC (19)
Pelletier E, Blackfeet E reveals GH, Lasagna NW
Demographics: Everyone is down to size 1 so they have built their first settler, except me.

IBT - zzz
3050BC (20)
Pelletier E reveals GH, Lasagna N reveals yet another river, Blackfeet E on GH get 25g

Score: 69

Save

Note: The game is under the "3" indicating the pop of Salamanca and another one is 3S of Salamanca.

A nice spot for the next city could be N-N-NE on the plains next to BG and Floodplains.

 

[King Alexander]

I think, we should start to road towards the game, cut the forest and irrigate. It will give us more growth, that we need so much. I wouldn't wait to have the shields go to the granary(anyway, by the time we do that, we would probably have a granary under construction).
If we're going for a tight city placement, I agree for the spot for the second city.

 

[fbouthil]

It is the first time that I look at the demographics often in the first turns of a game so what I am going to write may be obvious. If I am overanalyzing or boring, please tell me and I will try to be more brief in the future.

Current Civs:
Iroquois (Ag, Com) starts with Alpha, Pot, TW in 3t.
Ottomans (Ind, Sci) starts with BW, Mas.
Scandinavia (Mil, Sea) starts with Alpha, WC.
Carthage (Sea, Ind) starts with Alpha, Mas.
Netherlands (Ag, Sea) starts with Alpha, Pot.
France (Ind, Com) starts with Alpha, Mas.
Spain (Rel, Sea) starts with Alpha, CB.
One unknown civ.

I have determined that:

1. No known expansionist civ which explains in part why we do not have any contacts yet. We probably aren't the only ones in that situation.

2. Only Ottomans, and possibly the unknown civ do not know alpha, so if we meet them we should trade it ASAP.

3. Since so many civs know starts with alpha, the republic gambit is less likely to succeed. I am not saying we should not try it anyway.

4. No one started with TW so it may compensate for the fact that alpha will not be traded much. Actually, only Japan starts with TW so everyone except me already knew that, I guess.

5. At least 3 civs started with Mas, so I do not see why we should research this ourselves.

6. 4 civs are in the european culture group and are probably close to each other if we used the culturally linked starting positions. I am not sure this is very useful though. Maybe it means we are more likely to meet the Ottomans and Carthage (WC would become a more attractive research topic).

@rrau: I am very curious as to who is the unknown civ. Could you keep an eye on demographics until we know who it is, please?

@King Alexander: I agree with irrigating the game. We produce 5s per turn. The worker needs 1t to finish the road. If we want to cut the forest as fast as possible while making a road, the worker would do move, road (3), move to game, cut (4), road(3), irr (4), irr (4) which would mean at least 10t before the forest is cut so we should have 35s (+10) already towards building the granary. If we want to irrigate the game as fast as possible, it would be move, road (3), irr(4), move to game, cut (4), irr(4), road (3), 14t before the forest is cut, 55s on the granary when the forest is cut. If we go with the second option, we may have to wait a few turns before cutting the forest and the +10s would go to the next settler.

Edit: Actually, civs are Celts instead of Netherlands and the unknown civ is the Chinese. So, 3 civs did not start with alpha and 4 civs start with Mas.

 

[rrau]

got it!!!!

 

[rrau]

today is my day off, so rapid turn around

turn 0 (3050bc) preflight - OK

viewing space race (f10) shows other civs are: ottomans, vikings(scandanavia), carthaginians, celts, french, spanish and chinese

ibt

turn 1 (3000bc)

worker south
Pelletier N
Lasagne N
Blackfeet sw

ibt

Salamanca settler => granary

turn 2 (2950bc)

adjust sci slider to 50 % for wheel in 1 (breaking even now - was at -2gpt before adjusting slider after settler born)
Rename worker to worker Alex (maybe follow abc to decrease confusion in the future). Worker Alex roads
settler NE
Pelletier pops hut and gets maps with orange borders and sees an orange settler/spear pair - can almost, but not quite trade, alphabet and gold for 2 of his 3 techs, will wait 1 turn to learn wheel and see what we can get
Lasagna N
Blackfeet s

ibt

learn wheel, start writing at min (hopefully be able to trade for most other 1st tier techs next turn)

turn 3 (2900bc)

darn, only horse on map is next to the ottoman settler/spear pair - will probably settle it this turn
Pelletier N
Blackfeet south
Lasagna n (sees tiny corner of light pink border and a cow)
settler n

trade ottomans alphabet, pottery, wheel, 23g for Bronze working, Masonry, WC

keep sci slider at 10% as all techs take 50 turns to research regardless of where slider is at (except CB which I don't want to research) Will stay at writing at minimum as AI's ususally go for IW, and no ivory nearby so no need for early maths and SoZ

ibt

Otto's settled the only known horse source

turn 4 (2850bc)

Pelletier N
Blackfeet s
Lasagna N and meets china (we're up alpha, pottery, wheel) Trade Pottery for 35 g
settler N (will settle next turn)

ibt

turn 5 (2800bc)

settle Niagra Falls => warrior
worker Alex to game
Blackfeet SW
Pelletier N
Lasanga w

ibt

turn 6 (2750bc)

Ottos have learned CB - for trade they want all our gold and all our gpt (no thanks). They have a warrior heading toward china, maybe they will trade it to them and we can trade it for one of the techs china lacks but Ottos already know

worker Alex starts chopping game
Blackfeet W
Pelletier N
Lasagna W (sees saltwater in the distance, will turn around next turn)

ibt

turn 7 (2710bc)

Blackfeet W - sees a hut
Pelletier N (going along a ridge of mountains 1 wide)
Lasagna s to reveal more of the fog before heading east
Buy a worker from Ottomans for 52g and 3gpt - sent to chop a spice

ibt

turn 8 (2670bc)

Ottoman worker starts chop (forgot to rename him and can't do it until chop is done).
Pelletier N again, sees dark green borders
Lasagna E
Blackfeet Nw

ibt

turn 9 (2630bc)

blackfeet pops hut for CB (we've had great luck with huts so far)
Pelletier N against celt borders, meet celts
trade celts Masonry and Wheel for Mysticism, worker, and 35g
Lasagna E
trade Ottomans Mysticism for 91g (they like religious path and of our contacts are the only ones to know alphabet so maybe can get them to go that route instead of writing => philosophy)

Rename celt worker to worker Brad and send him to join the other foreign worker

ibt

game chop completes
Niagra Falls warrior => worker

Turn 10 (2590bc)

Blackfeet south
Lasagna E
Pelletier E
worker alex starts road on game

worker Brad still has to move - need to play with MM of salamanca to see best task for him - chop or start roading


Thoughts:

after granary, need another warrior to go explore the Jungle to E of Salamanca while waiting for growth to get population for settler factory

I've pretty much bankrupted the civs we have contact with and are even in tech with Otto's and lead celts by 1 and china by 3 (I think). I've also bought 2 foreign workers and have hopefully slowed their starts

we need more exploration, especially of FOW still near capital to look for horses or we will have to go to war to get them

I've made a screen shot with dots for possible city sites, - the one along the river towards ottos is to get us a road towards them if we have to go to war for the horses. Also, would settle one on the incense even though it will not be a productive city until the swamps are cleared

The Save

 

[King Alexander]

Got it.

1st priority site: the blue dot towards Edrine(and a river site), and after that, settle the insense.
Ok, I'll make another warrior to explore south, south-east.

 

[fbouthil]

Nice turn rrau, especially trades!

I never thought about looking at the space race before, heu, well, there is a space race. Nice trick.

I have mistaken netherlands for celts and will edit my posts accordingly.

Looking at the save, I realize that the Celts do not have a second city even if they built a settler. rrau was able to trade slaves with both Ottomans and Celts who started very close to each other. It is clear that Ottomans and Celts are at war with each other. Ottomans probably destroyed the Celts city or capture the settler and workers went into the capital when enemy units approach them.

 

[viper275]

Looks good so far, nice set of turns everyone! I was wondering if we could settle next to that wheat near Edrine, right next to the horses. There is a chance that the borders could take the square that has the horses on it. The spot is pretty good even besides that, lots of BG, a river, and wheat. This would probably be after the first river site NW of Edrine.

 

[King Alexander]

@Viper275: we have 24h limit to play or 48? I thought you accidentally written the "24h".
Any suggestions before I take my turns, would be welcome.

 

[fbouthil]

The only suggestion I have right now is to send a worker or two toward Niagara Falls (nice name for city on a river ) once they are finished working their current tiles because Niagara Falls need them more than Salamanca. I like the city placement suggestions made by rrau, but would try to place the city on the way to the Ottomans on the other side of the river as we would need to build a road on one less tile to have a path that do not cross the river.

 

[King Alexander]

I'll play soon.

 

[viper275]

@Viper275: we have 24h limit to play or 48? I thought you accidentally written the "24h".
Any suggestions before I take my turns, would be welcome.

48 is fine with me.
@fbouthil: That's an interesting thought of thinking the celts and the ottomans are at war, you could tell at the foreign advisor screen.
EDIT: It turns out that the Celts and the Ottomans don't have contact with each other, but good thinking.

 

[King Alexander]

>>SAVE<<

Pre-turn
I order both the Ottoman and Brad workers, to road the spices(1 worker was ordered to cut the forest, which will take many turns with a foreing worker).

I also take the citizen working the forest in NF, and put him on the BG: the city will grow in 2(1 turn faster), and the worker in production needs the same turns as before.

2550BC (1)
Nothing.

2510BC (2)
Niagara Falls grows to pop2(the second citizen goes to work the Grassland- faster growth).
Nothing new from the other civs.

2470BC (3)
Worker Alex completes the road to the game, goes 1 tile back to irrigate, so we can “drag” the water to the game later.
I order the citizen working the spices tile in Salamanca, to work the game: we’ll still get the granary next turn, and the city will grow in 3 turns, instead of 6.
Unfortunately, warrior Lasagna popped out barb-warriors from a goody hut(the RNG gods were sleeping!), and Blackfeet gave received maps from another goody hut.

IBT
Lasagna survives the attack of 1 barb-warrior and promotes to regular(1hp lost), 1 more goes 1 tile away(maybe he’s afraid!), and the last barb-warrior doesn’t attack, because he must cross the river to attack(the AI is not so stupid, after all).

2430BC (4)
Salamanca completes the granary, starts a warrior.

2390BC (5)
NF completes the worker(which goes to road/mine the BG), starts barracks.
Nothing new to trade/buy from our enemies.

2350BC (6)
Ottoman and Brad workers, complete the road to the spices, our first luxury, and cross the river to connect NF, also.

2310BC (7)
Alex finishes irrigating, goes to irrigate the game.
Salamanca completes the warrior, starts a settler.

2270BC (8)
Keep exploring.
The Ottomans learned Horseback Riding, but they won’t trade.

2230BC (9)
Worker in NF finishes roading the BG, starts mining. NF grows to pop2, second citizen goes to work the grassland.
Oh, I increased the lux to 10%: Salamanca has pop5, grows in 3, and completes the settler in 5.
Good news: our warrior finds 2 wines, south of Salamanca!!!

The Ottomans will trade HR for 210g(all our gold) + 8gpt, but I won’t trade; later on it’ll be much cheaper, and besides, no one has money or other techs to sell it.

2190BC (10)
Blackfeet survives a barb-warrior attack without losing any hp.
Oh, the wines near Salamanca, are 3!!!
The Celts haven’t yet made a second city, and they’re don’t know Alphabet yet.

The Ottomans haven’t made a third city, they’re the only civ with money(33g!) and they still want too much for HB.

The Chinese are down to Alphabet and CB, and they have a worker for sale: I’ll leave this option open, as it was my last turn, so the team can decide what to do:
They want 103g for their worker(after HARD negotiations!), or Alphabet, or CB.
I wouldn’t give them 103g to fund their research, but without the worker they can’t improve their land. So, maybe we can give them a tech, or pass the opportunity? I usually need around 30g to buy a worker in other games, that’s why I hesitate.

P.S.: I have trouble uploading screenshots, thank you for your understanding.

 

[King Alexander]

1 barb warrior may be coming for NF in a few turns(last time I had our warrior fortified in a mountain to heal, the last time I saw the barb-warrior), the Military advisor says that there are barbs nearby.

We can order our warrior near the wines to go back to escort our settler, or we can make a new warrrior, but, maybe we can make a second worker in Salamanca, so we can improve the land faster.

 

[rrau]

For conquests, that is a good price for a worker - I think average price is around 109. I'd recommend giving them CB for the worker.

@viper - how do you tell if AI's have contact, I thought the foreign advisor screen just shows rop, treaties, and trades and not whether they have contact. If there's a trick/hint, I would like to learn it

 

[viper275]

If there is no line between the AIs then they don't have contact with each other because peace is blue and red is war, and if civs have contact with each other they have to be either at war or peace.

Got it.

 

[fbouthil]

If there is no line between the AIs then they don't have contact with each other because peace is blue and red is war, and if civs have contact with each other they have to be either at war or peace.

What you are saying is true, but only after you have an embassy with a civ. After an embassy is established, you can see the relations between that civ and the other civ.

 

[viper275]

What you are saying is true, but only after you have an embassy with a civ. After an embassy is established, you can see the relations between that civ and the other civ.

That's interesting, I didn't know that.

 

[King Alexander]

Ok, thanks for the explanation, rrau.
I have played Vanilla most of the time, and have only 1 game that I finished in Qonquests: I didn't buy Qonquests until recently. I have heard and experienced some differences, but it's good to learn something new every day!

 

[viper275]

I have noticed many differences between vanilla civ and conquests, too. My turns:

Turn 1-2150 BC
Worker finishes irrigation, moves to Grassland.
Turn 2-2110 BC
Worker begins irrigation.
Turn 3-2070 BC
Move science up to 90% to get Writing soon (maybe we could get Philosophy and move on to The Republic?) The Ottomans get Horseback Riding but won't trade for it. We'll have to keep an eye on it.
Turn 4-2030 BC
Pop a hut and get a map.
Turn 5-1990 BC
Workers move to forest.
Turn 6-1950 BC
Workers road forest. This is beginning a road to my next city.
Turn 7-1910 BC
Explored, and that's about it.
Turn 8-1870 BC
Not much, just explored. Ottomans still don't want to trade.
Turn 9-1830 BC
Grand River founded. It's near a river and Edrine, it has Tobacco in its borders.
Turn 10-1790 BC
Roads to Grand River are continued.
Screenshot:

Save: