VQ02 - Predetermined City Placement
- Thread starter Maquis
- Start date
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
As in VQ03, there is just no way I can play until the weekend, and even that looking bleak. I tried everything I could, but missing bills and tax deadlines (don't ask) is just catching up with me...
Please skip
It really sucks too because I want to play.
Please skip
It really sucks too because I want to play.
Maquis
King
Ok, with the skip:
player 1: Maquis --- just played
player 2: bobrath --- UP
player 3: Greyfox ---on deck
player 4: eektor ---
player 5: oldbustedjorn --- SKIP
player 1: Maquis --- just played
player 2: bobrath --- UP
player 3: Greyfox ---on deck
player 4: eektor ---
player 5: oldbustedjorn --- SKIP
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I'm UP???? 
Okay, whatever you say, skipper!
-
Okay, whatever you say, skipper!
-
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Culture, Culture, Culture ...
Slowly, but surely, we are building up our culture ....
As you see from the Cuktural Advisor's report, almost every turn we have something related to culture finishes ...
To the point that Antium revolted ...
Not once, but twice ...
After the 2nd revolt, Antium should flip ...
The Romans eagerly awaits Antium to rejoin the Rome Empire ...
....
....
oh, yeah, if you are paying attention, you might have noticed something happening between the two revolts ... (hint: see saladin in the score list ...
) ...
A short Interlude From the Military Advisor
Yes, we are at WAR! 
...
don't worry, its entirely phony ....
Not even a nail was exchanged in the 18 years that we are at war ...
Now Back to Culture ...
This is our cultural situation:
Religion-wise:
Yes, 1 more Jewish city to go ...
After Turns Notes
- By the way, Vicky demanded 180 gold ...
, no choice, had to keep her happy ... I view it as finicial funding to Antium's Underground Dissident Movement ... :misdief:
- Remember to build temple first above all else, that's why there is a queue Cumae, I temporarily suspended the building of Bank for Temple. Except the 3 cultural cities of-course. They should build Cathedral buildings first above all else.
- Oh, form the screenshot, you should know that Corporation is in, started Steam Power, we are 1 hop away from AssLine!
- Autolog: if you are interested.
Finally, of-course, the save (1840). (er ... the roster is entirely messed up, guess its eektor's turn if you can play tonight, else bobrath should be back on Friday)
-
Slowly, but surely, we are building up our culture ....
As you see from the Cuktural Advisor's report, almost every turn we have something related to culture finishes ...
Cultural Advisor said:
To the point that Antium revolted ...
Not once, but twice ...
After the 2nd revolt, Antium should flip ...
The Romans eagerly awaits Antium to rejoin the Rome Empire ...
....
....
oh, yeah, if you are paying attention, you might have noticed something happening between the two revolts ... (hint: see saladin in the score list ...
) ...A short Interlude From the Military Advisor
Yes, we are at WAR!
...don't worry, its entirely phony ....
Not even a nail was exchanged in the 18 years that we are at war ...Now Back to Culture ...
This is our cultural situation:
Religion-wise:
Yes, 1 more Jewish city to go ...
After Turns Notes
- By the way, Vicky demanded 180 gold ...
, no choice, had to keep her happy ... I view it as finicial funding to Antium's Underground Dissident Movement ... :misdief:- Remember to build temple first above all else, that's why there is a queue Cumae, I temporarily suspended the building of Bank for Temple. Except the 3 cultural cities of-course. They should build Cathedral buildings first above all else.
- Oh, form the screenshot, you should know that Corporation is in, started Steam Power, we are 1 hop away from AssLine!
- Autolog: if you are interested.
Spoiler :
Finally, of-course, the save (1840). (er ... the roster is entirely messed up, guess its eektor's turn if you can play tonight, else bobrath should be back on Friday)
-
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I am not too sure if we can aford to get AssemLine ... we have only 155 turns left (I think) , and our cultural cities are only producing less than 100 
... we have to hurry our cathedral buildings ...
-
... we have to hurry our cathedral buildings ... -
Maquis
King
Yeah, looks like we are getting dangeriously close to needeing to crank up culture....
Should we revolt (back) into Slavery to be able to rush the cathedrals??? Or would the anrchy time hurt too much?
Should we revolt (back) into Slavery to be able to rush the cathedrals??? Or would the anrchy time hurt too much?
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
Getting revenge for Antium would be nice... 
Maquis
King
I suppose at this point, Antium would have 0 culture for us again...
Also, we had the Heroic Epic there... would it still be ther for us if it revlts back?? Or did it get destroyed when Vicky captured it?
Also, we had the Heroic Epic there... would it still be ther for us if it revlts back?? Or did it get destroyed when Vicky captured it?
Maquis
King
I think it's best to take a look at where culture is at... how much each city has, and how much CPT they'll get with the slider turned up.
We want to watch that we can get to 50k...
We want to watch that we can get to 50k...
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Yes, and switching to slavery might be a good idea.
I am in non-MS OS now, so I can only rely on my scxreenshot for info. Let's look at Pisae, the slowest city.
It has
= 37, = 84. Assuming it has all cathedral builings, at best, it will produce 37 * 80% (assuming we can't poush culture beyond 80%) + 100% (free speech) + 200% (4 cathedrals) = 116 + 84 (current culture, assuming not affected by he 4 cathedrals) = 200. It will still require 250 turns to reach legendary
Even adding possibly the culture produced by converting
into , its 22 * 50% + 100% + 200% = 44, we still need 204 turns
I think you need to do the cultural flip NOW, eektor!
I am in non-MS OS now, so I can only rely on my scxreenshot for info. Let's look at Pisae, the slowest city.
It has
= 37, = 84. Assuming it has all cathedral builings, at best, it will produce 37 * 80% (assuming we can't poush culture beyond 80%) + 100% (free speech) + 200% (4 cathedrals) = 116 + 84 (current culture, assuming not affected by he 4 cathedrals) = 200. It will still require 250 turns to reach legendary Even adding possibly the culture produced by converting
into , its 22 * 50% + 100% + 200% = 44, we still need 204 turns I think you need to do the cultural flip NOW, eektor!
I played my turns going to work on the writeup and then post it. I was a little worried I must say because I thought we should do the culture flip now but I thought you guys wanted to keep going for assembly line. I decided to do the culture flip and I provided my reasons for doing so. Thankfully at least GreyFox agreed with me.
Alright this turnset report isn’t going to be very pretty. Not many pictures either but a lot of math.
My goals were to see if we should go all culture, build temples in every city, cathedrals in the culture cities, and military in the others.
Preturn: 1840 AD
Noticed that Antium is in revolt. That’s great maybe it might come around to us before the game is over.
Ok, in order to decide whether to go all culture or not I made some assumptions because I wasn’t too sure. They are:
1. There are 155 turns left.
2. A city needs 50,000 culture to become legendary
3. A great artist would give us 4,000 cutlure in one city.
Ok, now to check and see what our cities are like at 80% culture and 20% gold.
City Total Culture Culture/Turn Turns til Legendary Additional Turns
Rome 6199 237 184 29
Neapolis 6281 255 171 16
Pisae 7194* 171 250 95
*Includes Great Artist
So, I decided to go 80% culture.
Added an artist in Rome and Pisae. Rome now has 246 culture/turn and Pisae has 183 culture/turn.
Turn 4: 1848 AD
Sent a missionary to Circei and it failed.
I started making two more missionaries just in case it failed again.
Turn 5: 1850 AD
Reevaluation of culture cities at 150 turns left.
City Total Culture Culture/Turn Turns til Legendary Additional Turns
Rome 7453 258 164 14
Neapolis 7572 266 159 9
Pisae 8169* 213 196 46
*Includes Great Artist
Looking a little better but still needs more work.
Turn 6: 1852 AD
Great Scientist born in Rome. There was a 53% chance for an artist, 23% for scientist, and 23% for an engineer. They just happened to give us a scientist. Well I’m saving the scientist so maybe when we get another great leader and its not an artist we can trigger a golden age to help us get more culture.
Judaism spread to Ravenna. We have our 9 jewish cities now.
Turn 10: 1860 AD
Another Reevaluation of culture cities at 145 turns left.
City Total Culture Culture/Turn Turns til Legendary Additional Turns
Rome 8776 258 159 14
Neapolis 8898 266 154 9
Pisae 9234* 213 191 46
*Includes Great Artist
View attachment 119123
Well nothing changed in the last 5 turns. Next turn Pisae will finish Confucious Academy so that city should do well next turn.
After turn comments:
I didn’t do a civics change, but if we want to go through an anarchy period we should try to go to free market for the extra trade route.
Ok here is a nice picture of Antium. Hopefully it will revolt back to us.
View attachment 119122
Edit: Aww crap the tab doesn't work
My goals were to see if we should go all culture, build temples in every city, cathedrals in the culture cities, and military in the others.
Preturn: 1840 AD
Noticed that Antium is in revolt. That’s great maybe it might come around to us before the game is over.
Ok, in order to decide whether to go all culture or not I made some assumptions because I wasn’t too sure. They are:
1. There are 155 turns left.
2. A city needs 50,000 culture to become legendary
3. A great artist would give us 4,000 cutlure in one city.
Ok, now to check and see what our cities are like at 80% culture and 20% gold.
City Total Culture Culture/Turn Turns til Legendary Additional Turns
Rome 6199 237 184 29
Neapolis 6281 255 171 16
Pisae 7194* 171 250 95
*Includes Great Artist
So, I decided to go 80% culture.
Added an artist in Rome and Pisae. Rome now has 246 culture/turn and Pisae has 183 culture/turn.
Turn 4: 1848 AD
Sent a missionary to Circei and it failed.
I started making two more missionaries just in case it failed again.
Turn 5: 1850 AD
Reevaluation of culture cities at 150 turns left.
City Total Culture Culture/Turn Turns til Legendary Additional Turns
Rome 7453 258 164 14
Neapolis 7572 266 159 9
Pisae 8169* 213 196 46
*Includes Great Artist
Looking a little better but still needs more work.
Turn 6: 1852 AD
Great Scientist born in Rome. There was a 53% chance for an artist, 23% for scientist, and 23% for an engineer. They just happened to give us a scientist. Well I’m saving the scientist so maybe when we get another great leader and its not an artist we can trigger a golden age to help us get more culture.
Judaism spread to Ravenna. We have our 9 jewish cities now.
Turn 10: 1860 AD
Another Reevaluation of culture cities at 145 turns left.
City Total Culture Culture/Turn Turns til Legendary Additional Turns
Rome 8776 258 159 14
Neapolis 8898 266 154 9
Pisae 9234* 213 191 46
*Includes Great Artist
View attachment 119123
Well nothing changed in the last 5 turns. Next turn Pisae will finish Confucious Academy so that city should do well next turn.
After turn comments:
I didn’t do a civics change, but if we want to go through an anarchy period we should try to go to free market for the extra trade route.
Ok here is a nice picture of Antium. Hopefully it will revolt back to us.
View attachment 119122
Spoiler :
Edit: Aww crap the tab doesn't work
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Doing great eektor, as far as it ispossible. We definitely need to whip those temples and cathedrals. So, next player please revolt to slavery.
The Great Scientist should be used for Academy is Pisae. It adds +4 culture. A golden age does not helps a cultural victory. We need our slowest city to gain culture fast!
@bob: The order Maquis last posted was:
So the next player should be ... hmmm ....!!!
Err .. something is wrong ... I think I assumed I was UP wrongly ... Sorry guys! I thought I read it as
I am really sorry ... But let's assume its a 4-way swap, so the order would be:
The Great Scientist should be used for Academy is Pisae. It adds +4 culture. A golden age does not helps a cultural victory. We need our slowest city to gain culture fast!
@bob: The order Maquis last posted was:
Maquis said:
So the next player should be ... hmmm ....
!!!Err .. something is wrong ... I think I assumed I was UP wrongly ...
Sorry guys! I thought I read it as GreyFox's Old CrazyEye Read It As said:
I am really sorry ... But let's assume its a 4-way swap, so the order would be:
Suggested Order said:
GreyFox
Make it so ...
As a punishment for my 
on messing up the order, I set myself to do some analysis of our situation:
Let's look at Rome first, shall we?
It has yet to build the Jewish and Buddhist cathedrals (8 more turns and 7 more turns respectively). Its a mistake to build the Jewish cathedral (which is speed up by marble) first, because we want to build the fastest available building so that it can contribute to the culture earlier. But it does not matter, since Rome is not the slowest city.
So, its 15 more turns before we have all 4 cathedrals in Rome.
Its also stagnant at health limit, so, we can play around with artist specialist (micromanaging the city to have artists and starve for some turns, and grow on the other turns) so that the total effect is still stagnant overall, but some turns it is producing 4 + 300% = 16 cultures.
Now, let's see Neopolis:
Very good, It is 3 more turns before getting all 4 cathedrals.
However, it is starving without artists.
Finally, let's check Pisae:
Yikes, its the slowest, with two more 15 turns cathedral buildings to build, and I more turn to the Conf Academy.
Its also starving with one artist, so we need to micromanage it (turning on and off the artist) to avoid starvation on the whole.
The Great scientist's academy is definitely useful here, with a +350% bost on the +4 culure, giving a total of 18 cpt.
Oh, by the way, I checked. I am wrong to say there is 155 turns left previously, and eektor's calculations is based on that mistake. ther eis actually 160 more turns as of 1860AD. But restricting ourselves some turns to beat the AI's space race is ours necessary, so I would treat as if there is 140 turns left (assuming AI would launch at 2030, a bit of an under estimate, really).
Also, we are reaching health limits ... perhaps we can should hook up that extra cow near Antium.
----
Now, lets look at some maths and see if we have a chance to win at 2030AD.
Current situation (1860AD):
1 turn later (1862AD):
The cathedral will be built, boosting culture at Pisae.
3 turns later (1866AD):
Neopolis completes its cathedral buildings.
8 turns later (1876AD):
Rome completes one more cathedral.
The analysis will go on, taking into account cathedrals being built, and finally at 31 turns later (not too sure the date, possibly 1922AD):
All cathedrals are built. Notice that the slowest city Pisae is now catching up quite nicely, with 108 more turns to reach legendary. Adding the 31 turns to built the cathedrals, we will win at 139 turns later, assuming there is no war.
Note that this does not take into account population and possibly hamlet/village/town growth at each city. Also, I assume there is no slavery. So this is definitely doable.
We could in fact shave some more turns off Pisae, considering it has not built the univeristy (10 turns to built, +3 raw culture). It is also possible for Pisae to further built the Forbident Palace, adding another +4 raw culture. This may cause Pisae overtakes Neopolis, so, Neopolis may want to switch its hammers to produce 0.5*(20 raw hammers) + 300% culture for some turns to ensure that we reach legendary status at the same time.
Guys, this is possible, as long as we avoid WAR at all cost.
-
on messing up the order, I set myself to do some analysis of our situation:Let's look at Rome first, shall we?
It has yet to build the Jewish and Buddhist cathedrals (8 more turns and 7 more turns respectively). Its a mistake to build the Jewish cathedral (which is speed up by marble) first, because we want to build the fastest available building so that it can contribute to the culture earlier. But it does not matter, since Rome is not the slowest city.
So, its 15 more turns before we have all 4 cathedrals in Rome.
Its also stagnant at health limit, so, we can play around with artist specialist (micromanaging the city to have artists and starve for some turns, and grow on the other turns) so that the total effect is still stagnant overall, but some turns it is producing 4 + 300% = 16 cultures.
Now, let's see Neopolis:
Very good, It is 3 more turns before getting all 4 cathedrals.
However, it is starving without artists.
Finally, let's check Pisae:
Yikes, its the slowest, with two more 15 turns cathedral buildings to build, and I more turn to the Conf Academy.
Its also starving with one artist, so we need to micromanage it (turning on and off the artist) to avoid starvation on the whole.
The Great scientist's academy is definitely useful here, with a +350% bost on the +4 culure, giving a total of 18 cpt.
Oh, by the way, I checked. I am wrong to say there is 155 turns left previously, and eektor's calculations is based on that mistake. ther eis actually 160 more turns as of 1860AD. But restricting ourselves some turns to beat the AI's space race is ours necessary, so I would treat as if there is 140 turns left (assuming AI would launch at 2030, a bit of an under estimate, really).
Also, we are reaching health limits ... perhaps we can should hook up that extra cow near Antium.
----
Now, lets look at some maths and see if we have a chance to win at 2030AD.
Current situation (1860AD):
1 turn later (1862AD):
The cathedral will be built, boosting culture at Pisae.
3 turns later (1866AD):
Neopolis completes its cathedral buildings.
8 turns later (1876AD):
Rome completes one more cathedral.
The analysis will go on, taking into account cathedrals being built, and finally at 31 turns later (not too sure the date, possibly 1922AD):
All cathedrals are built. Notice that the slowest city Pisae is now catching up quite nicely, with 108 more turns to reach legendary. Adding the 31 turns to built the cathedrals, we will win at 139 turns later, assuming there is no war.
Note that this does not take into account population and possibly hamlet/village/town growth at each city. Also, I assume there is no slavery. So this is definitely doable.
We could in fact shave some more turns off Pisae, considering it has not built the univeristy (10 turns to built, +3 raw culture). It is also possible for Pisae to further built the Forbident Palace, adding another +4 raw culture. This may cause Pisae overtakes Neopolis, so, Neopolis may want to switch its hammers to produce 0.5*(20 raw hammers) + 300% culture for some turns to ensure that we reach legendary status at the same time.
Guys, this is possible, as long as we avoid WAR at all cost.
-
Maquis
King
Ok, looks like we still have a chance at this.
Greyfox is right, we have to avoid war at all costs. Also we have to make sure that the AI does not lauch a ship. I think this may be a harder task. We have to watch Gahndi and Mansa both! If they start, I have no idea if we can bribe them into a war with each other... or anyone at this point.
And yes, the roster got all screwed up. Looking at who actually played, I have re-orged so this is the roster now:
player 1: Maquis --- in the hole - waiting to see if oldbustedjorn can play
player 2: Greyfox ---
player 3: eektor --- just played
player 4: bobrath --- UP
player 5: oldbustedjorn --- ON DECK (if stil able to play)
Let just try to stick with this if possible for the rest of the game.
Greyfox is right, we have to avoid war at all costs. Also we have to make sure that the AI does not lauch a ship. I think this may be a harder task. We have to watch Gahndi and Mansa both! If they start, I have no idea if we can bribe them into a war with each other... or anyone at this point.
And yes, the roster got all screwed up. Looking at who actually played, I have re-orged so this is the roster now:
player 1: Maquis --- in the hole - waiting to see if oldbustedjorn can play
player 2: Greyfox ---
player 3: eektor --- just played
player 4: bobrath --- UP
player 5: oldbustedjorn --- ON DECK (if stil able to play)
Let just try to stick with this if possible for the rest of the game.
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
This is one twisted page of posts between the culture analysis and the messed up roster.I should be able to play Saturday or Sunday after....um... bobrath?
