VQ02 - Predetermined City Placement

[GreyFox]

Abt cultural win, if a third religion gets spread to us, we have a chance. Don't worry abt us not having any city with more than a thousand . Going cultural win is only abt religion and commerce. Period.

The thing abt cultural win is to ensure you choose 3 cities with the highest possible commerce when you switch to 100% , and build all monasteries buildings in these cities. Each monastery gives a +50% boost to cultural output, so say if we have 3 regious monastery, that is +150% . SO suppose the highest commerce producing city gives 100 raw commerce, when we flip the culture clider up to 100%, that is going to be like 250 cultural point per turn. Wait 200 turns and you have your lengendary city, not counting the culture given by artists, temples, libraries, theatres, etc.

I say we can wait another 100 years before making the decision whether to go this path (to see if we can get a 3rd and hopefully a forth religion), meanwhile, its always useful to hammer freddie

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[oldbustedjorn]

we had agreed the second 4 was our logical

Ah what a lovely dotmap - wonder who made it

Right, but we aren't even done the third tier correct? The city west of pisae that Maquis founded is part of the third tier, but we'd need one directly north (not possibly), directly south (too close to Ghandi), and directly east (too close to freddie). My point was that we need two different wars to finish tier #3

 

[oldbustedjorn]

I say we can wait another 100 years

Well, I think culture victory is the way to go. Even if we destroyed freddie and saladin, we wouldn't be anywhere near domination because of our variant. Conquest will be too difficult because by the time we get to Washington (roosevelt?), we will be way far behind in tech.

Diplo is out. Time is cheesy (but better than losing I think). Space is very risky without grassland cottages and with washington's tech lead.

I say culture - beside, it would give most of us experience that we don't have.

 

[Maquis]

If we want to go cultural, that is fine with me. To do this, I think we need to decide NOW which 3 cities will be our culture producers. In those 3 cities we want to build all the cultural buildings, and we still need to get more religion(s) spread to our lands.

Here's a couple of thoughts off the top of my head (I can't look at the save)

I think right now Antium is one of our biggest culture producers (mainly from the Heroic Epic) Also, we can build the National Epic somewhere, that city can be a GP farm. Neoplis will complete a Confusian Academy soon. We have the Great Artist which will give CPT to whichever city we want to mege him to.

The buildings we want to have in the culture cities:
All religious buildings for all religions in the city (temple +1, monistary +2, cathedral +50%)
Theater +3
Library +2, University +2
Academy +4 (if we get a scientist)
Broadcast Tower (+50%) or Eiffel Tower if possible
Plus Market/gocer/bank for the increased commerce?

Of course, we will want to switch to Free Speach ASAP (need Liberalism)

 

[oldbustedjorn]

I'm cool with cultural, and I was thinking that even with our early wars, our neighbors DON'T include Napolean, Toku, or Montezuma. We should be able to at least be able to stay at peace.

So are we looking at:

- Rome
- Antium
- Neapolis

I'm guessing you build only culture or necessary building in these cities and put them on culture the rest of the time?

 

[Maquis]

Also, Globe Theatre should go in one of the cities (+6)
Hermitage (+100%) in another, obviously the one that will need the most help.

Then there are the various wonders (Broadway, Hollywood, Rock'nRoll) that all add 50%. Not sure if we can get any late game Wonders though, since we may be turning off research.

 

[ChrTh]

lurker's comment:
Typically in cultural wins you'll turn off research before the late game culture wonders. Also, you may be better off (determining on what's built where) using one of your "big three" as a Great Person factory (obviously you'll want Artists) rather than a Culture factory (of course it can be both if it works out that way). It's almost impossible to get a cultural win without a good number of Great Artists.


EDIT: Also, don't use the Great Artists until the end of the game. You may gain more culture over the long run by joining them to the city, but you'll want all three cities to hit legendary status the same turn (the AI will attack you otherwise) and GAs are the best way to ensure that.

 

[bobrath]

EDIT: Also, don't use the Great Artists until the end of the game. You may gain more culture over the long run by joining them to the city, but you'll want all three cities to hit legendary status the same turn (the AI will attack you otherwise) and GAs are the best way to ensure that.

I didn't realize the AIs would turn aggresive on legendary status. Do they go that route after your first or second city hits?

And btw, I'm going to delay playing my turns until much later tonight or even tomorrow night to make sure we're all in line with the plan. Which cities will be the big three, which will go GP farming, which techs we need/want. All that good stuff!

 

[Maquis]

Which cities will be the big three, which will go GP farming, which techs we need/want.

I'll take a peek at the save when I get home... but I think OBJ has it right:

- Rome
- Antium
- Neapolis

I think one of our short-term goals should be to get hindu spread to some more cities (the big 3 ASAP). We also should try to get OB with someone else that has another religion (Gandi perhaps, I think he is Buddist?) I think more religions the better, right?

 

[bobrath]

Some information for those not looking at save:

Current cities ranked by gpt:

and our current empire:

 

[GreyFox]

Rome is the obvious choice, Not too sure abt the othe rtwo though. As I keep stressing, this early, its the potential commerce that counts, not the culture. I need to look at the save to determine which city has the most potential in terms of commerce.

ChrTh is right about AI's agression. I did mentioned something about producing militray like mad for the "non-core" city, right? In the other SG, we endured a two-sided war (washington tech leader from the west and toku from the east) for 30 over turns. And that's only Noble.

Meanwhile get those temples cranking ... We may want the civic that gives us unlimited artist ... what is it? Caste?

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[Maquis]

Yes, caste system is the civic that gives unlimited artists.

Also, I really don't know if there is a big difference in our cities and their commerce potential. Almost all our tiles are plains anyways

 

[eektor]

We shouldn't look at just the commerce. When we go 100% culture it will be the commerce plus the culture we have now. So besides Rome and Neapolis, Antium is the 3rd best taking that into account. Well, that's my theory and since I haven't won a culture victory yet, its all speculation, but it sounds good.

 

[GreyFox]

eektor, you are right, we should look at the highest commerce+culture count ... So I agree with Rome, Neopolis and Antium. I looked at the save, and I agree they all look the same

I don't think banks contribute. I think they only multiply gold, not commerce. Not too sure though, got to check it out.

We need to build the following buildings in the core cities in order of highest to lowest priotiy:
(1) buildings that multiply culture (eg Cathedral, Conf Academy, Hindu Mandir, Synagogue, Pagoda, etc)
(2) buildings that multiply commerce (not gold ... is there any?)
(3) buildings that add culture (eg temples, monastries, library, univeristies, theatre)
(4) buildings that add commerce (any? except cottages)


Currently we have hinduism in Arretium, let's start spreading it within our civ by building a monastry. We have 6 Confused cities, need 3 more.

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[GreyFox]

I tested by loading up a save for my previous SG, and added bank and Groccer to the cultural city at 100% culture using the world builder. It does not change the culture output per turn.

So, banks and groccer (and I suspect market too) doesn't contribute to culture. They only multiply the gold.

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[oldbustedjorn]

Twas in the mood to post the roster...

Roster:

player 1: Maquis
player 2: bobrath - Up
player 3: Greyfox - On Deck
player 4: eektor
player 5: oldbustedjorn

 

[bobrath]

I'll play tonight, just wanted to hear thoughts so I can get us heading in the right direction.

I can switch up to hind right away and that will improve our relations (and allow missionaries to be built in any city due to OR), but we'll slow down on building a bit until the faith is spread. I think this will result in more culture sooner (as compared to sticking with conf and slowing spreading hind from one city). Thoughts?

 

[oldbustedjorn]

but we'll slow down on building a bit

I think thats the right direction because last I remember, there wasn't that much worth building. At least nothing too critical. We can spread hindu in a matter of a turnset or two, so we'll get that +25% back pretty quick I'm sure. Would be nice if we could get a third religion somehow, so make sure we have road connection to each civ...

Oh wait, do all our cities have religions already? If so, we may want to start a war with freddie, raze a couple of cities, start a new east city and hope it gets a new religion, if thats even possible.

 

[Maquis]

Oh wait, do all our cities have religions already?

Very good point! We can't get a new religion unless it spreads to a city that has none. That's how we got Hinuism, Arrietuim was not confused, and it spread from Freddy.

I believe that the newest city to the west (Setia) does not have a religion yet. It would be worth trying to connect to Gandi's roads and see if it buddism spreads there. If Gandi has built his shrine, we should have a good chance of it getting spread.

Otherwise, OBJ's idea would be good too... but it would almost make more sense to raze one of Gandi's cities to the south and build there, giving us a better shot at buddism. Not sure if taking on Gandi is a good idea though...

 

[oldbustedjorn]

We would have to strike very quickly with Ghandi and make sure for proper defense. Next person up should try to scout Ghandi if possible, to see how defended the offending city is - hopefully we only need to take out one city. We should have pikemen, xbows, and maces before we attack if possible...

If we are going cultural though, we could stop building cities. The culture produced by the commerce in a city is only defined by that city and not affected by the amount of cities. We could start a war with freddie, raze a few cities, and then build the final city in the east.

Of course, what's one more city going to do for us versus the cost of even a small war? If we decide to start any more wars, we should raze enough of Ghandi and Freddie to get the tier finished, and start a new one. This may be more trouble than its worth considering it won't necesarily help us achieve cultural victory.