VQ06b - Emperor just win!

[namliaM]

Before we go "grabbing wonders" (says the Wonder-aholics Anonimous group member) lets focus on the task at hand. Get Kahn

No need for fishing or what ever I say. First settler goes east, Corney Hills...

I think, yes we need mysticism next after pottery. Do we need to bother with a barracks at all in Corney Hills? Or just build some warriors/Axe?

The bronze will fall withing the Paris' culture soon enough I think (check please how many turns?). Once its hooked, Axe only right? Till about 5 or so? Kahns Capitol will allready have considerable culture by then, dont know if we can take it... but atleast we can "cut him down".

 

[GreyFox]

Agreed ... knowing the Khans ... they would attack us sonner rather than later. I don't think we have the chance to declare ... I think Khan will declare on us.

As for early wonders, this is Emperor, fellows. If you ask me, only the Colossus or Great Library is worth the effort to divert production towards. The rest should be acquired militaristically

--

 

[armstrong]

Hopefully I'm not double posting, the forum's acting up.

Before we go "grabbing wonders" (says the Wonder-aholics Anonimous group member) lets focus on the task at hand. Get Kahn

Right.

The bronze will fall withing the Paris' culture soon enough I think (check please how many turns?).

It will take 2-3 border expansions, so, um, 2500ish turns?

We will need a settler for it, unfortunately. On the plus side, if we either settle on the copper and work a plains hill, or settle on a plains hill and work the copper, it will make between 6-7 hammers a turn. That's an axer every 5-6 turns, a pretty good clip.

No need for fishing or what ever I say. First settler goes east, Corney Hills...

I think, yes we need mysticism next after pottery. Do we need to bother with a barracks at all in Corney Hills? Or just build some warriors/Axe?

I think a barracks is a great idea. We're aggressive, it's cheaper than a single axer.

No fishing sounds good, except - if our bronze city has seafood, we will need it to grow beyond size 2. If not, well, it's just staying at size 1 for a long time.

Should we settle bronze first? We lose the land grab, but get earlier axers. Or do we grab Corney Hills first, copper second, and delay our axe rush (but have better infrastructure to sustain it?) If we settle directly on the bronze, we only need one more road to hook it up, so it won't slow us down too much. We might be able to squeeze out a settler in Paris while building a barracks in Corney, even.

Once its hooked, Axe only right? Till about 5 or so? Kahns Capitol will allready have considerable culture by then, dont know if we can take it... but atleast we can "cut him down".

This sounds reasonable, but what do you all think?

P.S., what do you think of our worker moves? Right now I'm considering, if we go to Corney Hills:

1. Finish Pigs
2. Mine a hill in Paris
3. Send worker with settler to Cornery. Chop obelisk.
4. Chop worker in Cornery while Paris builds 3rd settler.
4a. Send Worker A back to Paris for road to hook up bronze city, then mine for bronze city and a mine or river cottage in Paris.
4b. Worker B chops farms corn and then builds a connecting road to Paris.
5. Worker A & B finish road to Corney and start building mines in that city.

So, my questions for the group:

1) Settle Corney 1st, then Bronze? Or just Bronze?
2) Research path is finish Pottery -> Mysticism -> Writing? Should I deviate for Fishing after Mysticism if bronze city can use it?
3) See any problems with my proposed worker turns?
4) Should we build a river cottage in Paris? Should we build it on a wine for short-term gain?

Sheesh, so many things. Emperor is tough already!

 

[Cosmichail]

I think settling on the copper is an excellent idea quick way to get it and only way it can be pillaged is if the city is taken. Just loose out on the hammers for city. I think land grab (at least on Monarch) is what gets the AI upset and going for war. Since we are at the end of this landmass getting some land near Khan is good since he is expanding fast...but has it's risks.

I would like to see a quick axe rush but won't be easy with Khan culture. Better to get rid of him soon with Julius around. I think the bronze site is quite good for production but lacking in food ability. (not sure have to look at save again)

Armstrong - I noticed a lag in the forum too.....

 

[eektor]

I agree with namliaM, we need to concentrate on taking out Khan or at least taking one or two cities from him before we go for the wonders. If we don't take him out or cripple him we would be in bad shape for the rest of the game.

I think we need to hurry up and get our second city set up. I think we should go for the copper site. I like the idea of setting it up to the side instead of on the copper. That city is fairly close to our capital, so the worker does not have to move far to just set up a mine and road on the copper. After that city is done we could produce axeman for the rush. Maybe a possible break to get the corn city set up.

I like going Pottery next, but I think we should look at getting Iron Working. If we have any problems with our axeman rush, we would need swords for our second try or maybe they can appear towards the end of the war.

 

[namliaM]

I think we start crippling Khan by settling the corny hills. It will be a priority city sight for him I think... By getting it our selves first we can
1) Get "near" to his cities without leaving our borders
2) Build the Obelisk and wait for the border to pop
3) Build a Barracks => not sure about this one.
4) Build a granary => Less sure about this one...

or reverse 3 & 4 which ever we deam to be more valuable.

The copper indeed is to far away for the border to pop on Paris... we need a second settler there, but I wouldnt go and plop it right on the Bronze, unless thats where we catch some fish or something... We can use the extra hammer(s)

Tech I would go Pottery => Myst => Writing.
Or we can go for Oracle but we need to start now... Pottery => Oracle => Writing => CoL Freeby (provided we get oracle at all as we dont have Marble available...)

I think we are better off leaving Oracle. If we grab wonders... Lighthouse + Colossus is much more provitable...

 

[Cosmichail]

like going Pottery next, but I think we should look at getting Iron Working. If we have any problems with our axeman rush, we would need swords for our second try or maybe they can appear towards the end of the war

I say IW for the swords extra 10% city attack especially with all that culture Khan has.

I think we start crippling Khan by settling the corny hills. It will be a priority city sight for him I think... By getting it our selves first we can

Could be risky he might attack and being on emporer he probably has BW already. He might catch us unprepared. I say try it but get another settler right away to settle near copper unless we go for IW and have Iron in Paris or Corney Hills. (PS I misunderstood the placement of that in an earlier post) It's hard to tell on the pictures so loading the save seems to be better to understand.

Armstrong makes some good points and barracks are cheap as an aggressive civ have that extra promotion can make a real difference. Khan's capitol will probably be at 40-50% already which is tough without cats. If it is lightly defended we are ok but if defended by axes/archers

Are we even talking wonders BTW. Stonehenge is cheap and get a GP fairly quick but the others might be tough and I hate to see us loose production over it.

Edit: This Khan business reminds me of Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan

 

[namliaM]

Less talky more walky edit: Less silencio, more spammy... we are falling behind in the postcount

I dont care much about Kahn's bleeping capitol. Axe or Sword, without Cats its gonna be bloodshead.... Alltho a Suicide Axe can do wonders followed by a properly promoted one... as long as we are not facing a CD2 archer or something...

Stonehedge might just be one of the more usefull ones (for the early border pops) but without stone.... And whats more valuable right now? A Stone cirkel or a cirkel of Axe?
Stonehedge is 120 hammers (IF we still have that shot, cause I think we are WAY to late allready). Beeing France that is 80 raw hammers, thats 2 and a bit axe... not to bad for free border pops... How many turns does it take for Paris to gather up 80 hammers? We could chop a bit, getting 20 per forest

 

[armstrong]

Okay, playing right now.

 

[armstrong]

Okay, this is my first time using the... drumroll... autologger. What's everyone's opinion on that? I found it much nicer to take notes in game than switching to note pad. Except ... only my first three in-game notes came out? ARGH! Oh well, I took screenshots, and it was only 5 minutes ago

Turn 40 (2400 BC)

I ordered two of our exploring warriors back to guard Corney hills. I really don't want Khan getting any ideas. I leave one exploring the back of Khan's lands.

Turn 41 (2360 BC)

We have an archer in the little bit of fog on the French Peninsula. It will make settling our copper annoying:



Turn 47 (2120 BC)
Tech learned: Pottery
Research is begun on Mysticism, for an obelisk in Corney Hills.

Turn 48 (2080 BC)
Paris finishes: Settler

Paris builds a warrior - it's not safe having a barb archer wandering around so close to our capital.

Turn 49 (2040 BC)
Paris finishes: Warrior

Another warrior, we'll need two to escort the settler to the bronze site, in case the archer kills one.

IBT:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Paris's borders expand
Paris finishes: Warrior

Work begins on a settler for the bronze site.

Turn 51 (1960 BC)
Paris begins: Settler
Orleans founded
Corney Hills begins: Worker

The plan for Corney is to chop out a quick obelisk and then a worker. It has enough forests that two workers could cut an axe army out in a hurry. It also has a number of tiles to improve and needs a road connection to Paris...

Also, we have no seafood near the bronze.

Turn 53 (1880 BC)

We find the Caesar's lands:



Turn 54 (1840 BC)
Tech learned: Mysticism

Research is begun on Writing. My reasoning: IW will come in in 17 turns, too late for us to gamble on having Iron in the capital. We'll need to build some axemen for defense before swordsmen in any case, so it doesn't seem to hurt to delay Ironworking.

Turn 55 (1800 BC)
Research begun: Writing
Corney Hills begins: Obelisk

Stop the worker for now, prioritize the obelisk so we can work those hills asap!

Turn 58 (1680 BC)
Paris finishes: Settler

Turn 59 (1640 BC)
Paris begins: Worker

We could build Stonehenge in 10. I hope no one minds I elected to go for a worker instead. We need this worker to get our copper hooked up and a fourth tile in Paris improved, as our only other worker is busy in Corney Hills.

Turn 60 (1600 BC)

I didn't move the copper settler or the two warriors next to him yet. Here's the situation. Note that there's a barbarian archer out in the fog. The two warriors and the settler have not moved this turn:



I really like this city of Khan's:



Deer, Sheep, Corn, Bronze, Coastal. And close to Corney - it will make a good prize!

The world as we know it, so far:



If we take out Khan, we're going to be butting heads with JC. Fun stuff. On the plus side, he'll be our only neighbor, and it looks like our land will be very defensible.

I left settling the copper up to the next person. I see two options:

1. Settle on the copper. We don't need a mine and can get axemen sooner. I don't think Khan's going to give us much more time, he's running out of room fast. Still, I doubt he'd declare before 1000 BC? That'd give us 15 turns minimally. If he does before we have an axeman in Corney, though...
This will give us a total of 6 hammers/turn at size 1 (2 for city, 4 for plains hill.) It will eventually be able to steal a food source from Paris, but not until it achieves border expansion.

2. Settle on the blue circle 1n of the copper. It will take a few extra turns to mine the copper. It will be one more hammer at size 1 (2 for city, 5 for copper mine.) It can steal a food tile from Paris any time it wants.

I see merits to both.

 

[eektor]

I kind of like the one west of the copper to settle the copper city. Although it would be nice to have the save file so I can check it out.

Good job. Unfortunately we got rotten luck with that barb archer posponing our third city.

We might want to get ready for a war with Kublai just to take that second city and then declare peace until we get catapults, to finish him off.

 

[Cosmichail]

We might want to get ready for a war with Kublai just to take that second city and then declare peace until we get catapults, to finish him off.

That sounds prudent eektor.

Here's another thought I wouldn't be surprised if Julius declares war on KK. He doesn't have much room to breathe from what I can see.

Unfortunately we got rotten luck with that barb archer posponing our third city.

we probably don't have archery either.... so we need that copper sooner that later.

EDIT:

Less talky more walky edit: Less silencio, more spammy... we are falling behind in the postcount

Now you are confusing me......when I first saw that I thought ok me shall be silent and avoid my verbosity but now you say less silencio, more spammy... Sheesh wat een heen and weer gedoe.....(translated for our English speaking players what a back and forth situation.... sounds a lot better in Dutch trust me)

 

[GreyFox]

Nice turns, armstrong! (Though posting the save will have make it even nicer! )

Roster
-- GreyFox == Settled Paris
-- namliaM == Have Fun with the Pigs
-- armstrong == Hijacked the Save
-- eektor == Going for Copper?
-- Cosmichail == Yet another Trekkie?

--

If JC declare on KK, we should get invole and try to nab us at least Khan's 2nd city ... that's is a nice site. but that's a big if ... somehow I think JC may declare on us.

We have to get ready for war, guys. Wham out two warriors to rid us of the barb arch, and connect us the copper.

As to whether we need cats support or not, it depends on whether the AI has longbowmen already. If not, then suicidal axemen would do the trick enough.

--

 

[namliaM]

If we take out Khan, we're going to be butting heads with JC. Fun stuff. On the plus side, he'll be our only neighbor, and it looks like our land will be very defensible.

I dislike the taste of Praets in the morning

I left settling the copper up to the next person. I see two options:

1. Settle on the copper. We don't need a mine and can get axemen sooner. I don't think Khan's going to give us much more time, he's running out of room fast. Still, I doubt he'd declare before 1000 BC? That'd give us 15 turns minimally. If he does before we have an axeman in Corney, though...
This will give us a total of 6 hammers/turn at size 1 (2 for city, 4 for plains hill.) It will eventually be able to steal a food source from Paris, but not until it achieves border expansion.

2. Settle on the blue circle 1n of the copper. It will take a few extra turns to mine the copper. It will be one more hammer at size 1 (2 for city, 5 for copper mine.) It can steal a food tile from Paris any time it wants.

I see merits to both.

I still like it to be on the SW-most tile (West of the copper)... We get the most water in it... => Most food + most commerce possible...

I seem not to be the only one to forget uploading a save every now and again

@Cosmical: You speak dutch? Kewl...

Is it an option to KILL research for a little bit? How much is a warrior => Axe upgrade? We can pre-build us an army of 5 to 6 warriors. Which we upgrade, then build the Lib in Paris and only then resume research?

 

[GreyFox]

Is it an option to KILL research for a little bit? How much is a warrior => Axe upgrade? We can pre-build us an army of 5 to 6 warriors. Which we upgrade, then build the Lib in Paris and only then resume research?

Possibly. The good thing abt this is we maximize the use of the library. The catch is whether do we have any techs that we must have now ... such as Lit. for TGL (yeah, I am obsessed with TGL ).

 

[Cosmichail]

Possibly. The good thing abt this is we maximize the use of the library. The catch is whether do we have any techs that we must have now ... such as Lit. for TGL (yeah, I am obsessed with TGL ).

Me too (what a benefit having those two scientists) Is it possible on Emperor it's doable on Monarch but have to work fast......

@Cosmical: You speak dutch? Kewl...

Yes I used to live in a small village in Den Brielle ZH...(8 years love Holland)

Cosmichail == Yet another Trekkie?

Oh yah man.... and Star Wars too.......

 

[GreyFox]

In agreement with namliaM, I would settle west of copper as well. It turns the useless tundra tile into 2F1P1C, and has lots of ocean tiles. The hills are not workable, since even with windmills, they are not self-sufficient.

As for TGL, looking at the situation right now I think we can put it aside. We need military fast. I think our best approach is to conquer the Mongolian city(s), then we have a nice southern penisula all for ourselves.

--

 

[armstrong]

I don't think settling W of the copper is a good idea. Here's why:

If we settle 1w of the copper, we turn a tundra tile we'd never work (due to food) into 1 2F2P1C tile.

If we settle 1n of the copper, we turn a plains hill tile we'd never work (due to food) into a 2F2P1C tile. That's better.

This is really crucial since if we want to grow at anything beyond 1F/turn, we can't work the plains hill a windmill. So, when the city is growing, it will have double it's normal hammers.

Additionally, if we settle 1w of the copper, we are unable to steal a food tile from Paris for growth. This means it will never be able to grow faster than 2F (with 1P) per turn. Ouch.

But more importantly, I'd just settle on the copper. We only have warriors. A barb axemen, or a couple of barb archers, and this game could be over. We gambled by not getting archery, let's not gamble too much more.

Finally, to complete the analysis - the strength of the city is ultimately going to be determined by how many coast tiles it can work... my count is:

1n - 7 coast tiles
1w - 8 coast tiles
on copper - 9 coast tiles

Edit: The reason I counted coast tiles was because I don't see egular water tiles (2F1C) as being worth working since they extra person costs upkeep. You're gaining one commerce in a town that's never going to have very good infrastructure, and the rest of your towns with good infrastructure have to pay the bill.

Take what you will of all of this

 

[namliaM]

First off where is the SAVE?? We cannot do anything without it.

I thought about it a bit during the day and now tend to agree. We can never work anything but water anyway, so lets pick up hammers where we can. That is RIGHT ON TOP of the copper, having our CC beeing 2f/3h/1c.

In the future we could/should chain irrigate over the first wine ... i think...
Gets extra food to the plains tile and irrigates the rice. Worth mucho moro than having an extra Wine IMHO

 

[eektor]

Well, first of all if the copper is on top of a plain hill then you get 3 hammers in the city center. Since the copper is on a tundra hill, it would only be 2 hammers in the city center.

I don't like settling on the copper because let's face it, that's going to be the only source of hammer for the city. With the 5 hammers or so, we could build our early infrastructure and then work on growing the city getting commerce from the sea tiles. Also, its not like we are going to grow that much to be able to whip buildings in that city.

As for irrigating the wine, is it possible to send the irrigation the other way? If we can we might as well get the two wines so we can trade it to someone for gpt or a health or happy resource we need.