VQ06b - Emperor just win!
- Thread starter Maquis
- Start date
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
So very true, Armstrong said that in another SG and tomorrow came and nothing. So when tomorrow becomes today, no time to play......
EDIT: He did play tomorrow today......so I retract that.....(in the other SG)
armstrong
Prince
@Cosmichail & Mutineer 
It is true 
But, I actually do have time today, so I'm taking a look at the save right now.
It is true But, I actually do have time today, so I'm taking a look at the save right now.
armstrong
Prince
Hmm, can anyone get the save to work? 
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
GO armstrong GO........
Fight like Worf and put Khan's head on a stick. Can't wait and I will be able to play tonight so if you play today then wow what a team. Wooohoooo
Fight like Worf and put Khan's head on a stick. Can't wait and I will be able to play tonight so if you play today then wow what a team. Wooohoooo
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Armstrong,
I think Civfanatics.net is having a domain problem, however I might have downloaded the other day. I'll take a look and upload it again. Me dum, I am not at my own computer right now but will be later on tonight around 6pm Eastern daylight.
EDIT: Here's the link regarding the domain problem
domain name problem
Is there somewhere we could upload it for now...... any ideas???
2ND EDIT: If that does effect us we could email it to one another for now. I have lots of room on my email account
I think Civfanatics.net is having a domain problem, however I might have downloaded the other day. I'll take a look and upload it again. Me dum, I am not at my own computer right now but will be later on tonight around 6pm Eastern daylight.
EDIT: Here's the link regarding the domain problem
domain name problem
Is there somewhere we could upload it for now...... any ideas???
2ND EDIT: If that does effect us we could email it to one another for now. I have lots of room on my email account
armstrong
Prince
Good news! I downloaded a copy sometime before, so I have it
armstrong
Prince
Okay, turns played. Played 10.5 turns because Khan had a counterattack in place to hit Ning-Hsia - I didn't want to leave a bunch of red text to Cosmichail, so I hit enter to weather out the storm and see how bad it was going to be. We lived
Comments:
0. Karakorum is ours. The price was heavy... 1 catapult.
. I almost wish we had lost more due to unit costs! KK had sent the aforementioned counter attack stack out of the city, so it was mostly only a big pile of longbowmen that had to be beaten down.
1. I made a couple of possibly
moves. The first is that I built the Heroic Epic in Corny Hills. Outside of Paris, which really needs to be focused on commerce (our economy is getting bad), it's our best production city. It has the food to be workshopped some day. Still, it's not your standard HE city.
2. Second was research choice. I went for Printing Press after Engineering as no AI has it, but I'm not sure if it would have been better to go straight to Gundpowder, Chemistry, and Steel. I doubt we'll get it before they have it, given the rate things are going.
3. Most cities have moved to work on infrastructure. Unit costs are killing us, and we have enough troops to finish off Khan in a few turns.
4. Khan will offer us Feudalism for peace - but, I think it might be best just to finish him off. Once he's down to Samarqand (we have forces in place to take the last Sarai) he might offer more (or he might give up and offer less.) If we could get Gunpowder from him, though, that'd be a different story.
5. There's probably lots of resource trading/negotiations we could make now that we have a lot of KK's resources, spices freed up, etc. I was really focused on the war, so didn't pay attention.
6. National Epic was built in Besh, we have a GP coming in about 6 turns.
7. Here's a picture of Khan's new capital. We have lots of forces in position to take it, though it's probably a good idea to wait a turn to heal/take down the defenses. We have 10 catapults ready to head in, so it's toast
I think we need to think about how we want to win the game. In the A-Team, they mentioned that PA's are enabled. If we could get a PA with Cyrus, we'd make an unstoppable team. In order to do that, we need to get a defensive pact first asap, before he switches to Free Religion. I've never done this before, but it seems possible.
The other (non-PA) option is to research up to Chemistry & Steel and hopefully take over JC before he gets Infantry, then just keep warmongering until we can get a diplo/domination victory.
If the save doesn't work, PM me with your email Cosmichail
The log:
Comments:
0. Karakorum is ours. The price was heavy... 1 catapult.
. I almost wish we had lost more due to unit costs! KK had sent the aforementioned counter attack stack out of the city, so it was mostly only a big pile of longbowmen that had to be beaten down.1. I made a couple of possibly
moves. The first is that I built the Heroic Epic in Corny Hills. Outside of Paris, which really needs to be focused on commerce (our economy is getting bad), it's our best production city. It has the food to be workshopped some day. Still, it's not your standard HE city.2. Second was research choice. I went for Printing Press after Engineering as no AI has it, but I'm not sure if it would have been better to go straight to Gundpowder, Chemistry, and Steel. I doubt we'll get it before they have it, given the rate things are going.
3. Most cities have moved to work on infrastructure. Unit costs are killing us, and we have enough troops to finish off Khan in a few turns.
4. Khan will offer us Feudalism for peace - but, I think it might be best just to finish him off. Once he's down to Samarqand (we have forces in place to take the last Sarai) he might offer more (or he might give up and offer less.) If we could get Gunpowder from him, though, that'd be a different story.
5. There's probably lots of resource trading/negotiations we could make now that we have a lot of KK's resources, spices freed up, etc. I was really focused on the war, so didn't pay attention.
6. National Epic was built in Besh, we have a GP coming in about 6 turns.
7. Here's a picture of Khan's new capital. We have lots of forces in position to take it, though it's probably a good idea to wait a turn to heal/take down the defenses. We have 10 catapults ready to head in, so it's toast
I think we need to think about how we want to win the game. In the A-Team, they mentioned that PA's are enabled. If we could get a PA with Cyrus, we'd make an unstoppable team. In order to do that, we need to get a defensive pact first asap, before he switches to Free Religion. I've never done this before, but it seems possible.
The other (non-PA) option is to research up to Chemistry & Steel and hopefully take over JC before he gets Infantry, then just keep warmongering until we can get a diplo/domination victory.
If the save doesn't work, PM me with your email Cosmichail
The log:
Spoiler autolog :
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Impressive, most impressive.....
Only 1 cat now that's severe. Turns out I won't be home until about 8:30 but I'll take a look at the game then.
Armstrong I was thinking the same thing about the PA with Cyrus. It would be a good combo indeed but the rate the AI is moving it won't be long before they are heading for liberalism. I see in the spoiler that HC has liberalism so it won't be long before the others have it. Although Cyrus has a shrine and he might not go to free religion because of the advantage of LOS.
In my experience I find that when the AI is down to the last city they tend to want to give less but trying never hurts.
As to the GP in Besh what do we do with him? Won't he offer part of Divine right now. If it is a GS then use him for an academy this time?
That is a milestone taking Karakorum and holding the other cities. JC has been a good boy too...mmmm even back to friendly. Veerrryy interesting...
EDIT: This hasn't been discussed but mentioned by Armstrong, that we should raze Samarqand which I agree with. If it's under cultural pressure no sense in keeping it and let's get rid of Khan so we won't have those annoying "motherland citizens" crap.
Only 1 cat now that's severe. Turns out I won't be home until about 8:30 but I'll take a look at the game then.
Armstrong I was thinking the same thing about the PA with Cyrus. It would be a good combo indeed but the rate the AI is moving it won't be long before they are heading for liberalism. I see in the spoiler that HC has liberalism so it won't be long before the others have it. Although Cyrus has a shrine and he might not go to free religion because of the advantage of LOS.
In my experience I find that when the AI is down to the last city they tend to want to give less but trying never hurts.
As to the GP in Besh what do we do with him? Won't he offer part of Divine right now. If it is a GS then use him for an academy this time?
That is a milestone taking Karakorum and holding the other cities. JC has been a good boy too...mmmm even back to friendly. Veerrryy interesting...
EDIT: This hasn't been discussed but mentioned by Armstrong, that we should raze Samarqand which I agree with. If it's under cultural pressure no sense in keeping it and let's get rid of Khan so we won't have those annoying "motherland citizens" crap.
armstrong
Prince
The save seems to be working now
By GP I meant "Great Person" - I think he's most likely going to be a scientist or an engineer, though he could be Prophet or Artist. We'll just need to see.
Yes, HC discovered Liberalism. I mentioned that in the spoiler but forgot to list it. Not that we had a shot at it
By GP I meant "Great Person" - I think he's most likely going to be a scientist or an engineer, though he could be Prophet or Artist. We'll just need to see.
Yes, HC discovered Liberalism. I mentioned that in the spoiler but forgot to list it. Not that we had a shot at it
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Armstrong the save was fine I think they fixed the problem. Also I didn't say officially "I got it" and I am about to post my turnset shortly. Thanks for positioning the army, that made it easy to finish Khan off. It was Glorious......
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Good job getting Tabriz and Karakorum ... as expected, KK spread his defenders out in a futile attempt to save Tabriz which is not save-able 
We could either kill KK (but raze that city, it will never compete with JC's cultural pressure there), or leave him there. Both have their advantages.
On victory path, cultural is definitely out. We are pretty big (bigger than Cyrus or JC), so once developed our research/production pace should be comparable to them ... so we need tech trade to get us to the same competing level. I would say Space is a minute possibility.
Domination/Conquest is hard, but possible. We could form an army of Buddhist monks and go to war with the devils overseas. Or, we could try to buy JC into a war with Cyrus (and we MUST grab the holy city).
Diplo is yet another possibility. But I don't think the remaining 3 CIVs are bigger than Cyrus, so unless something change we may be competing with Cyrus.
I am not too enthusiastic abt PA ... its a new concept and I have 0 expereince on this. So I am going to tag this approach as KIV.
--
Cosmichail is UP, bring us New Sarai!
Eektor should be back in 2~3 days, so he could slot back in the next round.
We could either kill KK (but raze that city, it will never compete with JC's cultural pressure there), or leave him there. Both have their advantages.
On victory path, cultural is definitely out. We are pretty big (bigger than Cyrus or JC), so once developed our research/production pace should be comparable to them ... so we need tech trade to get us to the same competing level. I would say Space is a minute possibility.
Domination/Conquest is hard, but possible. We could form an army of Buddhist monks and go to war with the devils overseas. Or, we could try to buy JC into a war with Cyrus (and we MUST grab the holy city).
Diplo is yet another possibility. But I don't think the remaining 3 CIVs are bigger than Cyrus, so unless something change we may be competing with Cyrus.
I am not too enthusiastic abt PA ... its a new concept and I have 0 expereince on this. So I am going to tag this approach as KIV.
--
Cosmichail is UP, bring us New Sarai!
Eektor should be back in 2~3 days, so he could slot back in the next round.
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Turn 0
Still in Armstrongs last turn (nice setup BTW). Bombard New Sarai to 0%.
Dont attack wait for units to heal.
Turn 1
Contact JC he has horses to trade but we havent got anything to offer will try again later.
HC has 2 horses but wont trade just doesnt like us enough and no gpt to buy resources.
Worker start farm at CH. We loose an elephant to Crossbowmen/Sword takes him out.
Turn 2
Paris grows over happy limit whip university. Okinawa 2 over happy limit whip harbor. Lbm takes out sword / another sword finishes him off and protect him with axe.
Cat attacks New Sarai Withdraws
Cat attacks New Sarai and dies
Cat attacks New Sarai and dies
Mace attacks lbm he looses (83% !!!)
Mace attacks lbm he wins (93%0
Mace attacks lbm he wins
Mace attacks lbm he wins
Mace attacks pike he wins
Cat attacks cat and wins
Cat attacks lbm and wins
Cat attacks cat and wins
Cat attacks cat and wins
Axe attacks cat and wins
We take New Sarai get 3 workers. I try to get Feudalism/Gunpowder from KK he refuses. I try to get Gunpowder he refuses. (stubborn)
Turn 3
Paris is seriously unhappy start Buddhist temple 3 turns. (finishes university but doesnt help science too unhappy miserable Frenchman)
Cuman finishes granary start Harbor
New workers start mining iron near Karakorum
Start moving some troops towards Samarqand
Workers start plantation on spices near Turfan
Turn 4
We now surpass Monty in score. (thats just temporary though)
Move more troops towards Samarqand. More workers start plantation on spices.
We are experiencing WW big time.
Turn 5
KK asks for Peace treaty and offers optics, ask for gunpowder he refuses. Lets just finish this guy and get our infrastructure going.
Copper city growth in 2 turns switch to production to stagnate and build market. Builds mace and leave him there. Corney Hills finishes mace, we have enough units leave him there too. Start Buddhist temple for happiness.
Turn 6
Paris finishes Buddhist temple start theater in 4 turns. Less unhappy now. Besh finishes harbor we have 3 unhappy here loose specialist start theater in 3 turns. Karakorum come out of revolt 6 unhappy citizens there no production. We have the Sistine Chapel though nice. Start theater in Kara.
Khan is finished has only 1 lbm and 1 catapult garrisoning Samarqand so we will have to hold on with WW. Workers finish spices and send it to Dune. (whoops)
Turn 7
Monty asks to trade dyes for marble but wont trade silk or fur so screw him. (unless someone wants the marble but I think its useless and dont want to help him make his pop happy)
JC has completed the Taj Mahal and bragged about having Knights. Army in position at Samarqand (overkill) Workers start mine at Turfan.
Turn 8
Get defenses down to 10% at Samarqand and use one cat to weaken lbm and it withdraws.
Mace attacks lbm and wins
Mace attacks archer and wins
Mace attacks cat and wins
We take Samarqand and raze it. Thats the end of KK.
Put science up to 50% 378 gold -46 gpt. (will move troops back to home land and that should help with that.)
Turn 9
Paris finishes theater happy limit now 16 start courthouse (-4 main)
Besh finishes theater start university. WW is gone now Karakorum looking good. Printing Press due in 7 turns. New Sarai out of revolt in 1 turn GP due in 1 turn and we have GP points in Karakorum too.
Turn 10
New Sarai start theater to expand borders. Cyrus has Printing Press now!!!! Nothing to trade and 0 gpt available from him. Ok we get a GE he will give us Feudalism but I leave that to you Greyfox.
Move entire army to Ning Hsia, perhaps use to fortify some cities I leave that up to you Greyfox.
I think we should start building courthouses everywhere and heres why:
Ning Hsia -10gpt main Tabriz - -7gpt main Karakorum -11gpt main New Sarai -12gpt main Copper city -5gpt main Old Sarai -6gpt main. 51 gpt in main in just these cities with courthouses that would reduce to 25 gpt. With a few markets in the commerce cities we could get back to 50-60% science.
We now have 12 cities to our empire.
Here's the save: (PS I had to zip it and the Upload file server is off line)
Still in Armstrongs last turn (nice setup BTW). Bombard New Sarai to 0%.
Dont attack wait for units to heal.
Turn 1
Contact JC he has horses to trade but we havent got anything to offer will try again later.
HC has 2 horses but wont trade just doesnt like us enough and no gpt to buy resources.
Worker start farm at CH. We loose an elephant to Crossbowmen/Sword takes him out.
Turn 2
Paris grows over happy limit whip university. Okinawa 2 over happy limit whip harbor. Lbm takes out sword / another sword finishes him off and protect him with axe.
Cat attacks New Sarai Withdraws
Cat attacks New Sarai and dies
Cat attacks New Sarai and dies
Mace attacks lbm he looses (83% !!!)
Mace attacks lbm he wins (93%0
Mace attacks lbm he wins
Mace attacks lbm he wins
Mace attacks pike he wins
Cat attacks cat and wins
Cat attacks lbm and wins
Cat attacks cat and wins
Cat attacks cat and wins
Axe attacks cat and wins
We take New Sarai get 3 workers. I try to get Feudalism/Gunpowder from KK he refuses. I try to get Gunpowder he refuses. (stubborn)
Turn 3
Paris is seriously unhappy start Buddhist temple 3 turns. (finishes university but doesnt help science too unhappy miserable Frenchman)
Cuman finishes granary start Harbor
New workers start mining iron near Karakorum
Start moving some troops towards Samarqand
Workers start plantation on spices near Turfan
Turn 4
We now surpass Monty in score. (thats just temporary though)
Move more troops towards Samarqand. More workers start plantation on spices.
We are experiencing WW big time.
Turn 5
KK asks for Peace treaty and offers optics, ask for gunpowder he refuses. Lets just finish this guy and get our infrastructure going.
Copper city growth in 2 turns switch to production to stagnate and build market. Builds mace and leave him there. Corney Hills finishes mace, we have enough units leave him there too. Start Buddhist temple for happiness.
Turn 6
Paris finishes Buddhist temple start theater in 4 turns. Less unhappy now. Besh finishes harbor we have 3 unhappy here loose specialist start theater in 3 turns. Karakorum come out of revolt 6 unhappy citizens there no production. We have the Sistine Chapel though nice. Start theater in Kara.
Khan is finished has only 1 lbm and 1 catapult garrisoning Samarqand so we will have to hold on with WW. Workers finish spices and send it to Dune. (whoops)
Turn 7
Monty asks to trade dyes for marble but wont trade silk or fur so screw him. (unless someone wants the marble but I think its useless and dont want to help him make his pop happy)
JC has completed the Taj Mahal and bragged about having Knights. Army in position at Samarqand (overkill) Workers start mine at Turfan.
Turn 8
Get defenses down to 10% at Samarqand and use one cat to weaken lbm and it withdraws.
Mace attacks lbm and wins
Mace attacks archer and wins
Mace attacks cat and wins
We take Samarqand and raze it. Thats the end of KK.
Put science up to 50% 378 gold -46 gpt. (will move troops back to home land and that should help with that.)
Turn 9
Paris finishes theater happy limit now 16 start courthouse (-4 main)
Besh finishes theater start university. WW is gone now Karakorum looking good. Printing Press due in 7 turns. New Sarai out of revolt in 1 turn GP due in 1 turn and we have GP points in Karakorum too.
Turn 10
New Sarai start theater to expand borders. Cyrus has Printing Press now!!!! Nothing to trade and 0 gpt available from him. Ok we get a GE he will give us Feudalism but I leave that to you Greyfox.
Move entire army to Ning Hsia, perhaps use to fortify some cities I leave that up to you Greyfox.
I think we should start building courthouses everywhere and heres why:
Ning Hsia -10gpt main Tabriz - -7gpt main Karakorum -11gpt main New Sarai -12gpt main Copper city -5gpt main Old Sarai -6gpt main. 51 gpt in main in just these cities with courthouses that would reduce to 25 gpt. With a few markets in the commerce cities we could get back to 50-60% science.
We now have 12 cities to our empire.
Here's the save: (PS I had to zip it and the Upload file server is off line)
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Roster
GreyFox == UP for 5th set == Planning our next strategy
NamliaM == skipped == Wrath of "The Mailman"
Armstrong == finished 4th set == Sets up Khan, Khan to die....
Eektor == skip-- OoP: 2006.06.21~30
Cosmichail == finished 4th set == Finished Khan off
EDIT:
I just realized we are still trading dyes with JC for Deer. Maybe we should change that for horses if he will trade.......
GreyFox == UP for 5th set == Planning our next strategy
NamliaM == skipped == Wrath of "The Mailman"
Armstrong == finished 4th set == Sets up Khan, Khan to die....
Eektor == skip-- OoP: 2006.06.21~30
Cosmichail == finished 4th set == Finished Khan off
EDIT:
I just realized we are still trading dyes with JC for Deer. Maybe we should change that for horses if he will trade.......
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Good job wiping that fat guy off the face of the planet!!!
I see I have a peaceful turnset finally ... or maybe not
Hmm .. there is still an unknown Civ out there???
Re: GE, will most likely save him for a Wonder ... thus far we have been ignoring our trait of being Industrious ... time to put that to use me think.
What do people think abt victory path?
I may play tonight, maybe not. But I will look at the save before then and try to see which victory path is the most viable.
Note: I think the upload server is back in business.
I see I have a peaceful turnset finally ... or maybe not
Hmm .. there is still an unknown Civ out there???
Re: GE, will most likely save him for a Wonder ... thus far we have been ignoring our trait of being Industrious ... time to put that to use me think.
What do people think abt victory path?
I may play tonight, maybe not. But I will look at the save before then and try to see which victory path is the most viable.
Note: I think the upload server is back in business.
namliaM
Deity
Me thinks that victory will require domination of our continent.... 
If so I think that JC is next on the list, tho he is much smaller than Cyrus. Maybe we should take Cyrus first?
But we need to do it ASAP before anyone gets gunpowder, we should Beeline for Our UU and if possible Caveliers.
It would be nice to use that GE to get the Taj Mahal?
No weak PA with Cyrus (who is topdog in points, so will he go for it?).
If so I think that JC is next on the list, tho he is much smaller than Cyrus. Maybe we should take Cyrus first?But we need to do it ASAP before anyone gets gunpowder, we should Beeline for Our UU and if possible Caveliers.
It would be nice to use that GE to get the Taj Mahal?
No weak PA with Cyrus (who is topdog in points, so will he go for it?).
armstrong
Prince
Hmm, well, I'm not sure what wonder we could even build at this point... Taj has already been built... the ai's must be very close to Riflemen if they don't already have them.
I see three possibilties:
1. PA with Caesar or Cyrus. Caesar's favored civic is Representation, so we can theoretically get that in the not-so-distant future, and take out the rest so our super-nation controls the entire continent.
2. Brute force military domination. Probably with Grens & Cannons. Hopefully not against Infantry, but who knows. Cannons can be very powerful, but...
3. Backdoor diplomatic victory. If Cyrus stays in Buddhism, we could probably run Representation for points with JC and get both of them to vote for us. I don't know if our continent will have the population to win, though it might be worth a shot.
I'm really torn between the three. All seem like they'd have a shot, but all three seem very difficult.
Taj has already been built... the ai's must be very close to Riflemen if they don't already have them.I see three possibilties:
1. PA with Caesar or Cyrus. Caesar's favored civic is Representation, so we can theoretically get that in the not-so-distant future, and take out the rest so our super-nation controls the entire continent.
2. Brute force military domination. Probably with Grens & Cannons. Hopefully not against Infantry, but who knows. Cannons can be very powerful, but...
3. Backdoor diplomatic victory. If Cyrus stays in Buddhism, we could probably run Representation for points with JC and get both of them to vote for us. I don't know if our continent will have the population to win, though it might be worth a shot.
I'm really torn between the three. All seem like they'd have a shot, but all three seem very difficult.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
@Muntineer: lol, if so, please make more comments
@namliaM:
Heh heh, please read the turnset report from cosmichail and edit your post ... Gunpowder? Taj Mahal?
@namliaM:
namliaM said:Me thinks that victory will require domination of our continent....
But we need to do it ASAP before anyone gets gunpowder, we should Beeline for Our UU and if possible Caveliers.
It would be nice to use that GE to get the Taj Mahal?
No weak PA with Cyrus (who is topdog in points, so will he go for it?).
Heh heh, please read the turnset report from cosmichail and edit your post ... Gunpowder? Taj Mahal?
armstrong
Prince
Hey, I just looked at the save and think I just found a way we might be able to get out of our tech hole
I don't know if Monty or HC is Cyrus's worst enemy, but... Cyrus researchs too fast for us to trade with him - at least right now, anyway. So we could anger him a little - as long as we share Buddhism & HR he'll be at least pleased with us.
However, Monty won't trade techs because he doesn't like us. He will buy a tech from us, though.
If we sell Monty Education for 300 gold (ouch) he'll certainly give us a +2 to +4 boost in relations. That will speed up PP & should be enough to get him to trade techs again. He's really backward (we'll more than likely pass him in GNP once the new cities start coming online) so it will be a guaranteed trading partner for Printing Press.
JC also doesn't have Printing Press yet, so we might be able to trade that to him for Gunpowder. With Gunpowder, we can then research Chemistry->Steel and build up Cannons & Grens for the next war Heck, Monty doesn't have Gunpowder yet, so maybe we can trade it to him, too.
Trades haven't worked out in the past, but I think it's crucial we get more partners. I think it's fine to anger Cyrus (or even JC - we have a pretty substantial army built up where he'd strike us, and once we get Grens+Cannons we could do a lot.)
Monty also has Fur & Silk to trade, and is missing tons of our resources. I say we bring him along as a friend, and Cyrus be damned.
I think we should burn the GE for Feudalism. That way, we can get Guilds from Monty for Printing Press. Optionally, we could use it to build a national wonder (Oxford or Forbidden Palace?)
If we run some merchants in Besh, we might luck out and get a Great Merchant that would let us upgrade all of our
So, here is my 3 point plan for victory, aka:
"The Nahuatl Plan"
1. Sell Education to Monty for 300 gold for better relations and to speed up Printing Press. Negotiate trades with Monty for Silk & Fur as needed.
2. Trade Printing Press to JC for Gunpowder (and whatever else he'll give us.) Trade Printing Press to Monty for Guilds (he has knights) and whatever else he'll give us. Next turn, trade Gunpowder to Monty if he'll take it for even more techs and see if we can trade Printing Press to Huayna & mystery civ (if you peeked in the A-thread you know who it is) for maybe Banking?
3. Build some quick infrastructure while researching Chemistry->Steel. Take over JC with Grens & Cannons.
What do you all think?
I don't know if Monty or HC is Cyrus's worst enemy, but... Cyrus researchs too fast for us to trade with him - at least right now, anyway. So we could anger him a little - as long as we share Buddhism & HR he'll be at least pleased with us.
However, Monty won't trade techs because he doesn't like us. He will buy a tech from us, though.
If we sell Monty Education for 300 gold (ouch) he'll certainly give us a +2 to +4 boost in relations. That will speed up PP & should be enough to get him to trade techs again. He's really backward (we'll more than likely pass him in GNP once the new cities start coming online) so it will be a guaranteed trading partner for Printing Press.
JC also doesn't have Printing Press yet, so we might be able to trade that to him for Gunpowder. With Gunpowder, we can then research Chemistry->Steel and build up Cannons & Grens for the next war
Heck, Monty doesn't have Gunpowder yet, so maybe we can trade it to him, too.Trades haven't worked out in the past, but I think it's crucial we get more partners. I think it's fine to anger Cyrus (or even JC - we have a pretty substantial army built up where he'd strike us, and once we get Grens+Cannons we could do a lot.)
Monty also has Fur & Silk to trade, and is missing tons of our resources. I say we bring him along as a friend, and Cyrus be damned.
I think we should burn the GE for Feudalism. That way, we can get Guilds from Monty for Printing Press. Optionally, we could use it to build a national wonder (Oxford or Forbidden Palace?)
If we run some merchants in Besh, we might luck out and get a Great Merchant that would let us upgrade all of our
So, here is my 3 point plan for victory, aka:
"The Nahuatl Plan"
1. Sell Education to Monty for 300 gold for better relations and to speed up Printing Press. Negotiate trades with Monty for Silk & Fur as needed.
2. Trade Printing Press to JC for Gunpowder (and whatever else he'll give us.) Trade Printing Press to Monty for Guilds (he has knights) and whatever else he'll give us. Next turn, trade Gunpowder to Monty if he'll take it for even more techs and see if we can trade Printing Press to Huayna & mystery civ (if you peeked in the A-thread you know who it is
) for maybe Banking?3. Build some quick infrastructure while researching Chemistry->Steel. Take over JC with Grens & Cannons.
What do you all think?
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