VS1-Agression

[Commander Bello]

Reply to GK's intra-turn posting:
At the moment, nobody will trade us any tech (sorry, forgot about adding that to my turn-description. So, we are falling more and more behind at the moment. Since we already have some money accumulated, I will start on own research next turn.

I am open for any discussion, though, about what to do with our MGL.
1) we could build the next army, as soon as New-Atlanta has been founded (this way, we would be able to get new MGLs from the next battles)
2) we could rush the temple at Sulcis
3) we could save it for palace jump (although I would like the palace jump after we have met the necessary town limit for the FP - then Carthage would go for FP and the palace could be jumped to somewhere at the American border, perhaps to Leptis Minor?)
Bottom line:
As we are fighting and winnig battles, we should make almost instant use of the MGL. Nevertheless, if we would create an army of it, we shouldn't wait for knights (which we can't get at the moment, anyway). I'm very reluctant to build another defensive army, also. With an offensive army, we could kick any aggressor, while the defensive army is almost doomed to sit and wait.
Please keep in mind, that we have almost crossed the American territory and will meet the Iroquois, soon.

Any comments highly welcome.

 

[Commander Bello]

<return>

IBT

Faro fell to the Germans, spawning off two GerWorkers.
AmGalley still heading north, now at Leptis Magna.
AmKnight rushes into Washington.
AmKnight heads for yellowed Horse at former Atlanta

yellow PortSpear moving north through JapTerritory.

Utica finishes Cat. MM'd and switched to NumMec in 5.
Oea finishes Horse. Stays on Horses.

Turn 4 (390 AD)
Polite Germans won't trade any tech.
Gracious Japs won't trade any tech.
Polite Vikings won't trade any tech.
Furious Celts won't trade any tech.
Polite Greeks won't trade any tech.
Polite Byzantines won't Feudalism or Theology, but Engineering or Republic for furs, wines, 23 gpt and 309 g (all we have) - no way.
Angry Spanish won't trade Feudalism, but Engineering (Theology) [Republic] for Wines, Horses, 13(31)[12] gpt and 309 g - no way.
Annoyed Portuguese won't trade any tech.

As the Germans have conquered Faro, it seems reasonable to found a city somewhere at the triangle between Faro, Cirta and Hippo, as we are surrounded by friendly nations in that area.

Atlanta army:
5 Cat bombardment on AmKnight failed.
2 Cat bombardment on AmKnight successful, redlining it.
VetHorse kills AmKnight.
Unharmed Horses, NumMercArmy and Cats move to location of New-Atlanta.

Cat Leptis Minor => Sulcis
Worker gang at Sulcis starts roading the mountain (=> road connection Sulcis - New-Atlanta w/o crossing rivers)
Worker gang at Rusaddir finished irrigation => Hippo for roads from Hippo to new city north of Faro.
Horse Oea => Theveste
Worker gang @ Nora finishes road.
NumMec @ Sabratha => Cirta.
NumMec @ Cirta => new town location N of Faro.
NumMec @ worker gang@ Rusaddir => NW of Leptis Magna
Cat @ Utica => Cadiz

Adjusted research to 10 % (Feudalism in 40)
Updated planning (see map in previous posting)
Attack 1 on Washington (to break any trades of the Americans, thus destroying their reputation)
Attack 2 on St. Louis.
Attack 3 (later) on Chicago - this will give us a border with the Iroquois and allow us to attack St. Regis with two gems. After Chicago has been taken, peace with the Americans to get tech/cities/slaves and to allow us to concentrate on the Iriquois.

Summary:
We killed 1 AmUnit
No own losses.
We have 15 cities. We produce:
3 NumMerc, 3 Cats, 2 Horses, 1 Sword, 3 Markets, 2 Temples, 1 Rax
Feudalism in 40. +17 gold/turn
We are awfully weak

 

[Commander Bello]

<return>

IBT:
2 AmKnights race towards Atlanta army
AmGalley heads north towards Carthage.

Redlined JapSamurai => north through Celtic territroy.

Carthage produced Sword. Stays on Swords
Leptis Magna produced Horse. Switches to Settler for making use of the excess food.
Theveste finished market. Switches to horse
Cadiz finished Cat, switches to market.

Turn 5 (400 AD)
Notice: Byzantines now own Eboracum (formerly Japanese). The Germans have Lapurdum & Ratae Coritanorum, though.

Atlanta army
3 Cats firing at regAmKnight, threatening the worker gang at Sulcis, redlining it.
VetHorse kills AmKnight => elite.
1 Cat firing at AmKnight S in the forest, unsuccessfully.
Cats in the plains join rest of army on the hills.

Settler gang on march towards New-Atlanta location joins with yellowed horses of Atlanta army.

Worker gang at Nora finished roading, switched to irrigation.
NumMerc @ Sabratha => Cirta
Worker gang @ Cirta chopped forest => rax in 5.
Native workers => forests S of Cirta for road connection, slave workers start roading.
Horse @ Rusaddir => Worker gang @ Sulcis
Horse @ Leptis Magna => Rusaddir
2 Cats @Cadiz => Hippo
NumMerc on march towards new town location spots iron in JapTerritory WWW of Hippo.

"3rd (Horse) Army" at Sulcis loaded with 4th horse and moved onto mountain S.

Summary:
1 AmKnight killed
No own losses, 1 VetHorse upgraded.
15 towns, producing: 3 NumMerc, 2 Cat, 2 Horse, 1 Sword, 1 Settler, 3 Markets, 2 Temples, 1 Rax
Unit count: 2 Settlers, 7 native workers, 20 warriors, 2 archers, 1 sword, 16 horse, 18 cats, 3 armies, 14 NumMerc, 1 MGL
+19 gold, Fuedalism in 39

End of turn

 

[akots]

Originally posted by gormdragan
... In the shadow game I am playing ...

Sorry but this is

There is no way to prevent you from doing this but at least make sure we never post or pm anything before the end of the game. Note that other people may be reading the tread and this is not good. It is probably the second worst thing in SG after using GoTo orders. No offense please.

 

[gormdragan]

I apologise for the shadow game. It did not occur to me that it had any implications. I built up a nice SOD, and played a couple of more turns on my own to use up those units.

It won't happen again.

 

[akots]

Nice write up and good turns!

Roster:
1. Strider - in hospital. Vacant
2. Commander Bello ----> just played
3. Gengis Khan -----> get ready
4. akots ---->
5. gormdragan --->
6. andvruss ----> UP

@andvruss: Please post "Got it" within 24 hours and you have 48 hours to play the turns. It would be nice to discuss what you are going to do but this is up to you.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by akots
Nice write up and good turns!

Roster:
1. Strider - in hospital. Vacant
2. Commander Bello ----> just played
3. Gengis Khan -----> get ready
4. akots ---->
5. gormdragan --->
6. andvruss ----> UP

@andvruss: Please post "Got it" within 24 hours and you have 48 hours to play the turns. It would be nice to discuss what you are going to do but this is up to you.

Ooops?

I thought, we would have 10 turns each?
Well, if it is only 5, this is fine with me as well. Might I just ask for clarification, since I would have to save then?

 

[Commander Bello]

<return>

IBT:
Germany and Byzantine have signed a military alliance vs Celts
Spain goes at war with Japs
Portugal and Byzantines have signed a military alliance vs America!
Portugal and Incas signed a military alliance vs Greece

JapSamurai killed PortSpear
AmGalley finally dropped Spear next to Theveste
AmKnight kills EliteHorse next to New-Atlanta location.
AmArcher heads towards worker gang at Sulcis and gets yellowed by 3rd Horse Army.

Babylonians request audience. Oh oh.. do we have an alliance with somebody agains them? After all what I remember, the only alliance we are in is with the Japs vs Americans, isn't it? Hammu requests 250 + 1 gpt - forget it!

Sabratha finishes market and turns to NumMerc.

Turn 6 ( 410 AD)
Intelligence:
We are at war with:
Russia (far away / no troops spotted)
Hittites (far away / no troops spotted)
Babylon (far away / no troops spotted)
Inca (far away / no troops spotted / allied with Hittites vs us)
Iroquois (far away / no troops spotted)
America (under our pressure)

The alliance with the Japs still is valid for 7 turns

The peace treaty with the Celts still is valid for 3 turns. After it has expired, we could team up with the others to get our piece of the cake.
The peace treaty with the Germans still is valid for 5 turns
The peace treaty with the Spanish still is valid for 13 turns

We have no trades ongoing.

aargh... I have to be finished already????
Sorry, if I missed something, not to spoil the fun for anybody, here is the save as of beginning of my turn 6 (410AD).
I just pressed <return> and didn't do anything else, except for declining the Babylonians and checking diplomacy.

save (410 AD just started) - no units moved

 

[akots]

Originally posted by Commander Bello
... I thought, we would have 10 turns each?
Well, if it is only 5, this is fine with me as well. Might I just ask for clarification, since I would have to save then?

Sorry, it reads like 10

Please continue... Pardon.

I'm reading another SG at the moment and was thus confused.

 

[Commander Bello]

ok... I am going on, then...

Sorry, if my posts are too long... I can shorten them of course, but I thought you would be interested in my kind of thinking, as I am new to the team.

 

[akots]

Certainly yes! Please continue... It is very intense reading.

 

[Commander Bello]

<return>

IBT

Faro fell to the Germans, spawning off two GerWorkers.
AmGalley still heading north, now at Leptis Magna.
AmKnight rushes into Washington.
AmKnight heads for yellowed Horse at former Atlanta

... still in turn 6 (410 AD)

Horse at Theveste kills AmSpear, becoming elite. => Carthage

Atlanta army group
1 Cat redlines yellow AmArcher
3 Cats redline yellow AmKnight
VetHorse kills AmKnight
VetHorse kills AmArcher

3rd Horse Army pillages plains between St. Louis and Washington and moves to mountain. Plan is to pillage everything around Washington to break any American trade.

Settler moved to New-Atlanta location.
VetHorse moved to cattle at Chicago for recce.


Worker gang moved to Leptis Minor for irrigation and roading.
VetHorse @Rusaddir => Sulcis
NumMerc @Cirta => Hippo
Worker gang @Cirta: road and irrigation

NumMerc => Leptis Magna.
2 Cats @Hippo => Leptis Minor

Hurried market at Rusicade for 40 gold.

Adjusted research to 20% => -2gpt, Feudalism in 27


Summary:
We killed 3 AmUnits
We lost 0 own units
We have 15 cities, producing: 4 NumMerc, 2 Cats, 2 Horses, 1 Sword, 1 Settler, 2 Markets, 2 Temples, 1 Rax
Unit count:
2 Settlers, 7 native workers, 29 slave workers, 20 Warriors, 2 Archers, 1 Sword, 11 Horse, 18 Cats, 3 Armies (3NumMerc, 3NumMerc, 4Horse), 8 NumMerc, 1 MGL
83 of allowed 36 units.

End of turn 6 (410 AD)

 

[Commander Bello]

<return>

IBT
Japs signed peace with America!!!!Treators!

Americans request audience. I decline, since I want to get those 3 cities - Washington, St. Louis and

Rusicade finishes market => Horse

oh oh.... That much about preventing cultural flips with garrisons!
Would you please take notice, that Oea still had 4 garrison troops? Now, this really is "$§$"%§%

Please, for the rest of my turns I don't want to hear anything about no temples needed, ok?

 

[Commander Bello]

continuing with turn 7 (420 AD)

Rusicade switched to temple
Research adjusted to 10%, giving us 57gpt for hurrying temples.
Checking the Japs: attitude dropped from gracious to polite. And no, they don't have Espionage.

This is a very severe drawback. The only positive thing about is, that it has released our 31 gpt to Japan.
The ROP is still valid for 6 turns. After that, I wouldnt bet anymore on the Japs.

This incident will make us to wait one additional turn for the next army.

Atlanta army group
Founded Saldae (formerly known as New-Atlanta), creating temple.
1st NumMerc Army and Cats move S towards St.Louis.


3rd Horse army pillages around Washington.

3 Cats arrive at Leptis Minor.

Hurried rax at Cirta.

Summary:
We killed 0 units
We lost 0 own units
We lost 1 town due to cultural flip (3 warriors, 1 NumMerc lost)
We have 15 cities, producing: 4 NumMerc, 2 Cats, 1 Horses, 1 Sword, 1 Settler, 1 Market, 4 Temples, 1 Rax
Unit count:
1 Settler, 7 native workers, 29 slave workers, 17 Warriors, 2 Archers, 1 Sword, 11 Horse, 19 Cats, 3 Armies (3NumMerc, 3NumMerc, 4Horse), 7 NumMerc, 1 MGL
83 of allowed 36 units.
Income: +61 gpt, Fuedalism in 37 turns

End of turn 6 (410 AD)End of turn 7 (420 AD)

Planning still is like this:
(yellow: attack on American cities in stated order)
(red: new cities in stated order)
(cyan: attack on Iroquois after peace w/ Americans)

 

[Commander Bello]

It's already midnight over here.

I would continue tomorrow at noon.

In case, anyone else would be eager to jump in, that's the save

 

[akots]

@Bello. It might be better if you finish your 10 turns if you can and time permits. To avoid any interference from other players, you can play your turns first and only then post the log. This is the usual way to handle SG. However, in certain cases of some critical decisions to be made, advice from other team members can be beneficial.

IMHO, we better get peace with America in exchange for a tech or two (Feudalism or Engineering) if possible including some gpt payment of luxury trade from us if needed. We are not playing AW game. As I understood correctly, all these warriors and cats hurt our budget immensely. We need knights and more cities.

All troops can be then moved to Japanese border and after RoP expires, we can attack Japan. Toku can be handled with 4 armies. Just pillage all their roads and iron and defend as it was in the case of America. We need to recapture Oea and raze some of Japanese cities to feel safe in the future. Haiwata can be a good target but they are too far away from our core. Also, there is substantial area to be settled. If America insists, the war can be continued, of course. But they are not that serious threat atm. We can get them in 20 turns, after all.

Since reputations of virtually all AIs are ruined already, there is little danger of a dog pile. Also, Japan is still involved in a couple of other wars apparently, so they might be an easy target. They can be in their Golden Age now but this would end soon.

 

[Commander Bello]

I was so angry about Oea, I couldn't sleep

You are right about how to handle the Japs.
However, we have to take into consideration, that our main forces are already deep in American territory. And with those three American towns we would get access to the fertile American soil south of the northern desert belt.
Maybe, Chicago would be too much, that's right. But I would propose to get St. Louis and Washington, and then to squeeze the max out of the Americans.
And to build new towns at the proposed locations.

After that, we could first team up with the rest against the Celts, as they are almost on our armies' way north.

And then... ... just teach the Japs how to deal with alliances

 

[gormdragan]

It appears that the game has brought the argument to an end. I have made a bad judgment call and I stand by it.

My bad.

 

[Commander Bello]

No matter, gormdragan.

I could have built the temples which I felt to be needed. I was the one to be on the bridge, wasn't I?

Most probabyl, this is a lesson, we will not forget. So, next time we do it better - that is, what learning is about, I guess.

So, we have to be a little bit careful now since we have to create the temples at the border towns very quickly.
I'll do so tomorrow, and then one of you may kick the Japs

 

[Gengis Khan]

Now that's dramatic irony at its best.

Good luck, that's a sticky situation we're in.