PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,764
I am guessing this means that I am the only living person at this time that is developing a 40k mod for civ4?
Warhammer 40k mod development thread
- Thread starter The Great Apple
- Start date
mrkingkong
Young Padawan
Well at least someone is 
If you want to take over this thread, im sure TGA wouldnt mind that at all. That ways we can all help in the development, with ideas suggestions and whatever else you need (i draw the line at coffee, im no waiter
)
Or just start a new one and p0ost us the link?
Good to see that there is still interest in this sort of thing.
mrkingkong
If you want to take over this thread, im sure TGA wouldnt mind that at all. That ways we can all help in the development, with ideas suggestions and whatever else you need (i draw the line at coffee, im no waiter
)Or just start a new one and p0ost us the link?
Good to see that there is still interest in this sort of thing.
mrkingkong
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,764
At this point I have already done a lot. I already have 80% of the entire thing in concept. The tech tree shall be done soon and so shall the units.
I have found most of the models that I shall be using, althou I still need someone to animate them. I have special problems with animating infantry.
I will also need someone that knows how to work FFH2 code to make AI use units properly.
I can do 99% of the desing, tech tree and the like. But I need someone that knows how to do magic with python.
I have found most of the models that I shall be using, althou I still need someone to animate them. I have special problems with animating infantry.
I will also need someone that knows how to work FFH2 code to make AI use units properly.
I can do 99% of the desing, tech tree and the like. But I need someone that knows how to do magic with python.
kluthe
Jack-of-most-trades
I have the capability to script python, but I don't know how
karmaterrorist
Chieftain
Hi there, anyone still working on TGA's mod?
I've been working on my own 40K mod for sometime, and much of what has been included in this thread is absolutely awesome. Far beyond my initial design/imagination.
One thing I have been trying to work out, is a way of setting up a Comms Relay wonder (like ManhattenProj) which allows all civs to access more units once it's created. This way Marines, CSM and Baneblades, etc. will be able to enter (by dropship) at the endgame, regardless of who is at what tech-level.
If possible, would someone be able to send me a copy of the project? I'd love to give it a go, and I'm facinated to see how some of the design ideas have been implemented.
(Please, please mrkingkong!)
Many thanks.
I've been working on my own 40K mod for sometime, and much of what has been included in this thread is absolutely awesome. Far beyond my initial design/imagination.
One thing I have been trying to work out, is a way of setting up a Comms Relay wonder (like ManhattenProj) which allows all civs to access more units once it's created. This way Marines, CSM and Baneblades, etc. will be able to enter (by dropship) at the endgame, regardless of who is at what tech-level.
If possible, would someone be able to send me a copy of the project? I'd love to give it a go, and I'm facinated to see how some of the design ideas have been implemented.
(Please, please mrkingkong!)
Many thanks.
Midnight-Blue766
The filidh that cam frae Skye
Never mind, I should really pay attention to the starting post.
Asp-Sorcerer
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2010
- Messages
- 33
Its nearly 2012, is this mod still in progress? Theres a Civ 4 mod for almost anything,
40k wouldn't hurt.
40k wouldn't hurt.
I'm pretty sure no dead people are currently developing 40k mods. It's even less likely that any living ones are.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,764
I don't know about that part. The dead can be pretty resourceful. As far as things being unlikely go that much I can agree on. For example, as far as I am concerned it was a one time project that I gave up on very quickly and newer turned back to. Don't know about the others.
Thing is, any 40K mod would have to be almost as difficult to make and balance as FFH. And I don't think anyone on the forum has both the energy and the free time to pull something like that off and yet no serious project he or she is already working on.
Thing is, any 40K mod would have to be almost as difficult to make and balance as FFH. And I don't think anyone on the forum has both the energy and the free time to pull something like that off and yet no serious project he or she is already working on.
I would argue that making a 40k mod would be even more difficulty than FFH2 mod.
(well, I guess it wouldn't need as many writers, but between unit art, leaderheads, balance, and avoiding getting sued ... would all add up to something likely more difficult.)
That being said, I think FFH2 and other mods have laid much of the groundwork which would make some of the base mechanics a bit easier to architect (as opposed to starting from scratch).
------------
Some decisions would definitely have to be made.
1. Only land battle? Land and Sea? Land and Space?
I think having maps between Land only and Land and Space would be best.
-> I forget if a mod did this already .... where the sea was outerspace?
(A ship's ranged bombardment should be at least as long as the Planetoid's radius-> to mimick orbital bombardment)
Tyrannids should likely be an event, similar to the Armageddon's 4 horsemen only 100x worse. Same thing for the Necrons imho.
There should probably be a number of pre-made maps.
At least one of these should have the Imperium of man as a great number of large, successful, independent cities. With several pro-human factions (Ultramarines, Sister's of Battle, maybe on Imperium Regiment) having a city or two each.
Also, there should probably be a playable version of Tyrannids and Necrons (just for SP fun if nothing else).
Necron capital should likely infinitely spawn free legions, while better soldiers are buildable and use normal maintenance. Then they should all get march/heal while move for free.
Space Marine 'deep strike' units should have the Commando promotion most likely.
Tyrannids should breed through combat, AND through razing cities. Combat should give them "Supply Spores" ... these spores can be upgraded to any Tyrannid unit (for appropriate gold cost, ie no cost for cheap melee units), and can ALSO be used to create buildings (ie the Supplies from FFH2). Spores should also be able to add to cities as population. -> Sort of like manes, only created from battle.
Hives (moving capitals?) can also slowly spawn spores over time. Should have fallow trait. The Hive is a moving city that can get better over time, while the rest are stationary. All cities being fallow (can only grow in size via combat spores).
that's all for now
(well, I guess it wouldn't need as many writers, but between unit art, leaderheads, balance, and avoiding getting sued ... would all add up to something likely more difficult.)
That being said, I think FFH2 and other mods have laid much of the groundwork which would make some of the base mechanics a bit easier to architect (as opposed to starting from scratch).
------------
Some decisions would definitely have to be made.
1. Only land battle? Land and Sea? Land and Space?
I think having maps between Land only and Land and Space would be best.
-> I forget if a mod did this already .... where the sea was outerspace?
(A ship's ranged bombardment should be at least as long as the Planetoid's radius-> to mimick orbital bombardment)
Tyrannids should likely be an event, similar to the Armageddon's 4 horsemen only 100x worse. Same thing for the Necrons imho.
There should probably be a number of pre-made maps.
At least one of these should have the Imperium of man as a great number of large, successful, independent cities. With several pro-human factions (Ultramarines, Sister's of Battle, maybe on Imperium Regiment) having a city or two each.
Also, there should probably be a playable version of Tyrannids and Necrons (just for SP fun if nothing else).
Necron capital should likely infinitely spawn free legions, while better soldiers are buildable and use normal maintenance. Then they should all get march/heal while move for free.
Space Marine 'deep strike' units should have the Commando promotion most likely.
Tyrannids should breed through combat, AND through razing cities. Combat should give them "Supply Spores" ... these spores can be upgraded to any Tyrannid unit (for appropriate gold cost, ie no cost for cheap melee units), and can ALSO be used to create buildings (ie the Supplies from FFH2). Spores should also be able to add to cities as population. -> Sort of like manes, only created from battle.
Hives (moving capitals?) can also slowly spawn spores over time. Should have fallow trait. The Hive is a moving city that can get better over time, while the rest are stationary. All cities being fallow (can only grow in size via combat spores).
that's all for now
Which begs the question: Why are we here talking about it?
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,764
Because 40K is epic and we are all fans hoping someone goes and makes a 40K mod.
All cities would probably have 1 ring (maybe 2 rings for certain civs, like Tau and the Imperium)
Tau and Eldar would be the late game civs ... while Orks would be the early game rushers.
(Orks need less tech for spacetravel, but obviously don't do it as well)
Tanks, Titans, and other Seige equipment should probably have a chance of being captured. Well, capturing a Titan would probably tricky as all hell/ next to impossible, but maybe with enough techpriests .... (I'd say Orks, Marines, Chaos, Imperium, Sisters of Battle, Tau, Eldar -> All races that can capture other's 'machine tech'). Maybe Orks should be limited to capturing tanks and spaceships.
As far as that goes, perhaps Tyrannid should be able to capture spaceships (derelects?)
Tao/Eldar -> science
Eldar -> teleportation
Orks -> food + MFG (super efficient whips and drafts)
Imperium -> best maintenance (Organized Traitx1.5, Courthouse UB), best overall armada
-> lighthouse turns into "space dock" -> Their spacedock UB should give faster ship production similar to Drydock ... they have the 3rdor4th best ships in the Galaxy and can produce the LARGEST fleet (other than perhaps Tyrannid of course)
and while Imperium fleets are the largest, Eldar fleets are the fastest, Tau fleets are the strongest, and Chaos fleets are almost fast as the Eldar and almost strong as the Tau
-> And of course themongolian horde Tyrannid fleet can get insane numbers, but is the slowest (slightly slower than Ork fleet)
Come to think of it ... While the Tyrannids should not be able to build more than 1 Hive ship at a time (national limit of 1) they should be able to "make more" through combat ... but only via hive ship. For example. If a Hive ship eats another ship, there is a chance to create a new Hive ship. This is the only way (playable)Tyrannids can get more than 1 hive at a time: by using their Hive ship in combat.
--------------------
now onto land combat
All Ork units are pretty weak (except for Nobs and Warlord). Orc Warchief should probably have 2nd highest strength rating (just below Necron and just above Tyrannid Tyrant) ... with all other commanders about 40% the strength of a Tyrannid Tyrant. Correct me if I am wrong of course, but I feel this would be the coolest.
Orks are highly cost effective, but not necessarily "strong". Ork grunt is 80% strength of Imperium Guardsman, and 40-50% strength of Necron grunt (possibly). But about 40-60% the cost of Imperium Guardsman, and no maintenance costs.
not sure if there should be a difference between melee and ranged combat ... but if so, then most ranged combat should just be "1 tile" while most artillery should be "2 tiles". (With Eldar + Imperium at 3 and Tau at 4 -> other than Imperium Basilisk cannon which is also 4 range).
Spaceships should be immune to damage from artillery (as they are ... in space).
Imperium tanks should cost perhaps 3 extra gold per turn, but be easily the best land units in the game (other than Titans and Leviathan type Tyrannid). Tanks should probably have just 1 tile range, with the exception of their super-tank which gets 2 range. As far as strength rating goes ... possibly the size of 2 necron commanders for regular tanks, and 3 necron commanders for the supertank. As a point of reference, the Bloodthirster should be about the strength of a necron commander in this meta-mod. (yes, I know, but aren't they gods? ;p On a serious note, the extra strength of the Necron Commander is to reflect their ability to, um, become temporarily invincible xD -> Sister's of Battle 'super angel' should likely be about the same, if not a bit stronger/andor bonus damage to Chaos units)
Big Picture: Imperium Guardsmen should be the 3rd weakest unit in the game (above Ork grunt, and Tyrannid grunt), while at the same time the least cost effective unit at face value (more expensive than Necron grunt and Space Marine scout) ... but ultimately, considering a mid game to late game Imperium super city, can easily *become* the most cost effective unit in the game. Only 'civilized' unit that causes 0 war weariness
Titans should get 2 range on their super gun, and perhaps have a strength rating of 5 NCs (necron commanders).
meanwhile the Tau have the best end-game units, and throughout the entire tech tree have the best Artillery and Ships.
Chaos Marines: Heretics should get thrown out (chaos fodder units from Dawn of War), and instead their non-marine grunts should become the chaos demons. AKA: Lesser demons should spawn from Warpgates (Planar gate + Obsidian gate rolled into one).
Nice effect of the warp gates the chaos uses ... is that any city on any planet can gate one unit to any other city on any other planet. (sort of like airport lifting over the ocean in Civ IV, only its across "space")
Space Marines: deep strike units get Commando (or treat all land as roads, or will para-drop, or fly like helicopters ... will depend on game mechanics)
Cheapest unit is the scout. Cheaper than Imperial Guardsman but more expensive than Necron Grunt. Relatively weak, somewhat fast, can see invisible units. Can upgrade into "Scout-Assassins" or something. (Space Marine equivalent to the Imperium's vindicare assassins). Yes, normally Scouts can equip sniper rifles etc, but I think separating the unit into two different units is best for now.
Regular marines: Rocket marine (AT infantry), Marines (good vs melee) and Vet Marines (good vs melee and laser inf)
Terminator Marines -> Flanking vs Seige weapons? (some sort of marine should likely have siege flanking) -> Other than that, 2 types, 1 good vs melee, the other good vs vehicles and seige.
Most units should be fairly expensive, but fairly strong as well. Maybe able to take more promotions a la the "great general" promotions of Civ IV. Or all start with the leadership promotion, etc.
Eldar should focus on speed and withdrawal. Most vehicles should be fairly cost effective, but infantry not very cost effective. Relying more on special gimmicks (spells, teleportation, withdrawal, first strikes, healing, illusions, etc) to stay alive. For instance, Alazkan's black mirror spell (harlequins?), high priest heal spell, disease and cure disease spells, escape spell, psionic blast/ring of fire, etc.
Most good Eldar units should likely have a national limit. Yes, all races will have some national limit units (like the commanders), but even Vehicles and Ships should have a nat limit for this race. Fastest non-warp technology. Not sure how to get chaos units to warp unless they can dock in port cities, but yea, Eldar ships have fastest 'natural speed', and therefore can redistribute their military the 2nd fastest (second only to Chaos warp gates).
----------------------
now onto the Cities
Imperium cities can get the highest population (with possible exception of fallow Tyrannids), but take awhile to get there. Can get the best late-game cities, (consider late-game civ with factories hooked up, and this is Imperium late game cities). 2 ring cities
Ork cities grow fast, max out fast, and are best used for whipping/drafting. 1 tile cities.
Consider somewhere between classical whip cities and Renaissance draft cities, but better at either. -> Possibly no anger from whips and drafts.
not a lot of buildings to choose from. new buildings are pretty scattered throughout the tech tree. Best strategy is just to pump the units and keep them coming, until your economy is deep in the red. (likely there should be 1 land unit that is "free" in maintenance, allowing a potential infinite unit supply).
An Imperium military industrial complex (1 super city) should likely be able to build a bigger, more cost effective army than any 3 orcish cities combined (all the factories and such). However, those 3 orcish cities can get started earlier, and the Imperium has to pay for each unit, while orks get grunts for "free".
Imperium tanks should cost perhaps 3 extra gold per turn, but be easily the best units in the game (other than Titans and Leviathan type Tyrannid)
meanwhile the Tau have the best end-game units, and throughout the entire tech tree have the best Artillery and Ships.
Space Marines, Chaos Marines, and Eldar should have "combat centers" rather than cities, which means 1 ring instead of 2. (note: Orks, Necrons, and Tyrannid also have 1-ring cities, but for entirely different reasons)
Now, of these three, the Eldar have the highest GNP (especially science), while the Space marines have the highest MFG. Chaos is more balanced between MFG and Science (but not a lot of "gold producing" buildings, unlike the marines)
Tyrannid great people replaced by "Superspores/biospores" which can be used to bulb techs. (tyrannid should likely have a separate tech tree, or at least different enough functionality that it doesn't matter-> focused on evolution rather than technology)
Space marines should likely only have Great Generals and Great Engineers, while the Eldar have Engineers and Prophets, and the Chaos have Scientists and Generals. Chaos can also have access to Prophets and Engineers, but not as many as either Eldar or Space marines (obviously the generals can also be produced through combat, as opposed to GPP). Eldar engineers produce more science than normal engineers, and their prophets produce a bit of science as well. Net result is eldar can produce more science than Chaos marines.
Imperium and Tau have sizable access to all specialist types (other than artists that don't exist -> replaced by Generals), but their only Great General GPP sources come from one mid-game building each. The military academy and Warrior Shrine respectively.
Upon city capture, most factions gain gold based on building hammers as normal ...
But Tyrannids are different. While still gaining gold as a function of building hammers, they also gain Technology and Spores as a function of enemy population. They gain bonus research and population (in addition to the base value, likely triple the base value) if they choose to raze the city.
Most races can only have 1 commander each. But Imperium can get 2 commanders and the Tyrannid can have 4 hive tyrants.
-> if possible, all current hive tyrants should die if the last hive ship is killed
-> Imperium should likely have 4 lieutenants each, boosted by their particular Commander's promotions (using the Rife great general mechanic). The boost should occur regardless of distance between lieutenant and commander, or if there is a distance, it should be the diameter of a planet (aka must be on the same planet).
All Imperium officer units (2 commanders and 8 lieutenants, plus units with the great general promotion if possible) should produce double great general points if possible.
As i've said earlier, regular spores (through combat) can either add population to a city (or hive ship), be upgraded to units, or instantly add certain buildings to a city (or hive ship).
Super Spores (through GPP points) can be bulbed for a LOT of technology points, and can also be used to create additional hive tyrants?
The Hive Ship produces +100% GPP points, for the purpose of easier Super Spores when starting AND centralized rule (population better spent added to the Hive Ship in most cases). If a person has 2 hive ships, they can "merge" the two together ... basically by having the 1 hive ship "add" to the other to create a building. This building is a World Project otherwise known as "Birthright regained", but instead of being able to re-use your World Spell, the Tyrannids will be able to use their worldspell for the first time ever. This spell is otherwise known as "ardor" and will reset the GPP setting to 0, allowing for MANY new Super Spores.
I am thinking that Super Spores (and, by extension, specialists) may be the primary source of Science for the Tyrannids. 90% of their economy/buildings will be focusing on MFG and occasionally gold/maintenance.
A tyrannid's economy may not have natural inflation, but instead their army size inflation may eventually require them to either continue to capture new cities (for the capture gold) or be forced to delete some of their units in order to curb the expenses (we will abstract these expenses to mean the Tyrannid's feasting on the total natural resources they have aquired). -> And deleting these units is abstracted to parts of the army dying out as they begin to starve.
Tyrannids would naturally have spy units, with no actual combat abilities, namely the hybrids or whatever you call them. These spy units can be used to cause "city revolt" when the fleet grows near, in order to establish a beach head (Tyrannid have no natural orbital bombardment capabilities, so city revolts make invasions much easier). -> I mean, of course they could bombard the city with cannon fodder ... the Hive has a cargo of 20 and each ship it creates as a cargo of 5-10 depending, and newly created units from the hive are deposited into any one of these cargo holds ... but that is a LOT of hammers wasted. Better to send an invisible spy on an invisible ship, send it to the planet ahead of time ... and when the time is right, use a city revolt.
Inquisitors are the only units that can see and eliminate such spies. Races that have an inquisitor in some form (Imperium, Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Tao, and Necron)
For Tao, Necron, and Eldar, the ONLY inquisitor unit is the commander, making this an extremely hard form of infiltration to detect. Only high-level demons of the Chaos legion can detect it (a commander that has leveled up enough, and decided to evolve into a demon prince ... in order to give a new commander a chance to prove himself) -> commanders (nat limit 1) can upgrade into demon princes (no limit) at level 6. Also, commanders can turn themselves into a Bloodthirster (same unit, different art and new promos-> via spell instead of upgrade), and actual demon lords have a very low chance of spawning in via warp gate if the right buildings have been built. In this case, Abaddon the Destroyer counts as a demon lord.
So to recap, Necron, Tau, and Eldar commanders (1 each), and Demon Princes, Demon Lords, and Bloodthirsters are the "Inquisitors" for non-humans.
Meanwhile, regular inquisitors, which can be built normally, are the inquisitors for the three Human factions. (While Grey Knights get bonus vs demons and tyrannid, they do not count as inquisitors for this purpose). The "Inquisitor" commander type (default for Sisters, optional for Imperium and Marines) also counts as an Inquisitor.
The only other invisible unit is the corrupter/or whatever you wanna call it. This is an invisible missionary for the Chaos clan, which also uses an invisible ship (these invisible ships cannot EVER be detected, and have 0 strength, by the way), can then be let off in rival territory (<bmoverival>1<bmoverival>) and can spread the Chaos religion.
Chaos religion causes ... BAD ASS THINGS ... to happen to non-chaos cities. Think Muris Clan goblin events x10 ... mixed in with some appocalyptic horsemen 'maybe' appearing.
Most races have 2 options of dealing with this:
1) send in an inquisitor
2) exterminatus (abandon the city)
first option takes a hell of a lot longer, especially if you have only one inquisitor and he is half way across the galaxy ... but the second option gives a global happiness penalty. (possibly temporary, but certainly long lasting). Interesting decisions
The Eldar should have a rather crippling (but fortunate) civic that prevents foreign religion spread. This would be a good thing to do once one or two of your cities have turned chaos, in order to have time for inquisitor to visit all affected cities and cure them.
The Tao have a reduced chance for missionary events to succeed in all cities, which is sort of a soft cap against this tactic.
Human races obviously have an ability to produce multiple inquisitors, so they get no "special defense" against this tactic, other than the obvious fact that they have access to the only hard counter in the game (an inquisitor in every city) ... but of course this can be a sizable hammer investment ...
Honestly, the worst Chaos event is probably not a barbarian Demon Lord showing up, but instead for the city to flip to the Chaos faction. At least, if its a bad-ass city that would be BAD if it fell into the wrong hands ...
In scenarios where the Imperium is this MASSIVE BEHEMOTH of a neutral faction, their AI should likely have Exterminatus as the default response (5 turns after infection, in case there is an inquisitor nearby with "remove religions" AI turned on)
Tau and Eldar would be the late game civs ... while Orks would be the early game rushers.
(Orks need less tech for spacetravel, but obviously don't do it as well)
Tanks, Titans, and other Seige equipment should probably have a chance of being captured. Well, capturing a Titan would probably tricky as all hell/ next to impossible, but maybe with enough techpriests .... (I'd say Orks, Marines, Chaos, Imperium, Sisters of Battle, Tau, Eldar -> All races that can capture other's 'machine tech'). Maybe Orks should be limited to capturing tanks and spaceships.
As far as that goes, perhaps Tyrannid should be able to capture spaceships (derelects?)
Tao/Eldar -> science
Eldar -> teleportation
Orks -> food + MFG (super efficient whips and drafts)
Imperium -> best maintenance (Organized Traitx1.5, Courthouse UB), best overall armada
-> lighthouse turns into "space dock" -> Their spacedock UB should give faster ship production similar to Drydock ... they have the 3rdor4th best ships in the Galaxy and can produce the LARGEST fleet (other than perhaps Tyrannid of course)
and while Imperium fleets are the largest, Eldar fleets are the fastest, Tau fleets are the strongest, and Chaos fleets are almost fast as the Eldar and almost strong as the Tau
-> And of course the
Come to think of it ... While the Tyrannids should not be able to build more than 1 Hive ship at a time (national limit of 1) they should be able to "make more" through combat ... but only via hive ship. For example. If a Hive ship eats another ship, there is a chance to create a new Hive ship. This is the only way (playable)Tyrannids can get more than 1 hive at a time: by using their Hive ship in combat.
--------------------
now onto land combat
All Ork units are pretty weak (except for Nobs and Warlord). Orc Warchief should probably have 2nd highest strength rating (just below Necron and just above Tyrannid Tyrant) ... with all other commanders about 40% the strength of a Tyrannid Tyrant. Correct me if I am wrong of course, but I feel this would be the coolest
. Orks are highly cost effective, but not necessarily "strong". Ork grunt is 80% strength of Imperium Guardsman, and 40-50% strength of Necron grunt (possibly). But about 40-60% the cost of Imperium Guardsman, and no maintenance costs.
not sure if there should be a difference between melee and ranged combat ... but if so, then most ranged combat should just be "1 tile" while most artillery should be "2 tiles". (With Eldar + Imperium at 3 and Tau at 4 -> other than Imperium Basilisk cannon which is also 4 range).
Spaceships should be immune to damage from artillery (as they are ... in space).
Imperium tanks should cost perhaps 3 extra gold per turn, but be easily the best land units in the game (other than Titans and Leviathan type Tyrannid). Tanks should probably have just 1 tile range, with the exception of their super-tank which gets 2 range. As far as strength rating goes ... possibly the size of 2 necron commanders for regular tanks, and 3 necron commanders for the supertank. As a point of reference, the Bloodthirster should be about the strength of a necron commander in this meta-mod. (yes, I know, but aren't they gods? ;p On a serious note, the extra strength of the Necron Commander is to reflect their ability to, um, become temporarily invincible xD -> Sister's of Battle 'super angel' should likely be about the same, if not a bit stronger/andor bonus damage to Chaos units)
Big Picture: Imperium Guardsmen should be the 3rd weakest unit in the game (above Ork grunt, and Tyrannid grunt), while at the same time the least cost effective unit at face value (more expensive than Necron grunt and Space Marine scout) ... but ultimately, considering a mid game to late game Imperium super city, can easily *become* the most cost effective unit in the game. Only 'civilized' unit that causes 0 war weariness
Titans should get 2 range on their super gun, and perhaps have a strength rating of 5 NCs (necron commanders).
meanwhile the Tau have the best end-game units, and throughout the entire tech tree have the best Artillery and Ships.
Chaos Marines: Heretics should get thrown out (chaos fodder units from Dawn of War), and instead their non-marine grunts should become the chaos demons. AKA: Lesser demons should spawn from Warpgates (Planar gate + Obsidian gate rolled into one).
Nice effect of the warp gates the chaos uses ... is that any city on any planet can gate one unit to any other city on any other planet. (sort of like airport lifting over the ocean in Civ IV, only its across "space")
Space Marines: deep strike units get Commando (or treat all land as roads, or will para-drop, or fly like helicopters ... will depend on game mechanics)
Cheapest unit is the scout. Cheaper than Imperial Guardsman but more expensive than Necron Grunt. Relatively weak, somewhat fast, can see invisible units. Can upgrade into "Scout-Assassins" or something. (Space Marine equivalent to the Imperium's vindicare assassins). Yes, normally Scouts can equip sniper rifles etc, but I think separating the unit into two different units is best for now.
Regular marines: Rocket marine (AT infantry), Marines (good vs melee) and Vet Marines (good vs melee and laser inf)
Terminator Marines -> Flanking vs Seige weapons? (some sort of marine should likely have siege flanking) -> Other than that, 2 types, 1 good vs melee, the other good vs vehicles and seige.
Most units should be fairly expensive, but fairly strong as well. Maybe able to take more promotions a la the "great general" promotions of Civ IV. Or all start with the leadership promotion, etc.
Eldar should focus on speed and withdrawal. Most vehicles should be fairly cost effective, but infantry not very cost effective. Relying more on special gimmicks (spells, teleportation, withdrawal, first strikes, healing, illusions, etc) to stay alive. For instance, Alazkan's black mirror spell (harlequins?), high priest heal spell, disease and cure disease spells, escape spell, psionic blast/ring of fire, etc.
Most good Eldar units should likely have a national limit. Yes, all races will have some national limit units (like the commanders), but even Vehicles and Ships should have a nat limit for this race. Fastest non-warp technology. Not sure how to get chaos units to warp unless they can dock in port cities, but yea, Eldar ships have fastest 'natural speed', and therefore can redistribute their military the 2nd fastest (second only to Chaos warp gates).
----------------------
now onto the Cities
Imperium cities can get the highest population (with possible exception of fallow Tyrannids), but take awhile to get there. Can get the best late-game cities, (consider late-game civ with factories hooked up, and this is Imperium late game cities). 2 ring cities
Ork cities grow fast, max out fast, and are best used for whipping/drafting. 1 tile cities.
Consider somewhere between classical whip cities and Renaissance draft cities, but better at either. -> Possibly no anger from whips and drafts.
not a lot of buildings to choose from. new buildings are pretty scattered throughout the tech tree. Best strategy is just to pump the units and keep them coming, until your economy is deep in the red. (likely there should be 1 land unit that is "free" in maintenance, allowing a potential infinite unit supply).
An Imperium military industrial complex (1 super city) should likely be able to build a bigger, more cost effective army than any 3 orcish cities combined (all the factories and such). However, those 3 orcish cities can get started earlier, and the Imperium has to pay for each unit, while orks get grunts for "free".
Imperium tanks should cost perhaps 3 extra gold per turn, but be easily the best units in the game (other than Titans and Leviathan type Tyrannid)
meanwhile the Tau have the best end-game units, and throughout the entire tech tree have the best Artillery and Ships.
Space Marines, Chaos Marines, and Eldar should have "combat centers" rather than cities, which means 1 ring instead of 2. (note: Orks, Necrons, and Tyrannid also have 1-ring cities, but for entirely different reasons)
Now, of these three, the Eldar have the highest GNP (especially science), while the Space marines have the highest MFG. Chaos is more balanced between MFG and Science (but not a lot of "gold producing" buildings, unlike the marines)
Tyrannid great people replaced by "Superspores/biospores" which can be used to bulb techs. (tyrannid should likely have a separate tech tree, or at least different enough functionality that it doesn't matter-> focused on evolution rather than technology)
Space marines should likely only have Great Generals and Great Engineers, while the Eldar have Engineers and Prophets, and the Chaos have Scientists and Generals. Chaos can also have access to Prophets and Engineers, but not as many as either Eldar or Space marines (obviously the generals can also be produced through combat, as opposed to GPP). Eldar engineers produce more science than normal engineers, and their prophets produce a bit of science as well. Net result is eldar can produce more science than Chaos marines.
Imperium and Tau have sizable access to all specialist types (other than artists that don't exist -> replaced by Generals), but their only Great General GPP sources come from one mid-game building each. The military academy and Warrior Shrine respectively.
Upon city capture, most factions gain gold based on building hammers as normal ...
But Tyrannids are different. While still gaining gold as a function of building hammers, they also gain Technology and Spores as a function of enemy population. They gain bonus research and population (in addition to the base value, likely triple the base value) if they choose to raze the city.
Most races can only have 1 commander each. But Imperium can get 2 commanders and the Tyrannid can have 4 hive tyrants.
-> if possible, all current hive tyrants should die if the last hive ship is killed
-> Imperium should likely have 4 lieutenants each, boosted by their particular Commander's promotions (using the Rife great general mechanic). The boost should occur regardless of distance between lieutenant and commander, or if there is a distance, it should be the diameter of a planet (aka must be on the same planet).
All Imperium officer units (2 commanders and 8 lieutenants, plus units with the great general promotion if possible) should produce double great general points if possible.
As i've said earlier, regular spores (through combat) can either add population to a city (or hive ship), be upgraded to units, or instantly add certain buildings to a city (or hive ship).
Super Spores (through GPP points) can be bulbed for a LOT of technology points, and can also be used to create additional hive tyrants?
The Hive Ship produces +100% GPP points, for the purpose of easier Super Spores when starting AND centralized rule (population better spent added to the Hive Ship in most cases). If a person has 2 hive ships, they can "merge" the two together ... basically by having the 1 hive ship "add" to the other to create a building. This building is a World Project otherwise known as "Birthright regained", but instead of being able to re-use your World Spell, the Tyrannids will be able to use their worldspell for the first time ever. This spell is otherwise known as "ardor" and will reset the GPP setting to 0, allowing for MANY new Super Spores.
I am thinking that Super Spores (and, by extension, specialists) may be the primary source of Science for the Tyrannids. 90% of their economy/buildings will be focusing on MFG and occasionally gold/maintenance.
A tyrannid's economy may not have natural inflation, but instead their army size inflation may eventually require them to either continue to capture new cities (for the capture gold) or be forced to delete some of their units in order to curb the expenses (we will abstract these expenses to mean the Tyrannid's feasting on the total natural resources they have aquired). -> And deleting these units is abstracted to parts of the army dying out as they begin to starve.
Tyrannids would naturally have spy units, with no actual combat abilities, namely the hybrids or whatever you call them. These spy units can be used to cause "city revolt" when the fleet grows near, in order to establish a beach head (Tyrannid have no natural orbital bombardment capabilities, so city revolts make invasions much easier). -> I mean, of course they could bombard the city with cannon fodder ... the Hive has a cargo of 20 and each ship it creates as a cargo of 5-10 depending, and newly created units from the hive are deposited into any one of these cargo holds ... but that is a LOT of hammers wasted. Better to send an invisible spy on an invisible ship, send it to the planet ahead of time ... and when the time is right, use a city revolt.
Inquisitors are the only units that can see and eliminate such spies. Races that have an inquisitor in some form (Imperium, Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Tao, and Necron)
For Tao, Necron, and Eldar, the ONLY inquisitor unit is the commander, making this an extremely hard form of infiltration to detect. Only high-level demons of the Chaos legion can detect it (a commander that has leveled up enough, and decided to evolve into a demon prince ... in order to give a new commander a chance to prove himself) -> commanders (nat limit 1) can upgrade into demon princes (no limit) at level 6. Also, commanders can turn themselves into a Bloodthirster (same unit, different art and new promos-> via spell instead of upgrade), and actual demon lords have a very low chance of spawning in via warp gate if the right buildings have been built. In this case, Abaddon the Destroyer counts as a demon lord.
So to recap, Necron, Tau, and Eldar commanders (1 each), and Demon Princes, Demon Lords, and Bloodthirsters are the "Inquisitors" for non-humans.
Meanwhile, regular inquisitors, which can be built normally, are the inquisitors for the three Human factions. (While Grey Knights get bonus vs demons and tyrannid, they do not count as inquisitors for this purpose). The "Inquisitor" commander type (default for Sisters, optional for Imperium and Marines) also counts as an Inquisitor.
The only other invisible unit is the corrupter/or whatever you wanna call it. This is an invisible missionary for the Chaos clan, which also uses an invisible ship (these invisible ships cannot EVER be detected, and have 0 strength, by the way), can then be let off in rival territory (<bmoverival>1<bmoverival>) and can spread the Chaos religion.
Chaos religion causes ... BAD ASS THINGS ... to happen to non-chaos cities. Think Muris Clan goblin events x10 ... mixed in with some appocalyptic horsemen 'maybe' appearing.
Most races have 2 options of dealing with this:
1) send in an inquisitor
2) exterminatus (abandon the city)
first option takes a hell of a lot longer, especially if you have only one inquisitor and he is half way across the galaxy ... but the second option gives a global happiness penalty. (possibly temporary, but certainly long lasting). Interesting decisions
The Eldar should have a rather crippling (but fortunate) civic that prevents foreign religion spread. This would be a good thing to do once one or two of your cities have turned chaos, in order to have time for inquisitor to visit all affected cities and cure them.
The Tao have a reduced chance for missionary events to succeed in all cities, which is sort of a soft cap against this tactic.
Human races obviously have an ability to produce multiple inquisitors, so they get no "special defense" against this tactic, other than the obvious fact that they have access to the only hard counter in the game (an inquisitor in every city) ... but of course this can be a sizable hammer investment ...
Honestly, the worst Chaos event is probably not a barbarian Demon Lord showing up, but instead for the city to flip to the Chaos faction. At least, if its a bad-ass city that would be BAD if it fell into the wrong hands ...
In scenarios where the Imperium is this MASSIVE BEHEMOTH of a neutral faction, their AI should likely have Exterminatus as the default response (5 turns after infection, in case there is an inquisitor nearby with "remove religions" AI turned on)
Spaceship Movement proposal.
So that we don't have to make space "MASSIVE" how about we simply reduce spaceship movement times? This could enable the 'feel' of long space flights without the need for super huge maps.
min distance between planets should be planet diameter +1, for obvious reasons.
I would propose largest planet have D=9 so min distance = 10 tiles.
This would enable most planets to have 2 or 3 cities on average, iirc.
The standard map would probably be a Toroidal Map with 2 star systems (2 groupings of planets separated by some distance of empty space (greater than the min distance x 1.5)
40x mod would obviously be super fun to play on massive maps with more than just 2 star systems though
------------
now onto the Spaceship proposal
Tyrannid fleet= 1 movement
Ork fleet = 2 movement
most fleets = 3 movement
chaos fleet = 5 movement
eldar fleet = 7 movement
and this never increases
-------
Now, I would propose that most fleets should have scout ships and fast transports of 5 movement (fast transports having cargo space of 1), while all chaos ships have 5 movement (other than capital ships which move at 3 like the rest of them) meaning they have no need for fast transports, and their scout ships are only usable because they are cheap (like the 1 move goblins of clan of embers. only use is their low hammer cost). Meanwhile Eldar scoutships/fast transports should have 10 movement.-> that is a potential jump from one world to another, within a single turn.
Tyrannid spy ships should have cargo space of 3 (can carry 3 hybrids), and movement of 5. Also, these would be 0 strength and invisible. Undetectable. These would double as both scout ships and fast transports for tyrannid, yet they can only carry spies and great people. (aka hybrids and super spores).
Now that I think about it, there should probably be 2 eldar scout ship types.
one that has 10 move, and a cargo of 3. and 100% combat vs other scoutships (other than the invisible ones of course)
one that has 15 move, and a cargo of 1. And is invisible
--------------
most scout ships -> 5 tiles (cargo space of 1, any unit type)
tyrannid scout ship -> 5 tiles and invisible (cargo space of 3, spies + great people only)
chaos missionary ship -> 5 tiles and invisible (cargo space of 1, missionaries only)
eldar combat scout -> 10 tiles (cargo space of 3, any unit type), +100% vs scoutship unitclass
eldar stealth scout -> 15 tiles and invisible (cargo space of 1, any type)
-
(all invisible ships have a strength of 0, like spies and missionaries)
-
So that we don't have to make space "MASSIVE" how about we simply reduce spaceship movement times? This could enable the 'feel' of long space flights without the need for super huge maps.
min distance between planets should be planet diameter +1, for obvious reasons.
I would propose largest planet have D=9 so min distance = 10 tiles.
This would enable most planets to have 2 or 3 cities on average, iirc.
The standard map would probably be a Toroidal Map with 2 star systems (2 groupings of planets separated by some distance of empty space (greater than the min distance x 1.5)
40x mod would obviously be super fun to play on massive maps with more than just 2 star systems though
------------
now onto the Spaceship proposal
Tyrannid fleet= 1 movement
Ork fleet = 2 movement
most fleets = 3 movement
chaos fleet = 5 movement
eldar fleet = 7 movement
and this never increases
-------
Now, I would propose that most fleets should have scout ships and fast transports of 5 movement (fast transports having cargo space of 1), while all chaos ships have 5 movement (other than capital ships which move at 3 like the rest of them) meaning they have no need for fast transports, and their scout ships are only usable because they are cheap (like the 1 move goblins of clan of embers. only use is their low hammer cost). Meanwhile Eldar scoutships/fast transports should have 10 movement.-> that is a potential jump from one world to another, within a single turn.
Tyrannid spy ships should have cargo space of 3 (can carry 3 hybrids), and movement of 5. Also, these would be 0 strength and invisible. Undetectable. These would double as both scout ships and fast transports for tyrannid, yet they can only carry spies and great people. (aka hybrids and super spores).
Now that I think about it, there should probably be 2 eldar scout ship types.
one that has 10 move, and a cargo of 3. and 100% combat vs other scoutships (other than the invisible ones of course)
one that has 15 move, and a cargo of 1. And is invisible
--------------
most scout ships -> 5 tiles (cargo space of 1, any unit type)
tyrannid scout ship -> 5 tiles and invisible (cargo space of 3, spies + great people only)
chaos missionary ship -> 5 tiles and invisible (cargo space of 1, missionaries only)
eldar combat scout -> 10 tiles (cargo space of 3, any unit type), +100% vs scoutship unitclass
eldar stealth scout -> 15 tiles and invisible (cargo space of 1, any type)
-
(all invisible ships have a strength of 0, like spies and missionaries)
-
if there is a way to reduce city visibility to 1 tile (or even zero tiles) that might be good as well
spaceships should also likely have a visibility of only 1. maybe 2 for certain scoutships.
Nothing represents the vastness of space better than utter darkness.
-
spaceships should also likely have a visibility of only 1. maybe 2 for certain scoutships.
Nothing represents the vastness of space better than utter darkness.
-
Tech tree thoughts + unit balance + tyrannid spores
I should think that the Imperium of Man should get the most usage out of the tech tree, followed by Eldar and Tau, and then the other races.
What do I mean by this? Imperium gets the most toys, basically a toy for every tech, while most Eldar and Tau toys do not unlock until the later half of the tree.
The Orks should have "some" incentive to tech past the first half of the tech tree, like being able to capture tanks and titans, plus building war-beasts ... but for the most part they should be content with the first half, or even the first quarter, of the tech tree.
Original Ork grunt should start out needing maintenance, but then later on in the techtree they upgrade into an "identical" grunt, only this time they require no maintenance
Lets look at some numbers (assuming we use higher strengths, like rife 4.0, in order to have more easy unit balance).
MS(melee strength), RS(ranged strength), C (approximate hammer cost)
Ork Choppa
MS:10, RS:0, C:50
Ork Shoota
MS: 8, RS: 5, C:100
Imperial Guardsman
MS: 6*, RS: 10, C:80 + City Garrison 1
Necron Grunt
MS: 12**, RS: 10, C: 60 + March
Tyrannid Grunt
MS: 6, RS: 0-2, C: 20
* and **Open to debate.
*I'm thinking somewhere between 6-8
**I'm thinking somewhere between 8 - 12
----
Now, at first glance you might think the Necron Grunts are OP ... but remember, the Imperium will have Factories et al (and drafts if necessary, but not advised), while the Orks will have whips and drafts. Necrons will have none of this. Just an undying army at a decent cost.
Also, necrons will probably start with a building called "dormant monolith" which decreases production by 50%. A quarter through the tech tree or so, they should be able to build "awakened monolith" which brings production back to 1:1.
I've thought about making the Necrons fallow (like the Tyrannids), but ultimately I think this would be the wrong direction. Gaining pop normally can be akin to "awakening", and as they cannot whip or draft, they have no reason to "regrow" but instead all of their cities only grow once. (sort of like a newbie civ player that hasn't learned about slavery + granaries yet)
Now, why should Tyrannids be fallow you ask? Well simply, the hive needs to constantly move. If they stay in one spot they will consume everything and then dry up. Therefore, the only way they can gain strength is by continuing to consume new worlds. Now, for balance reasons there should always be a small chance for spores (new population) to spawn upon the Hive Ship (moving capital). These spores can become either population or buildings (well, and units too but who cares about that for now). Economically speaking, the best decision is pop at first, and then buildings. That way, your pop can now run specialists due to your buildings, and create GPP to create "Super Spores" which can be used to bulb technologies ... which is, while not the only way Nids can tech, the most useful/fastest. (most likely).
Now ... why should spores be able to upgrade to units? you say. Why is that all efficient? you say. yes, yes I know ... Infernals was always a bad play to upgrade manes into units.
WHY? Why is manes-> units a crappy decision? (well, um ... because its bad for the economy?)
WRONG! That is only part of the answer. The correct answer is that YOU NEED MANES IN A CITY TO UPGRADE THEM TO DAMN UNITS! By the time they are in a city, its always the better decision to add them as population. The 'hurry production' is also f*cked, because manes are a very limited source (in most cases) while hammers are potentially infinite. The only reason one should use manes to hurry production is if, like in the Nids case, they can instantaneously create very expensive buildings. Now, for the Nids, all buildings need to be expensive in order to force the player (or AI) to use spores for the creation of such buildings. Why? Because Nids need to feed. Having them sit in a dark corner of space, building a massive army out of thin air, is no fun for anyone. A nid's economy rises off the flesh and bony bits of others.
Now, onto the question of why spores can upgrade into units.
1) we will use the Doviello mechanic to allow spores to upgrade in the middle of combat. Yes, no matter where that spore is, they can upgrade to any unit you can afford. Whether a nid gruntling (0 gold) or something much stronger.
Now, some units can only be built by hammers (such as a Hive Ship if the current one has died, or the Hive Tyrants), yet other units can ONLY be created through spore upgrades (like Leviathan units, et al --> yea, those things that are as powerful as Titans? Those guys )
I should think that the Imperium of Man should get the most usage out of the tech tree, followed by Eldar and Tau, and then the other races.
What do I mean by this? Imperium gets the most toys, basically a toy for every tech, while most Eldar and Tau toys do not unlock until the later half of the tree.
The Orks should have "some" incentive to tech past the first half of the tech tree, like being able to capture tanks and titans, plus building war-beasts ... but for the most part they should be content with the first half, or even the first quarter, of the tech tree.
Original Ork grunt should start out needing maintenance, but then later on in the techtree they upgrade into an "identical" grunt, only this time they require no maintenance
Lets look at some numbers (assuming we use higher strengths, like rife 4.0, in order to have more easy unit balance).
MS(melee strength), RS(ranged strength), C (approximate hammer cost)
Ork Choppa
MS:10, RS:0, C:50
Ork Shoota
MS: 8, RS: 5, C:100
Imperial Guardsman
MS: 6*, RS: 10, C:80 + City Garrison 1
Necron Grunt
MS: 12**, RS: 10, C: 60 + March
Tyrannid Grunt
MS: 6, RS: 0-2, C: 20
* and **Open to debate.
*I'm thinking somewhere between 6-8
**I'm thinking somewhere between 8 - 12
----
Now, at first glance you might think the Necron Grunts are OP ... but remember, the Imperium will have Factories et al (and drafts if necessary, but not advised), while the Orks will have whips and drafts. Necrons will have none of this. Just an undying army at a decent cost.
Also, necrons will probably start with a building called "dormant monolith" which decreases production by 50%. A quarter through the tech tree or so, they should be able to build "awakened monolith" which brings production back to 1:1.
I've thought about making the Necrons fallow (like the Tyrannids), but ultimately I think this would be the wrong direction. Gaining pop normally can be akin to "awakening", and as they cannot whip or draft, they have no reason to "regrow" but instead all of their cities only grow once. (sort of like a newbie civ player that hasn't learned about slavery + granaries yet
)Now, why should Tyrannids be fallow you ask? Well simply, the hive needs to constantly move. If they stay in one spot they will consume everything and then dry up. Therefore, the only way they can gain strength is by continuing to consume new worlds. Now, for balance reasons there should always be a small chance for spores (new population) to spawn upon the Hive Ship (moving capital). These spores can become either population or buildings (well, and units too but who cares about that for now). Economically speaking, the best decision is pop at first, and then buildings. That way, your pop can now run specialists due to your buildings, and create GPP to create "Super Spores" which can be used to bulb technologies ... which is, while not the only way Nids can tech, the most useful/fastest. (most likely).
Now ... why should spores be able to upgrade to units? you say. Why is that all efficient? you say. yes, yes I know ... Infernals was always a bad play to upgrade manes into units.
WHY? Why is manes-> units a crappy decision? (well, um ... because its bad for the economy?)
WRONG! That is only part of the answer. The correct answer is that YOU NEED MANES IN A CITY TO UPGRADE THEM TO DAMN UNITS! By the time they are in a city, its always the better decision to add them as population. The 'hurry production' is also f*cked, because manes are a very limited source (in most cases) while hammers are potentially infinite. The only reason one should use manes to hurry production is if, like in the Nids case, they can instantaneously create very expensive buildings. Now, for the Nids, all buildings need to be expensive in order to force the player (or AI) to use spores for the creation of such buildings. Why? Because Nids need to feed. Having them sit in a dark corner of space, building a massive army out of thin air, is no fun for anyone. A nid's economy rises off the flesh and bony bits of others.
Now, onto the question of why spores can upgrade into units.
1) we will use the Doviello mechanic to allow spores to upgrade in the middle of combat. Yes, no matter where that spore is, they can upgrade to any unit you can afford. Whether a nid gruntling (0 gold) or something much stronger.
Now, some units can only be built by hammers (such as a Hive Ship if the current one has died, or the Hive Tyrants), yet other units can ONLY be created through spore upgrades (like Leviathan units, et al --> yea, those things that are as powerful as Titans? Those guys
)Back to the tech tree:
Imperial Guard -> Evenly Balanced, 100% tech saturation
Space Marines/Chaos Marines/Sisters of Battle -> Evenly Balanced, 50% tech saturation
Orks -> Early game heavy, 50% tech saturation
Tau -> Late game heavy, 80% tech saturation
Eldar -> Late game heavy, 50% tech saturation
Necron -> Mid game heavy, 30% tech saturation (somewhat fairly balanced, but slightly mid-game heavy I would think: Awakened Monolith + Commander + better Vehicles)
Tyrannids -> Who the H*ll knows
Tech saturation is basically how many toys they get to play with. This includes buildings, units, etc. While the Eldar will have their fair share of units (even if limited in number) their building selection will be comparatively limited.
Meanwhile, the Imperial Guard will have the highest number of buildings in the game, while their unit diversity is relatively low*.
*Doesn't mean a d*mn thing. Just a Guesstimate. These are ALL just guidelines, and therefore guestimates
-
Imperial Guard -> Evenly Balanced, 100% tech saturation
Space Marines/Chaos Marines/Sisters of Battle -> Evenly Balanced, 50% tech saturation
Orks -> Early game heavy, 50% tech saturation
Tau -> Late game heavy, 80% tech saturation
Eldar -> Late game heavy, 50% tech saturation
Necron -> Mid game heavy, 30% tech saturation (somewhat fairly balanced, but slightly mid-game heavy I would think: Awakened Monolith + Commander + better Vehicles)
Tyrannids -> Who the H*ll knows
Tech saturation is basically how many toys they get to play with. This includes buildings, units, etc. While the Eldar will have their fair share of units (even if limited in number) their building selection will be comparatively limited.
Meanwhile, the Imperial Guard will have the highest number of buildings in the game, while their unit diversity is relatively low*.
*Doesn't mean a d*mn thing. Just a Guesstimate. These are ALL just guidelines, and therefore guestimates
-
Space ship order of appearance (judged by beakers needed assuming no beelines)*
*as a disclaimer, no tech tree has been created.
1) Tyrannid infestor ship
2) Chaos missionary ship
3) Ork Scout ship
4) Ork fleet
5) Most Fleets + Eldar combat scout
6) Tau and Eldar Capital ships (Nat limit 4 each)
7) Most scout ships, including Eldar stealth scout
10) Tau and Eldar "Super Capital" ships (Nat limit 1 each), + Imperial capital ships (Nat limit 4)
*as a disclaimer, no tech tree has been created.
1) Tyrannid infestor ship
2) Chaos missionary ship
3) Ork Scout ship
4) Ork fleet
5) Most Fleets + Eldar combat scout
6) Tau and Eldar Capital ships (Nat limit 4 each)
7) Most scout ships, including Eldar stealth scout
10) Tau and Eldar "Super Capital" ships (Nat limit 1 each), + Imperial capital ships (Nat limit 4)
Land units order of appearance:
1) Ork Choppas, Nidlings, Tao Militia, Imperial Guardsmen, Marine Scouts, any Necrons + chaos demons that happen to spawn
2) Ork Shootas, Nobs, Kaskren Squads, buildable Necron grunts, Marines
3) Imperial Tanks, Vet marines, Deepstrike Squads, Necron Immortals, Basic Vehicles(all races), regular Inquisitors (humans), Monolith awakened.
4) Terminator Squads, Eldar weapon platforms, Eldar Walkers, Harlequins, Commander(all races)
5) Imperial Super Tank, Advanced Vehicles (Eldar + Tau), Psyker Commanders(eldar + humans, + Tao?), Inquisitor Commanders(all humans)
6) Advanced Artillery(Basilisks), Planetary Fighers(if we can make it so they cannot leave the planet, or at least have to use transport craft), and Titans.
-------
The game with "Planets" makes planetary combat a crowded endeavor at best. Therefore it would seem that in most cases, you either lose the planet, or you keep it in its entirety. (even if it has as many as 3-4 cities on it)
Therefore defensive garrisons are very important (unless you are confident that you will not get snuck up on).
Chaos missionaries can be a real pain at any stage of the game. Tyrannid spies can turn the tide of any battle (all that defensive bonus goes bye bye, + damaged units)
Meanwhile, maps with only land have a completely different dynamic. none of the interesting space dynamic ... but land battles will be FAR more interesting in this setting.
Inland Sea would be physically impossible given this setting ... not sure if we should re-arrange each mapscript to give a different algorythm of planetary systems, or just make a few new mapscripts plus some pre-made maps and label all normal maps as "unofficial".
Alternatively, one could play on a continents map and just pretend it is in some parallel Disgaea like universe where nothing makes any sense. (this actually sounds rather fun
)
1) Ork Choppas, Nidlings, Tao Militia, Imperial Guardsmen, Marine Scouts, any Necrons + chaos demons that happen to spawn
2) Ork Shootas, Nobs, Kaskren Squads, buildable Necron grunts, Marines
3) Imperial Tanks, Vet marines, Deepstrike Squads, Necron Immortals, Basic Vehicles(all races), regular Inquisitors (humans), Monolith awakened.
4) Terminator Squads, Eldar weapon platforms, Eldar Walkers, Harlequins, Commander(all races)
5) Imperial Super Tank, Advanced Vehicles (Eldar + Tau), Psyker Commanders(eldar + humans, + Tao?), Inquisitor Commanders(all humans)
6) Advanced Artillery(Basilisks), Planetary Fighers(if we can make it so they cannot leave the planet, or at least have to use transport craft), and Titans.
-------
The game with "Planets" makes planetary combat a crowded endeavor at best. Therefore it would seem that in most cases, you either lose the planet, or you keep it in its entirety. (even if it has as many as 3-4 cities on it)
Therefore defensive garrisons are very important (unless you are confident that you will not get snuck up on).
Chaos missionaries can be a real pain at any stage of the game. Tyrannid spies can turn the tide of any battle (all that defensive bonus goes bye bye, + damaged units)
Meanwhile, maps with only land have a completely different dynamic. none of the interesting space dynamic ... but land battles will be FAR more interesting in this setting.
Inland Sea would be physically impossible given this setting ... not sure if we should re-arrange each mapscript to give a different algorythm of planetary systems, or just make a few new mapscripts plus some pre-made maps and label all normal maps as "unofficial".
Alternatively, one could play on a continents map and just pretend it is in some parallel Disgaea like universe where nothing makes any sense. (this actually sounds rather fun
)Similar threads
