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Warhammer Fantasy Battles

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Ploeperpengel, Aug 14, 2006.

  1. neener

    neener 3DS Max worker bee

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    I think the coders are looking into ways of encouraging lower stack sizes as opposed to forcing them. Leader promotions that affect the same stack, but which aren't cumulative between multiple leaders, for example. That way you could make a big stack when you need to (like when they pass each other on a road) but it wouldn't be advantageous to mass huge armies on the same tile. Nothing is confirmed yet, but I thought I'd mention it.
     
  2. Sisonpyh

    Sisonpyh Prince

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    So how do you guys plan to implement WAAAGH! for Greenskins?

    Anyways, they're obviously not done, but here are my thoughts so far. The Greenskin trait is lacking, especially since they lost agressive. I would propose to add a 'No Anarchy' variable with Greenskin trait. Why? Orcs have a racially linked mind and are fairly religious. They channel their power through WAAAAGH (which is sort of like a religioin in itself). They heavily worship Gork and Mork and believe thos ese Gods (even though they can never figure out which one is which) make them superior to every other race and that they will protect them. Of course there has to be downside; I would propose that Greenskins could not convert to any other religion and not be able to build temples. Besides, Anarchy within the Greenskin social system doesn't make any sense, since, Anarchy is the norm within their culture.

    Maybe give the Greenskins something to represent their Green skins? Like a 5% or 10% inherit defensive bonus on all terrain. Orcs have thick tough green skin which is highly resistent to pain. They can suffer the worst injuries and can continue fighting just as effectively. Thick skull is nice, but it's just a dumbed down Aggressive trait with no building bonus. A dark elf unit with aggressive is just as strong and has a move of 2. No way an Elf should be just as strong the Orc equivalent unit.

    Are Heroes still being planned on? I suggest leaving Azghad as leader and make Grimgor a hero unit maybe?
     
  3. Servo2

    Servo2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
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    I realise that there's still much work to be done but from what I've seen so far I gotta say great work! :)

    I've only played one game so far (with the high elves), no CTDs or anything like that. The only problem I had was that my workers couldnt build camps, quite weird. The AI seemed to be able to though.

    About the Lothern Seaguard, one thing that would be cool and make them more "unique" (dunno if they would be useful though...) would be if it was possible to give them the ability to give ranged support. After all, they're armed with spears and bows (at least they were last time I checked, might have changed since I quit playing). :)

    Anyway, well done guys!
     
  4. SchpailsMan

    SchpailsMan Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
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    189
    Tried it yesterday. I just played a sample game with the Dwarves at warlord level on a normal-size map with only 4 or 5 civs, so I could try out things with little or no pressure. I only played about 150 turns at normal speed, so I didn't get very far. I intend to start a new game at my usual difficulty settings so I can get a better experience of the mod, right now I'll just post "basic" feedback on my first impressions. Note that I'm a former WarHammer RPG player, but not a WarHammer wargame player, so my comments might be biaised towards the role-playing aspect of the background.

    - The title screen is cool :goodjob: I tested without the sounds package, but the intro music is great already. I also liked the various WH images when starting a new game. There's a lot of good art there.

    - I've browsed a bit into the tech tree. It seems pretty good, the different branches look rather well-balanced, all promising to be useful and yet allowing for some specialization. Some techs look like they're currently only placeholders for stuff that's not in yet, and having "empty" techs isn't very good gameplay-wise, but I guess this will all fill up with time. Some documentation will of course be needed, for example so players can understand why some techs are not allowed to research (it makes sense for race-specific religion techs for example, but a little in-game indication of this would still be helpful), but so far it looks promising.

    - I think the first part of the game doesn't give enough build options. Playing as the dwarves (can't remember the name, and I keep refraining from calling them Khazads :D it's been damn too long since I last opened my good old WarHammer RPG sourcebook), I rushed to the dwarven gods tech and after a little time I had completed the few early wonders on that path and all my cities had built a granary, barracks and a forge so that there wasn't anything left to build except settlers, workers and military. It's not like I wouldn't have built some anyway, but you can't keep building cities forever right ? I guess just a few additional early buildings and wonders would help keeping cities busy.

    - I noticed that there were separate techs allowing chaos civs to worship the Chaos gods. I wonder if the same is planned for other gods, such as Ulric, Morr or Shallya. I'm not sure having too many different religions into the mod would be good at all, I'm just asking here.

    - I found it strange that my warriors could get the Woodsman and Junglesman promotions, but not Guerilla. I used fogbusting hill-locked warriors during the whole game, and was sort of frustrated that I could not promote them to guerilla (especially considering I was playing a dwarf civ). Besides than that, the Flagbearer-series of promotions is good, although I'm not sure first strikes is the better way to represent the morale bonus effect of a flag-bearer (then again, from what I've read before I guess a full morale mechanics is under dev for the mod). Also, good catch on separating promotions for forest-based defense and jungle-based defense, it seemed so wrong in Vanilla that a single promotion would allow units to get benefits of terrains as different as forest and jungle. Besides, I always pictured jungle as being untamed, hostile and dangerous, and it felt wrong that training units in scandinavian-type forests would make them so efficient in tropical jungles.

    - a minor change that I found cool : giving spears and axes the same base strengh, AND giving spears a first strike. It makes sense, and certainly adds a bit of strategy here.

    - I don't know if you intend to address this (it's a vanilla thing, and changing this could require a lot of work for little benefit), but I'll mention anyway : sometimes the vanilla engine has trouble dealing with units of 5-10 soldiers. One of my fogbuster unit was on a hill tile, and barbarians would keep arriving from a tile that was on a hill and disposed so that when attacking the barbs would have to move diagonally, cross a river and run along a peak tile that was adjacent to both their tile and mine... anyway, the game engine would sent the warrior soldiers one by one so that simple one-on-one warrior battles took ages to occur (the game engine interrupts everything before all barb warriors get killed of course, but it's annoying nontheless).

    - this one was already mentionned before : workers not being able to build camps is confusing. Building a scout just to build camps is not a real problem, but it's somehow a little annoying, and besides there's only so much a scout is useful for after you've explored the continent you start in. Besides, I didn't check but I guess the AI won't be good at gathering ivory, furs and deer if it can't use workers to claim those.
     
  5. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    The lack of early building options is definitely an issue we hope to resolve.

    Try a game starting in the second era with raging barbs and you'll never have time to build a building. :D
     
  6. Duke van Frost

    Duke van Frost Lunatic Killer Robot

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    I´ll have a look into this one, but there isn´t anything like a hero system implemented rigth now. For now I think I´ll set Valten to a world unit with only one allowed.

    I think we´ll sooner or later take out the stack limitation, because like neener said, we want to make smaller stacks being more benefitial than a simple stack-of-doom (support fire is a start for this), but we don´t want to force players to have small stacks - stack limitations will most probably be only a subsitute solution for now, so I don´t think that the programmers will waste time on debugging it.

    Thanks for your reports, keep 'em coming (that´s why we put out a beta after all) :goodjob:
     
  7. Duke van Frost

    Duke van Frost Lunatic Killer Robot

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    Greenskinz are a special kind of folk. We´re planning on giving them whaagh! as promotions that increase the strength by maybe 5% per other Greenskin unit in the same stack (should be limited to a certain point IMO).

    They will also get animosity which is being worked on right now (that will include things like get 'em, show 'em etc.)

    Last but not least the greenskinz will get a thing called "peaceweariness" which works opposed to the vanilla warweariness - so you got to keep the whaagh! rolling and plundering.

    There will also be some new victory conditions which will be preferred also by Greenskin players (like plundering and cityrazing).

    And we definitely plan on doing a hero system - I can´t imagine a WH game without heroes and champions.
     
  8. Duke van Frost

    Duke van Frost Lunatic Killer Robot

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    Glad you like it :D


    The empty techs will most certainly be filled with some early buildings and maybe some wonders, civics and other things - we don´t plan on having empty techs in the end as that would be useless.

    We´re not really sure what to do with religions right now. If we are able to come up with some really good ideas that would make it so you don´t need to spread you´re religion like in vanilla than more religions would be a good thing and more fitting for WH fluff-wise. Time will show us what to do, hopefully.

    I´ll have a look into this one and fix it. And you´re right about the Flagbearer thing, but I think in the future the Flagbearer promotion will concentrate more on effecting the psychology we´re about to implement.

    Yes, we planned to make the difference between the basic strength of the units not as high as in the vanilla cIV, but instead get more into the rock-paper-scissor-system of it.

    As we are planning to make the mod compatible to only warlords we will most certainly not fix this, because greater unit-sizes are handled better in warlords and so improvements in this direction will maybe not be needed in the future.

    First of all the AI has no problem to get it´s resources connected via camps, but I personaly more and more dislike the idea of scouts building camps instead of workers, mainly because woodelves for example don´t have scouts and their workers can build camps, which makes them even more better than they are right now (with a movement of 2)

    Again thx for the report.
     
  9. CarpeDiem

    CarpeDiem Warlord

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    Jul 3, 2006
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    lol this is completely awesome im going to test it now......imagining a 95% perfect version of this really means i could ejaculate lol geek


    would be cool if fantasy when got to modern era went to 40k! but i just cant wait to play this!
     
  10. Servo2

    Servo2 Chieftain

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    Aug 21, 2006
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    oh, so the "no-camp-workers" was a feature, not a bug. well, I sure feel stupid now..... but I blame my noobishness. :blush: :lol:

    on another matter, you're probably aware of it already but imho it would be better if the incarnations of isha, vaul etc. etc. werent available as mercenaries. :)
     
  11. CarpeDiem

    CarpeDiem Warlord

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    i need to get the soundtrack and having no luck
     
  12. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    Do you mean the link is down?
     
  13. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    Ya know, i was thinking we could step up the challange a bit on the resources and improvement. I suggest someone who is a good at animations and modeling make a little nice feature to this game, this feature is called worker employment. After your worker is built, allow him to make a improvement and work there, like store in there to produce more so that we don't get our city flooded with 9 city workers. Once a worker is stored in that improvement, i like to see new animations, like after a worker have been employed into farming, i see the worker farming the crops and bringing it to the granary, Something like that so that we can continue producing workers to improve that improvement to make it better.
     
  14. seZereth

    seZereth FfH´s art monk(ey)

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    i would love that idea, but you wont find someone to animate that i fear. another option would be, let the worker work an improvement with normal animation, but reduce their scale when doing that, so it would look like they are actually at the improvement... dont know if we can trigger scalechanges by python or sdk.
     
  15. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    that is what i was thinking too, reduce size. This will also prove the workers to become real workers.
     
  16. Gerikes

    Gerikes User of Run-on Sentences.

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    I don't know if you can trigger real-time scaling on the units, but you could probably "convert" the unit into another unit that is exactly the same except for the art_defines has, either the model or in the XML, a much smaller scale.

    They would still behave like a regular unit, however, meaning that if they are threatened to be attacked they will revert back to player control, and also they can be attacked and move around and be selected and such. Although you can change the SDK to change all of that, I don't know if it's worth it, especially since apparently there is the idea floating around that there might at some point be a switch to Warlords (which means redoing some of the SDK code to have it work around any Warlords changes, but still having not seen the Warlords SDK I don't know exactly what this would entail).
     
  17. kodzi

    kodzi civ4_ww2:1939

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    i can record orginaly music with symphinoc orchestra, if you need send me pm. or mail
    kodzi@o2.pl
     
  18. vicentiko

    vicentiko Chieftain

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    Hi, I'm playing with the empire and the game crashes after i finish the turn
    i'm playing last version of Civ (1.61) and with the patch a from warhammer
    i don't have installed the patch that says is against the CTD's for regimments (i don't really know actually what CTD means)

    any idea what could it be?

    i guess i have to attach the saved game but i don't know how, how can i attach my warhammer saved game here?

    thx people
    thx
     
  19. Duke van Frost

    Duke van Frost Lunatic Killer Robot

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    CTD means "crash to desktop" - exactly what you are experiencing.

    You can attach files to your post by clicking on the "go advanced" button, then click on the paper click.
     
  20. vicentiko

    vicentiko Chieftain

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    thx a lot duke (und übrigens, grusse aus Heidelberg!)
    then here is the attached saved game, when i finish the turn, i get a CTD

    PS: I tried the 2nd patch, for no regimments, and i'm still getting that CTD
     

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