Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.0

[embryodead]

@ChaosLord
What do you mean by so few defensive units? There can be only one at a time, like in civ3, since with civ3 rules there is no space for varation.
Why Adv. Mining sticks out? Stonecutting seems more "primitive" tech than Iron Working. Is the "Adv." name a problem?
In 2.0 version there is new tech tree and communication trading is moved to 2nd era (and map trading to late 3rd).

@Dragonlord
Of course I'm up to many changes - I'm working on a completly new version of the mod. There will be more civilopedia for sure, and I'll think of a bit better transport for elves.

 

[ChaosLord]

What I meant by so few defensive units is few are focused on defense, more focused on offense. Besides for dragons and the like, 1/3 (pikeman for various races) is the 'best' defensive unit. I play defensive alot, so I was hoping for at least something not too expensive with a 4 or more defense. You do have more defense boosting buildings though, i've only just started playing so I haven't seen how it works out.

As for Advanced Mining, yeah its the Advanced part that sticks out.
----

Oh, and I had an idea to add more "magic" into the game. A building like "Summoning Circle" or "Wizard's Tower" thats a renamed airport. Then add in creatures with 0 move, but good defense called "Curse" or "Infest" with paradrop ability. So you build them, then drop them into enemy territory. So its like cursing their lands.

Only problem is if AI would use them right, and if 0 move units can be paradropped. But it would be a fun addition. Could also just change it to regular units like Harpys/Rats/etc.. the summon stuff spellcasters could do in Warhammer, just with paradrop.

 

[mrtn]

ChaosLord, I like the "curse" idea.
But I think it would be better to give it move 1, the "Immobile" flag, and the possibility to pillage. If this is implemented then they shouldn't get as high defense as you said, to not make them too dangerous.
I also miss some "heavy" defenders.

 

[embryodead]

@ChaosLord
Again, this makes races more unique and enforces different style of play. Many races have inexpensive units with 4 defense (gunpowder units, treemen, spawns), others like orcs and goblins are stuck with 1.2 spearmen... And yes, you can get up to +50% defense bonus from buildings (apart from city/town/walls bonus).

Adv. Mining gives access to the most rare meteoric metals, so I can't really name them stonecutting or anything like that. Maybe "Meteoric Iron" but I don't really know...

You may see that "airdrop" has already been renamed to "teleport" in labels.txt file. I was experementing with and didn't really succeed (ie. I tried to make teleporting mages). Most ideas are put down because AI can't handle them. Airport has additional problem of giving air trade, which is quite ridiculous in fantasy setting. In 2.0 airlifting is used by chaos - there is a building called "Chaos Gate" which allows "teleporting" of demons (only). So only chaos gets "air trade" (at very late point) which seems acceptable.

BTW I'm posting experimental Blood Bowl game "scenario" in main C&C forum (as soon as CFC file server gets back).

 

[embryodead]

BTW I was thinking of something similiar to curse - ability to "corrupt" land for Chaos - a spell with infinite bombard range and very low bombard value (used to bombard terrain improvements obviously). The problem is that it is way too powerful

 

[mrtn]

BTW, when reading about the Adv Mining here I was reminded about the Warpstone case. In my game the Orcs wanted "Warpstone, or else", and I didn't know if they wanted the resource or the tech. I know you're gonna redo the tech tree, but as a word of caution I think that it's a bad idea when different things has the same name.
I suppose that the easiest thing would be to rename the tech to something else.

Another thing: as it is I think that the spells are too weak. Playing as the wood elves, e g, it's better to use archers than spells, even though the spells have attack 8 and the archers just three. The spells can only take off one or two hit points from a unit, and can't (obviously) retreat. I would probably prefer archers if they cost the same, as it is now the spells just don't cut it IMO.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by mrtn
BTW, when reading about the Adv Mining here I was reminded about the Warpstone case. In my game the Orcs wanted "Warpstone, or else", and I didn't know if they wanted the resource or the tech. I know you're gonna redo the tech tree, but as a word of caution I think that it's a bad idea when different things has the same name.
I suppose that the easiest thing would be to rename the tech to something else.

Well.. you could guess that he wanted tech - I think he couldn't ask for a resource if he doesn't see it Though in the new tech tree, warpstone, gromril and brightstone come all in one tech, now named "Meteoric Iron" (as they all are meteoric). I hope that sounds better than "Adv. Mining". There is also Coal tech that gives Coal resource. I may rename the tech to "Fossil Fuel", but it sounds sort of modern to me.

I also had some other problems with tech names ie. the tech that gives communication trading. Normally all that stuff came with Diplomacy in 1st era. I renamed it "Emissaries" (or maybe "Messengers"?) - now it only gives embassies, ROPs and alliances. 2nd era tech "Politics" which comes after Feudalism, gives comm. trading and MMPs. I'm not really sure if the names are proper.
EDIT: now I see I actually used the name "Diplomacy" instead of "Politics" for the 2nd tech, but I'm still unsure.

Another thing: as it is I think that the spells are too weak. Playing as the wood elves, e g, it's better to use archers than spells, even though the spells have attack 8 and the archers just three. The spells can only take off one or two hit points from a unit, and can't (obviously) retreat. I would probably prefer archers if they cost the same, as it is now the spells just don't cut it IMO.

I'll think about it. I'm sure mages should be better, maybe spells too. Gaseous Clouds saved my butt few times, when I was charged with several dragons while having none of my own. But I wasn't really using the weaker spells.

 

[tjedge1]

I'm stilling having trouble downloading the 1.1 C3C patch.

It tries to download and then gives me a message that says:

"File download of [WH-Update_1_1.zip] was not completed successfully
Server has internal error"

That's the complete message and I wondered if that means I have to wait till the beginning of the month to get it.

 

[eventhorizon]

try another mirror...
civfanatics, the official atary-site, apolyton... one of them is bound to work!
but i think you're in the wrong thread

 

[GIDustin]

embryodead: You got atari to host your mod? wow.



- GIDustin

 

[embryodead]

@eventhorizon
it is the right thread... he meant WH-Mod 1.1 patch for C3C...
@tjedge1
It's on GIDustin's civ3files server now and there's no bandwidth limit - I just did a full download without any problems. You can try again, if it fails, it might be something on your side.

 

[tjedge1]

That bites.
I tried to re-download everything and everything else downloaded fine. Just that one patch won't download for me. If it's on my end, that sucks. I don't know how to fix a server error. I've never had this problem on my end before. Oh well. I geuss I won't play this mod.
Maybe 2.0 will be nicer to me. I love the PTW version anyway.
Note: I was able to download the 1.1 fix as well, but not the patch. I geuss it has to be on my end somewhere, since I don't see anyone else with this problem.

 

[ChaosLord]

Ah, didn't realize airports allowed air trade. In that case it'll fit better with Chaos then anyway. Meteoric Iron sounds much better though. For Coal maybe you could use "Steam Furnance, or Furnance's", something like that. Since the first use of coal would probably be for warmth. Emissaries/Diplomacy sounds fitting for the other techs too.

Also, I was thinking that if you had time, you could add in Wolves/Raptors as units by themselves. For Wolves a 2/1/2, ignores swamp cost, -1 HP(40-50 Shields). Comes in first era, maybe military training? Then for Raptors a 3/1/3, ignores tundra cost, -1 HP (60 Shields), comes with Creature Control. The reason being is theres alot of wolves/raptors around, with only 3 civs who use them. So if its not too hard to edit the men out of the current animations/units and add them in just by themselves, it'd be nice.

These units would have thier uses for civs with few mounted units like Dwarves and so forth. Also, what about a slaves/natives resource only for evil civs like Halfings are only for good? Would allow you to build a worker that treated all terrain as roads, or something similar. Could also allow Great Wonders like Cauldron of Blood, produces one Priestess of Khaine(renamed Witch Elf) every 5 turns.

One last thing too, do you want any help writing unit/civ descs? I've got my Warhammer rule book/Dark Elf codex around here somewhere, i'd be happy to help to add theme to the mod. Could just get a bunch ready and e-mail them to you or something.

 

[eventhorizon]

Originally posted by embryodead
@eventhorizon
it is the right thread... he meant WH-Mod 1.1 patch for C3C...

oops, sorry,

 

[tjedge1]

I can't seem to find the problem on my computer. Everything else I download works fine. I'll try on 2 other computers this week as soon as I can, then burn it on cd so I can transfer it to my game pc. Wish me luck. I need this file for more than entertainment, as I am stealing some of your graphix for my mod and I need the smallheads/popHeads file for my mod as yours is the best for a fantasy mod so far.

 

[embryodead]

thx tjedge1 I meant something more like your internet connection or something between you and the server. well, i wish you luck
I discussed more popHeads with mrtn some time ago, but I neither could do them or find a way to use them. civ-specific citizens are hard to place in the tech-tree. they have to be at the very end of a branch, or in a part of whole civ-specific branch. this may sound like piece of cake but in practice its killing me.

 

[mrtn]

tjedge1, have you tried clearing your "Temporary Internet Files"?

 

[Gladi]

Bright day. You and all your contributors have made very beatiful mod. And thank you for first victory at Monarch .

I would like to add some comments though I am no modder myself.
1) You were speaking of teleporting. If I remember correctly, you have not mentioned possible use of spells. Have you thought about that? These spell would be simple transports with re-base air mission ability.
Problems of teleport spell are :
a) Cannot be carried by wizards
b) Pernament
c) Very powerfull, unbalancing
In my view some solutions are possible. a) You have already stated that only Chaos will be able to teleport. By giving also giving them Chaos-specific ability to create "Sorcer's Den" (ie Airfield) they would be able to teleport anywhere they wish. Wait a minute I am treating this as problem ? This would make it too powerfull. b,c) Simply make it costly in shield and possibly population too.
2) Isn't there any option to have a unit that can enslave without fight by lethal land bombarding? Some upgrade of Chaos cultists let us say "Disciples of Slaanesh", Ulthuan would be then elf-free as everyone would go to Chaos Wastes. And yes I know it can be over-powering, as can anything be.
3) The Elves of Loren seem really powerfull at the beginning but that is propably intentional.

Have a bright day and same luck in your future creations as you had with this mod.

PS. Please how can you put empty space at the beginning of line ?

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by Gladi
I would like to add some comments though I am no modder myself.
1) You were speaking of teleporting. If I remember correctly, you have not mentioned possible use of spells. Have you thought about that? These spell would be simple transports with re-base air mission ability.
Problems of teleport spell are :
a) Cannot be carried by wizards
b) Pernament
c) Very powerfull, unbalancing
In my view some solutions are possible. a) You have already stated that only Chaos will be able to teleport. By giving also giving them Chaos-specific ability to create "Sorcer's Den" (ie Airfield) they would be able to teleport anywhere they wish. Wait a minute I am treating this as problem ? This would make it too powerfull. b,c) Simply make it costly in shield and possibly population too.

I'm afraid I don't understand. Spells were always able to teleport, from the first version (and they can be carried by wizards, no problem with that). There is difference between "re-base" and "airlift" ability. Re-base doesn't need airports at all - that's how my spells work right now. Without this ability, they would be really useless. Airlift needs airports (here: chaos gates) at both points and a unit with airlift ability checked - that's how demons can be transported in 2.0 (no other units have "airlift" ability). But again, I'm explaining this because I could misunderstood your point.

2) Isn't there any option to have a unit that can enslave without fight by lethal land bombarding? Some upgrade of Chaos cultists let us say "Disciples of Slaanesh", Ulthuan would be then elf-free as everyone would go to Chaos Wastes. And yes I know it can be over-powering, as can anything be.

This is an interesting idea, especially if I could make more demon units ie. daemonettes though as far as I've read, this works a bit different which may be a problem (bombard doesn't have to be lethal - new unit is created just if the bombard is successful, so you get enslaved units while the victim doesn't die...)

EDIT: anyway this is excellent idea ie. for some sort of advanced wizard unit (maybe available only through wonder) that could "create" spells (long rande bombard and spell enslavement; he himself would be immobile so that AI can use spells gained this way).

3) The Elves of Loren seem really powerfull at the beginning but that is propably intentional.

I'm glad you noticed it because there were complains that Elves of Loren are crap without any advanced naval vessels. I like this uniqueness(sp?) - if you play Loren you can easily rule on land, but forget about leaving it to conquer other continents.

PS. Please how can you put empty space at the beginning of line ?

     EDIT: I thought it doesn't work but it works use &_nbsp; (without underscore). You must type it once for each space.

thx for comments

 

[Gladi]

Originally posted by embryodead


I'm afraid I don't understand. Spells were always able to teleport, from the first version (and they can be carried by wizards, no problem with that). There is difference between "re-base" and "airlift" ability. Re-base doesn't need airports at all - that's how my spells work right now. Without this ability, they would be really useless. Airlift needs airports (here: chaos gates) at both points and a unit with airlift ability checked - that's how demons can be transported in 2.0 (no other units have "airlift" ability). But again, I'm explaining this because I could misunderstood your point.

    Actually I think you did misunderstood me . I was speaking about spells carrying units. So that as Chaos you load your Beastmen into spell in Wastes... zap... unload them in your sorcerer's den in Reikland. This idea occured to me because you said you do not like extra commerce. Though you can explain by corrupted nobles using them (Chaos Gates), if you read books it is hard to believe there any other than these( the nobles that is).

Originally posted by embryodead


This is an interesting idea, especially if I could make more demon units ie. daemonettes though as far as I've read, this works a bit different which may be a problem (bombard doesn't have to be lethal - new unit is created just if the bombard is successful, so you get enslaved units while the victim doesn't die...)

EDIT: anyway this is excellent idea ie. for some sort of advanced wizard unit (maybe available only through wonder) that could "create" spells (long rande bombard and spell enslavement; he himself would be immobile so that AI can use spells gained this way).

   I am glad you like it, but if you make daemonettes this mod would then have rating M. But i really think that Chaos proper maps need more. And no offense to all WHFB players here. But as WHFRPG shows power of Chaos lies in coruption. Also shouldn't spells cause some corruption (pollution) by themselves, afterall they are made of Winds of magic and these are raw chaos stuff.
   EDIT: after letting 22 enslavin catapults bombard 22 barbarians, reduce every of them to one point, and capture no unit, several times. I have to say it is possible to enslave only for lethal catapults. Lethal bombardment itself is very powerful so I do not know. Maybe if Hordes are ever split for purpose of scenario. Too bad you cannot make tech tree wehere after researching one technology others are closed to you. That way you could CHOOSE what chaos deity to worship (Slaanesh!Slaanesh!...)

Originally posted by embryodead

I'm glad you noticed it because there were complains that Elves of Loren are crap without any advanced naval vessels. I like this uniqueness(sp?) - if you play Loren you can easily rule on land, but forget about leaving it to conquer other continents.

  Well all elves have (realisticly) very solid start with two move units. But Loren especially in tailored maps which should give them them same expansion rate (due to deer and/or bears) with increased production (forests). I am almost for toning them down. But truth is that aside from very beginning their usability lowers a bit. (but little more strength early means a lot later) And do not ask me for spelling please. English is not my mother language.

Originally posted by embryodead


     EDIT: I thought it doesn't work but it works use &_nbsp; (without underscore). You must type it once for each space.

thx for comments

    Thank you very much, even if took several more minutes to figure it out completely. And your mod is first one that made me think and subsequently post.

   If you have enough of me bashing your mod just tell so.

EDIT: Do you know tale about donkey and carrot? Well civeditor is our carrot