Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.0

[Isembard]

I doubt its really the stealing of the concept that would annoy them, but rather the stealing of the actual game model, which in turn truly does belong to them, intellectual property or not

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by drzoidberg

Ok, never mind stealing the sound. But the modell was stolen in the first place from Games Workshop. Blizzard is not in a position to say much about it. Legally it´s probably GW's intellectual property anyway. For some reason I remember that the original idea for the Gyrocopter is GW's Ian Livingstone.
-Tom

Well, you're right about the moral side, but Blizzard is on the law side. The metal figure sure is copyrighted but it seems that the idea isn't. If it was, GW would already sue Blizzard... you know how paranoid GW is about copyrights (though not mad - fortunately they seem to deal with proper cases, while letting hobbyist have fun, like with game mods).
EDIT: Isembard said it right, it's just their graphics. I'm actually not against graphic conversions from other games for non-commercial purposes, if it doesn't hurt anyone; I just prefer to stay away from the area that may cause trouble.

 

[tjedge1]

I agree with you embryodead. I have argued with Blizzard over their "ideas" but as you said they have the law down and it's on their side. Too bad Wizards of the West Coast and TSR could sue them for ideas if they really wanted too, but then D&D is just a compiling as the games for Blizzard are. There's nothing original about Blizzard games including the story lines which are done in several TSR games in the 80's. Better safe than sorry, though. Greed always makes less fun. Blizzard misses the whole concept completely. I have several friends who are now collecting War Hammer products just because of your mod and a few friends who are playing AD&D for the first time because of my unfinished mod! Oh well, this is a tender spot for me since I am one of those who wants to do mods of their games, but they won't allow. I'll drift back into the shadows now.

 

[drzoidberg]

I have an idea how to make the Dolgans better without giving them a dragon. Since they basicly are just a collection of Conan the Barbarians, why not make there basic warrior unit 2.2.1 and let them keep the cheap price of 10 shields. It would make them very powerfull early on and weak in the end as things get more advanced, just like barbarians ought to have it.

I think this MOD is the best so far there is and I'd love to see it get even better.

 

[drzoidberg]

...and in my mind Chaos in WH have always had an emphasis on corruption rather than muscle power. I would like to see more exclusive Great Wonders that generate a massive amount of culture. In that way you'll really get the feeling of the Chaos-gods corrupting the minds of people, and some wonders should generate chaos cultists automatically. It´s basicaly just fanatical volonteers and not actual combat units, (You need a lot to generate any damage apart from the first few turns) . My impression of the Warhammer world has always been a world where the forces of good have to be constantly vigilant and where corruption of the Chaos-gods will sieze anybody who isn't ready to fight for it. Making Chaos gain the upper hand in peace would shurely give this feeling.

I tried to find somewhere where you can give units the ability to spread disease just as in CTP, (bio-warfare). Is there a way to do it? There should be considering they have the plague disaster. Is there some way to use it maybe? Just thinking about how the followers of Nurgle would fight.
-Tom

 

[embryodead]

Dolgans
In 2.0, barbarians (dolgans, ungols, norsca and chaos) get warrior unit that is 3.2.1 for 10 shields (peasants are 2.2.1), so that's something close to what you proposed. I want, however, keep them with dragons. Before 1.03 patch I think, Dolgans had no dragons and most games were the same - they were doing well, sometimes conquering large part of the continent, but later, they always got eradicated. A faction that is completly doomed doesn't really have sense.

Chaos - Yes, I already wrote that chaos is the most cultural civ in 2.0. However, it is also the most muscle power civ too Chaos is the only civ that gets herdstones, simple cultural improvements available from the beginning (+1 culture/turn, 10 shields). It means that they will expand borders very quickly. With more wonders with +10 culture/turn, chaos is the only faction that has serious chances of cultural victory.

I don't have cultist generating wonder yet. It's a good idea, maybe even for an improvement, though I'm a bit afraid it can flood the map with hundreds of fanatics.

There is no way of spreading disease, pollution etc.

 

[Isembard]

I wonder if the plague system of C3C cannot be perhaps controlled in a way...It could be a good show of that kind of corruption, especially if it could only be stopped by certain buildings already available for Chaos, and then others for the more civilized civs to build so as to ward off such effects, but sadly, those are fully random, altohugh you can control their rate/gravity of appearance...

Small suggestion too, again, as i think more about this : the Dwarves had, in a way similar to the skavens (that is where the species first met...) quite developed systems of underways linking the mportant holds of the World's Edge mountains... Adding a sort of town improvment like this, dwarf only, could be handy, in the same sense as the underway (a sort of airport, if i remember well ?)

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by Isembard
I wonder if the plague system of C3C cannot be perhaps controlled in a way...It could be a good show of that kind of corruption, especially if it could only be stopped by certain buildings already available for Chaos, and then others for the more civilized civs to build so as to ward off such effects, but sadly, those are fully random, altohugh you can control their rate/gravity of appearance...

Well it's pretty random. The only things you can control is animation, randomness and strengh. No building will help, only tech, and the same tech that saves from swamp/jungle plagues. Sure animation could be changed to represent some corruption, but it would be totally random and would destroy the disease immunity feature I gave to Lizardmen. I really prefer the Plague - it was important in Warhammer just as in Middle Ages, destroying much part of human population several times. As I said earlier, chaos will get very high cultural rating, and I think that high possiblity of culture flips and quickly expanding borders will represent corruption well.l

Small suggestion too, again, as i think more about this : the Dwarves had, in a way similar to the skavens (that is where the species first met...) quite developed systems of underways linking the mportant holds of the World's Edge mountains... Adding a sort of town improvment like this, dwarf only, could be handy, in the same sense as the underway (a sort of airport, if i remember well ?)

Oh no, never, sorry I spent last few days arguing that dwarves should not be faster than 1mp, so I'll never let my dwarves move 50 tiles in one turn.

 

[Isembard]

Awww, too bad on that last point Although it wouldn't so much contradict the movement rate of dwarves, being able to move to one city to another in more or less protected areas would explain a quicker movement rate than even in plains and grasslands...I understand the need for dwarves to be slow, though, of course, sicne they are

As for the very quickly exapnding Chaos with culture, that really depends on where they can settle...Since the chaos wastes are mostly warped, and hardly any place for real civ growth (tundra, and, i chose, volcanoes and swamps to give the sense of the corruption of the place), it would already be hard on a world map to make them expand so much...

 

[Mr. Do]

Give the dwarves a railroad-type improvement that can only be built on mountains! I remember that in one of the fantasy scenarios that came with Civ 2 Fantastic World the developer decided to make the railroads into invisible tunnels, which worked pretty craply

Anyhew, I've got to playing a bit more now, here's my constructive thoughts (Saying it's brilliant would be extraneous ), although they're all pretty obvious so maybe you're already considering them:
-Plague consistently occurs at the start of my games, and doesn't add anything to the game in its current state. It may occur later in the game, but having plague at the beginning seems pointless. Maybe it's just me though.
-The Elf warriors at the start are just ugly and do not befit this elegant race. I'd change them to anything different to the gollum-esque graphic currently used. Furthermore, these units are mass-produced by the AI, and elves aren't meant to be one of the more populous species in the game.
-I played as the orc race but there was no basic orc warrior unit... the goblins got to use them, and yes we did have black orcs to make up for it, but it seems a bit of a waste.
-Will the Bretonnian units get more colourful?
-Although the farms and roadwork systems are pretty, I don't think having little houses dotting the screen is all that sensible, especially if the land they're in is populated by peoples that live in caves and little huts...

 

[embryodead]

@Mr. Do
- I wish railroads were more customizable, but at this time, they're useless.
- I know "elf warriors" didn't fit in warhammer. In 2.0 they're out and all elves start with spearmen.
- Orcs & Goblins are in fact one race of greenskins, and I use those abbreviations only for gaming purposes, the real civs are tribes of both goblins and orcs. For more diversity, Ironclaw tribe has access to bigger and meaner orcs - the black orcs (+1 HP).
- With BeBro's 8 new knights released, all civ's knights are more colorful The most "cheesy" knight went to Bretonnia, and they will have access to 4 knightly orders.
- Delete roads.pcx from Wh-mod/Art/Terrain folder if you wish; I like them so I won't scrap them.

 

[Mr. Do]

Yeah I know about railroads, I was just reminescing about an example of a really poor implementation of what Isembard seemed to be looking for. Good to hear about the elves and knights though. I couldn't build any regular orc warriors when I played as the Ironclaws, is this an intentional feature?

And I'll be leaving the roads in, as I do actually like them too

Finally, any idea when 2.0 will be done (Weeks, months, etc.)? I've just seen Gogf's skink units in the unit library thread, and they look very good (Presumably you're using them)!

 

[Drift]

Originally posted by Mr. Do
Gogf's skink units

Not Gogf's, Kinboat's. And unless ED has changed his mind, 2.0 will have a full lizardmen civ using those skinks (and possibly some other skinks - Kinboat did mention doing more of 'em IIRC)

 

[Mr. Do]

Mah mistake...

Now I've got another problem- I went into the editor to look at the settings, then when I exited and went to start another game of the mod, I've got an error saying, "Missing entry in "Scenarios\WH-mod\text\pediaIcons.txt": ICON_BLDG_SS_Thrusters", and I have to exit. Any idea on what I've messed up (considering I didn't save anything)?!

Edit: and just like that, the problem's cleared up. Weird.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by Mr. Do
Yeah I know about railroads, I was just reminescing about an example of a really poor implementation of what Isembard seemed to be looking for. Good to hear about the elves and knights though. I couldn't build any regular orc warriors when I played as the Ironclaws, is this an intentional feature?

Yes. Their orcs are just better than ordinary ones.

Finally, any idea when 2.0 will be done (Weeks, months, etc.)? I've just seen Gogf's skink units in the unit library thread, and they look very good (Presumably you're using them)!

No less than a month. This has to be 100% working and finished mod, so that scenario production can begin. Lizardmen civ is in, and yes, Kinboat said of Saurus units.

As for your problem, this often happens if you open the editor while game is running.

 

[Isembard]

Mr. Do, a way of adapting railrods could be an idea, but it would still be the same effect, mroe or less, as the airport replacement solution Even possibly worse, if dwarf workers can expand those railroads meaning that soldiers can be sent into combat even out of cities...

Btw, i noticed something also : all units available through Awakening are, apart from the Dragon Slayer, well, dragons...Since Dwarfs have yet no flying unit, would it be possible for the dragon slayer to be both anti-aircraft and a normal infantry ? Because it would give some meaning to dragon slaying

 

[embryodead]

There are no air units in game, so anti-aircraft ability won't work at all. Dragons, Griffins and such count as ground units; they just treat all terrain as roads, can pass any terrain, have radar and recon ability.

 

[Isembard]

Aah, ok... I myself never had to fight against dragons, sincei always managed to eradicate my opponents before they reached that level

 

[Kindred72]

I haven't played your mod since the first release. I'm kinda waiting for the inclusion of the slann and Amazons. Any ETA?

 

[embryodead]

ETA is one month, though you can play earlier if you join my beta programme (2 weeks I hope).