Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.1

[Stormrage]

Yeah, it seems Frostyboy has some system issues.. I mean, his computer does

OK, the Dolgans:
- Spearman upgrades to Dom Pedro`s Hun unit

- They get the Centaur in Strategy, or maybe Diplomacy -representing the alliance aspect of their relationship (can`t have good alliances without diplomacy ) Maybe a SW. Thus adding another "Horse" Archer to them...

-As for their stronger units, how bout removing the Wolf Hound from Creature control in the 3. age, and replacing it by... DUN DUN DUNNNN....a big bear ! Groargh I mean, if you can train wolf hounds to go to war, and you can train circuss bears... Give them infantry stats (or how you see fit). Maybe make it more expensive (like a dragon or something), so you don`t overpower the Dolgans. And if they don`t use bears in WH, well...cough, cough...Slann Gunman...cough, cough..
(Gomurr, sorry if this messes up your Bearman of Urslo idea, but Norsca already has a bunch of units).

-Give them Dom Pedro`s Hunter for an early "magic" unit, and move the shaman to a later tech. I said "magic" cause he only uses melee but looks sort of like a shaman with that bear skin on him, so he can be part-time village shaman/warrior. I think the Enkidu warrior you are using for the current shaman doesnt have a magic attack either.

 

[aaglo]

Hi there!
Lots and lots of discussion last weekend here, I see

#DOLGANS
I'm a bit against adding more units to dolgans, since they're supposed to harder to play with after a while. This mod was not inteded to be balanced between all civs - some are weaker, some are stronger. But I guess there's nothing wrong about suggesting units for them - just don't get mad if your wishes won't come true in the "official" version.

#ERRORS
Yep, my bad on the era-splashes. I agree with mrtn, the patch will fix the pediaicons-file. So, if you've changed the pcx-filename, then you'll be experiencing problems in the future too (but not if you just copied the file and renamed the copy).

#FUTURE
@mrtn, would you like to carry on updating this mod - my pc is really giving me a major headache currently...

 

[Gomurr]

-As they stronger units, how bout removing the Wolf Hound from Creature control in the 3. age, and replacing it by... DUN DUN DUNNNN....a big bear ! Groargh I mean, if you can train wolf hounds to go to war, and you can train circuss bears... Give them infantry stats (or how you see fit). Maybe make it more expensive (like a dragon or something), so you don`t overpower the Dolgans. And if they don`t use bears in WH, well...cough, cough...Slann Gunman...cough, cough..
(Gomurr, sorry if this messes up your Bearman of Urslo idea, but Norsca already has a bunch of units).

Pray tell, how does a nomadic tribe of horsemen get a bear to keep up when they're on the move? And can you imagine how much it would take to feed a bear, let alone many bears, when you're having to hunt what few animals are around for your own sustinence? Furthermore, why on earth would they train bears? It's not like they have a standing military - all their 'soldiers' are tribesmen who have a function when not in battle. The mounted horsemen common to the Ungols and Dolgans are common because they are hunters, not elite soldiers. Likewise, that's why they don't have much in the way of infantry - they don't have the luxury of training men to sit around and guard their tribe. Training bears would serve absolutely no purpose to a people like the Dolgans, and so they wouldn't do it even if they could train and feed them. Giving the Dolgans bears for a unit is entirely impractical and unrealistic in any sense of the terms, be it Warhammer or the real world.

And what makes you think that because you can train a dog you can train a bear? My dog, which I have trained, is an Irish wolfhound (thus, I can train a Wolfhound), and yet if I tried to train a bear it would probably just knock my head off with a swipe of its paw.

My advise - let go of the bear. It doesn't belong with the Dolgans. If the Bear belongs anywhere it's either as a Beornwerenar (Werebear) for Norsa or as a Great Bear for Kislev (their army list includes Bear Masters and Great Bears a rare unit).

 

[Stormrage]

I know its not one of my best suggestions... I did say make them more expensive so they can`t have as many of them (as for food, I bet Winnie the Pooh would eat an enemy or two if he got really hungry -, back home its cold enough to preserve food for a long time, and when on the move, they eat after the battle, and also - Dragons don`t eat?)... Plus, I doubt they gallop when they are on the move, resettling-wise, and when they charge, well, bears come as reinforcements, as they catch up while the battle lasts (like horsemen charge by the enemy flanks, shooting arrows, when they pass the enemy turns around to face them, and from behind... Groargh )! Also, I meant they train them while they are still cubs, but not neccesarily, a shaman could do it, creature control tech is in the age of magic, afterall. And the bear could be a unit representing their northern, non-horsepeople part of the Tribes, as they interact with Kislev... EDIT: if you make them as expensive as dragons, A.I. would only build a few bears, and then move on to stronger dragons (when researched), right? What about summoning creatures in WH? Does it happen?
Nevermind, I`m letting go of the Bear...(but feel free to agree with everything I`ve just said, and put him in the mod, I won`t mind )

About being against giving them units so they don`t get overpowered -without the bear, i suggested adding 2 more units in the second age, and they don`t have to be all that powerfull, just to make them a wee-bit stronger and not as bleek and boring as they are now, and 1 unit in the third, a "magic unit", and those are only for support, not so good on attack. So when others get to eras 3 and 4 they can still kick some Dolgan butt, OK?
So it`s
- era 1 - Dom Pedro`s Hunter replaces the Shaman in Magic
- era 2 - Dom Pedro`s Hun for a 2. defensive unit in Feudalism (if Chaos needs them, and mrtn needs them, the the Dolgans need them too). And if he is also added to the Ungols, then I think the Turghaut should be moved to Strategy, maybe? Btw, where is the upgraded elementalist for Ungols? Left out on purpose?
- era 2 - The centaur (horse + archer!) in Diplomacy or Strategy
- era 3 - Shaman becomes a 2.magic unit

I`ve just thought of a major bummer regarding the BP civ... if they were added...what color would they have? They have all been used up
OH, and btw, you are gonna add the skaven, right? They won`t have a decent color either..noooo
And the Ogre Kingdoms too! ;something tells me it will eventually get done, just a hunch

EDIT (yeah...again):
Khemri and Lahmia both use a Horus Knight for their swordsman unit, and the Egyptian Archer for their...well, archer. Aaglo said that he thinks the Nubian archer should be in there too, so I came up with this: Khemri stays as it is, but Lahmia gets the Nubian archer instead of the "white" version, and the Anubis Knight instead of the Horus one (or maybe the other way around).

 

[folketsfiende]

About the weakness of Gnoblars: this perhaps would be best represented by taking away a hitpoint from them, and make them really cheap. This of course if someone gets around to making this unit.

 

[LMR]

I've been playing around with the gnoblar a bit, but i'm having some trouble coz the models i've got tot work with are so small. I might have to do a big gnoblar head 2 get the detail, then shink it and paste it over the snotling body. i've also tried pasting the head of a yoda unit over the top of the snotling body, this mite work too.

As for the gnoblar weakness: i agree with folketsfiende (is it alrite to call you Folk?) about the less hit points. I was thinking that there should be several variations of gnoblars. there should be your regular warrior gnoblar, armed with a spear or dagger, some sort of missile gnoblar, who throws stones or junk or something, and gnoblar trappers, available with assassination and are like other "spy/assassin" units, except weaker of course. they should also be dirt cheap and require no resources.

 

[Stormrage]

Um, Yoda doesn`t have a huge nose... Do you mean its big enough for you to edit (he`s got the ears, needs the nose) or you just wanna put his head?
Like the idea of several variations.
So it would be like, gnoblar warrior (dagger) for starters, gnoblar spearman for 1.defense, gnoblar junk/stone thrower (peltast) for 1.archer, ogre bull for smithing, dunno for magic, dunno for riding, Irongut for Infantry/pikeman, rhino-riders for chivalry (ogres & chivalry = ), several slave units, Yeti`s for creature control? A money producing SW - they are mercenaries afterall. Whaddya think?

 

[Frostyboy]

@Frostyboy: How good is your computer? The WH mod takes a lot of RAM (more than vanilla civ), maybe it's time to upgrade?

Thanks for asking My RAM is only 256 MB and I think it's time for an upgrade. Do you think other processes might intefere with the game. It seems to go right when starting up straight after starting my computer, but after some emulation games it all goes wrong with the animation, although I do not run other programs at the same time

Frosty

 

[Steadboy]

I finished installing the mod and all the patches. It didn't work. So I installed the first one again 2.0 just so I could play the game. Im a big wargamer and i've been waiting a while for this. I'll try to give you some input if I can when I get the latest one going. And do you have a custom map? Do you need help making one?

Peace

 

[mrtn]

Steadboy, did you install the latest patch? Did you install it all in the right folder? They don't go in the same folder, read the install instructions carefully.

@Frostyboy: check what other processes go at the same time as civ, you usally have a bunch of stuff going in the background. It could be that some program doesn't like civ...

@aaglo: Yes, I can do the next patch, whenever we decide what should go in it.
Here's some thoughts on a few things.

*You were probably right about the Skeleton Warrior and upgrading.

*I'd like to have the human spearmen for the undead civs upgrade to skeleton halberdiers instead of skeleton spearmen. I'd also like the skeleton spearmen to be cheaper, say 5 shields, and always available. This way you can turn your conquered 1 spt cities into cannonfodder easier, like you used to when zombies cost 1 shield.

*Tarnhelms Keep should require Monarchy govt, as it's only useful for Monarchies.

 

[LMR]

Ogre shamans are called Butchers and use "Gut Magic". They are armed with huge meat cleavers and meat hooks and stuff, maybe even axes and have a huge cauldron to cook up some nasty stuff

in the tabletop game, the gnoblar warriors are called gnoblar fighters. And don't forget about the Leadbelcher! at gunpowder i think...?

other ogre units can be:
Hunter (ogres that have been exiled from their tribe and hunt prey through the mountains with a pair or sabretusks)
tyrants (the largest and meanest ogres)
slavegiants (big, angry and eager for war)
scraplauncher (a sort of catapult pulled by the furry rhino thing)
maneaters (ogres that have served as mercenaries and have now returned to their tribe)
gorgers (warpstone mutated ogres - pasty white and ferocious)

 

[Stormrage]

I have only 96 or so RAM (!!!), and the game works fine if I turn off the music... Sure, it`s slow, but I like to watch a bit of TV or read a book while A.I. takes its turn

Oh yeah, LR, thats just great, just give them the whole list! And who is gonna make those units?
I was trying to be modest, so I`ve kept quiet about the others, hehe.
Also, I`ve left out the Leadbelcher as his position seemed so obvious.
Maneaters could be a cash producing SW (not unit producing).

Mrtn, I agree with the last two (if my oppinion counts), cant comment on the first one cause I have no idea what are you talking about.

 

[Gomurr]

It's occured to me that the discussion regarding Ogres, gnoblars, the BP and such no longer belongs in this thread, as it's discussing potential creation rather than suggesting changes to the mod as we originally had been doing. So I've started up a new thread here in which I respond to the Ogre and gnoblar ideas that have been floating around here for a while and make a suggestion or two of my own.

mrtn - you might want to limit the Imperial Explorer to monarch as well. In the last game I played I ended up building it as the Orcs, and they really shouldn't have that option. Mt. Arachnos might need to be limited somehow too - it just doesn't seem right for High Elves to be sending giant spiders to war.

 

[Stormrage]

I agree with everything Gomurr just said.... Maybe Spiders can be for Chaos and for Undead govts?

 

[Frostyboy]

I am not sure if it has been up for discussion, but the boar chariot got +2hp instead of 1. Isn't this a bit too good? Just asking since only huge beasts like squiggoths and kroxigors get this bonus.

Regarding the new rescource beasts: Good to get a common resource, but why should for example dark elves and lizardmen be penalized by requiring raptors as both a resource as well as a tech? This is a very high price I think.
The same goes for elephants and chaos/norse/dolgans although these doesn't rely so much on the mammoth unit.

I also think boars could stay as a bonus resource to make swamps a bit more hospitable (I know bears can now be found in swamps but they are still rare).

Also, I think it should be possible to settle in deserts and swamps, since this has been done in human history (perhaps the Warhammer swamps are too unhosspitable?).

Comments?

Frosty

 

[mrtn]

I'm conservative regarding the Imperial Explorer, I'd leave it as is unless aaglo and Mr.Do thinks otherwise.
Mount Arachnos could maybe be set to expire with Monarchy, but I think I'd like to keep that as is too, the only reason I want to change the Tarnhelm Keep is that that's only useful for Monarchs, i e it's a game play change, not a "realism" change.
Frosty, I've thought about the Raptors a bit, but I'm not sure yet. I'd like input here as well.
The Bear is a bonus resource, i e there's no way to increase it's appearance. And I don't want to reintroduce the Boar.
I disagree about deserts and swamps.

Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands.

 

[Frostyboy]

Yes mrt, it's a really good quote from one of the best movies
(after this calculation it takes 4 settlers to build in the swamp )
I also think it OK the way it is, but sometimes it is frustrating not to be able to build on a really suitable spot since it is desert or swamp. Also if you were able to do this you automatically convert the terrain to a useful spot.

Regarding Gomurr and Stormrages Bear discussion, I fancy the idea of introducing the Werebear to Norsca and possibly other nations. It's a great unit, so why not use it in this mod?

 

[Stormrage]

It`s also frustrating when a goblin worker slays your dragon

MWUAHAHAHAH.... my legion of bear-loving zombies is growing in numbers!

Btw, what movie is that?

 

[chocmushroom]

Btw, what movie is that?

Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail, out the year I was born (but i didn't see it that year )

I myself like the beast, mainly due to the fact beastman resource was so bad for chaos if they didn't get it. I do agree that a common resource make's it more fair. Iron used in all metal unit (you don't need anything else special), beast in all beast units.
Maybe there should be a second common beast resource. The 1st for the basic beast units and a second for the advance beast units. So all beast units from 1st 2 eras need common beast, and all from 2nd 2 eras need advanced beast. That would make the game fairer

 

[Steadboy]

Okay, i'm going to try installing the patches again today. I've got a pretty good feel for the game now though.

I play a Vampire Counts Warhammer army so I tried the Sylvanians. I'm not sure what the newest rules are but I can tell you their knights are called wights not black knights. Of course I don't have the newest rule book so if you're sure then disregard this and i'll pick up the new rules ASAP, it's just all my stuff has been in the attic for a couple years. I'll play a couple more times and try to help you a little more where I can.

How are you doing for maps? Do you need help with the map creation?

Peace