Warhammer FB Mod

[solwen]

I'v made a list of civics:

government:

_clans: +1xp to units +1

_hereditary rule: like vanilla monarchy

_imperial representation: (like j period civic)

_Elven monarchy: +2xp to units ,+ 2 artist or scientist per cities ,+10% research ,-2 health per cities
(to represent their centuries long training in both war and craftmanship ,the health malus to represent their low birthrate)

_Dwarven monarchy: +2xp to units ,+2 merchant or scientist per cities,+10%production ,-1 health per cities

Labor:

_Tribalism (like vanilla)

_slavery: units have a chance to "create" a slave unit when they kill or capture an enemy unit

_serfdom: Workers build improvements 50% faster ,+1

_guild system:like caste system ,just a name change

_propagation (or accelerated reproduction): +100% growth for cottages,villages and cities ,+4 health -25% war weariness, +3: in cities
(for orcs,gobs ,skaven and all the races who have a really high birthrate)

Economic:

_barter: like vanilla default eco civics ,just a name change

_protectionism: +10 golds/turn for each ressources trading with another civ,no foreign trade route ,+1 per "right of passage" given to another civ
(for high elves and other civs who do not allow other races to use some sea trade route or the like)

_free market: +1 trade route per city

_organized raids: +100% borders -100% war weariness +4 gold per city , +1 to other civs ,+3 in cities and +2 and +4 gold per city for each civ the player is in war with.
(for civs like ogres,norsca ,orcs and all the civs who spend their time eating the women and raping the cattle of their enemies )

Misc:

_forest adaptation: +2 and +1 health per forest/jungle ,woodsman 2 promotion to all units


About culture i think it shoud be replaced by something else like "land control" or "military control" : Think of an elve falling in awe hearing some nurgling poetry or orc painting ...doesn't really fit the wh background no ?
Building that produce culture should be replaced by something like "border fort" or "long range patrol" to represent the struggle of border expansion/diminution

I know my civic list is far from perfect but what do you think of it ?
Just my 2 cents

 

[Mr_Whisper]

Some thoughts

I think the key is to make the descriptions of the government civics as vague as possible, but have every race be described perfectly by at least one of them.

From what iv'e seen Orcs and Goblins definetly need a more fitting government civic, I dont think Despotism or Absolute Ruler describes the primal nature of their existance and how easily leadership can change. Maybe something like Survival of the Biggest or Barbariasm, that basically means that the largest person in a group rules and its a food chain down to the smallest runt. This could work nicely with Beastmen and Ogres as their preferred civic as well, and could perhaps be the starting government for all races in a random map game. It seems fitting that all other races would evolve into the type of government they prefer while orcs stayed at a rudimentary leadership level.

Monarchy is pretty essential for a few races, Dwarves, Elves, (Brettonia?) etc. need it and its fairly realistic that any other race could become a monarchy as well.

Can Imperial representation be made a little more vague? It sounds like its made specifically just for the Empire. Perhaps City-States, so it could be used to descibe Tilea as well, and if any other race switches to it then it wont seem as odd.

Can someone tell me how the Skaven government works, the various lairs they have under each city tempts me to place them in the city-state category as well, although I recall something about having a Seer council in Skaveblight. Maybe an Elder Council civic for them, are there any other races this would also describe, Dark Elves / Lizardmen?

Absolute Ruler nicely describes the more evil and sinister races like Tomb King, vampire Count, Lizardmen or Dark Elves with their Witchking.

I'm not familiar with Wood Elves, are they a monarchy?

Probably the biggest oddity would be Chaos, because there is no line between religion and government, they are basically ruled by their gods. Four different powers constantly battling each other and the rest of the world through magical corruption and champions...how do you decibe that in one or two words?

Absolute Ruler doesnt seem to fit Chaos very well. Perhaps they could be lumped with Skaven for a Chaos Worhsip government, although this is moving into the realm of the religion civics. I think the interesting aspect of Archaon is he was picked specifically by the gods to be the ruler of chaos, perhaps a civic like Chosen of the Gods or God Champion could descibe this action nicely. I'm trying to word it such a way that it makes sense for Chaos, but could also work for other races at a pinch. Selecting this civic should have some pretty substantial repercussions.

I have no idea about Cathay, Nipponese etc., pobably monarchy or Absolute Ruler?

 

[Duke van Frost]

I´ll be away for business the next two days, so i thought i´ll upload this for you.

Just in case you want to provide us with a new Beta JP

It´s the updated resources:



the files for this:

View attachment 122367


The only two problems I came across both have to do with "barley". For one even if the Tooltip and Civilopedia say that it gives a bonus to health - it doesn´t (take a look at the city screen).
Second it seems to be not tradeable at the moment, but I didn´t test this deeply.

Oh, and the bug i reported about the messed up icons - well it turned out it was that way because i played around to much with the Gamefont.tga files.
So forget about it.

 

[woodelf]

Those are awesome resource icons or buttons or whatever they are.

 

[seZereth]

I dont know too much about the warhammer world, but what Mr_whisper said sounds good! And about Chaos, i would like to have them as barbarian only until we get a real good system to implement them.

cant tell more about the whole civics systems, will have to play a new version to see how it feels. Cant wait for a new Interface optic, that will improve atmosphere much! Wont come to play for some time i think, and i want to have my units in, so i will do some ancient units (well, ancient is like Roman Empire time in real world) and age of magic ind, estalia and araby core units next (they can be used in other mods too, so it isnt wasted work).


Btw, J, about the magic items thing, i dont find a way to get the background transperant, what should i do other than this? Black? or... Maybe black with a Frame?! dont know. how long is it until you implement it?

 

[Rabbit, White]

Have you guys seen this yet, looks interesting.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Btw, J, about the magic items thing, i dont find a way to get the background transperant, what should i do other than this? Black? or... Maybe black with a Frame?! dont know. how long is it until you implement it?

Or we use cardbord counters

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162610


Edit: thx rabbit nice pics there, some of them are already buttons in my corner, but I got them from elswhere. Hope they'll use nifs for the characters there!

 

[seZereth]

While working for the Napoleonic Wars mod, an idea came to me about how to implement rare, special and core units.

Basicaly their a resource called 'rare' which every city has, and which all rare units need. Every turn and every time a unit is built, the game checks the percentage of units that are rare, and if this equalls the maximum amount of rare units allowed, then it deletes the 'rare' resource from all cities. The same thing could be done with a special building instead of a resource.

What do you think?

Sounds nice!
if AI can handle it, then i would go for something like that, perhaps another name instead of rare

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Awesome! I'd prefer the special building. You could call it simply breeding pit or something like that

Edit: for units other than monsters we could put in differently named buildings with the same effect.

 

[J_Period]

While working for the Napoleonic Wars mod, an idea came to me about how to implement rare, special and core units.

Basicaly their a resource called 'rare' which every city has, and which all rare units need. Every turn and every time a unit is built, the game checks the percentage of units that are rare, and if this equalls the maximum amount of rare units allowed, then it deletes the 'rare' resource from all cities. The same thing could be done with a special building instead of a resource.

What do you think?

I like it! Though instead of percentage, maybe make it an absolute number, so it is easier for the player to know how many he can make. Would it be possible to display the number of rare and special units made and how many he can make? (like in the upper right corner, it could display special 4/12, rare 6/6)

Also, could you link it to city size? like, cities under pop 5 get 1 rare and 2 special units, cities pop 6-10 get 2 rare and 4 special units, etc? (1 rare/5, 2 special/5 or else another proportion if that turns out imbalanced)

Also, what about buildings that change this proportion? Like a palace could allow you to build 1 extra rare and 2 extra special units or something.

@seZereth black B.G. is fine

I also like Mr Whisper's thoughts- good point about the generallity.

Wood elves are a monarchy, but their rulers are immortal avatars of their gods (they have had the same rulers since almost the beginning- finally a race that Civ's leader system really works for! )

Chaos, it is true, really has no ruler or government unless a strong leader arizes and leads the four factions in an invasion. It's not really feasable to have 4 seperate factions represent Chaos (5 if you include beastmen, 6 if you include norse) b/c of the limit of 18 civs/map. If this was just a scenerio/map, I would probably just have them be barbarian and every once in a while give them a ton of units to invade with, but my goal is a total conversion, where you really can play smaller games too.

Actually, come to think of it, what about just having chaos be barbarian? It really reflects how the world works-there is no alliance with Chaos. To prevent their elimination early, it might be possible to replace polar ice caps with "Chaos Wastes" terrain that you can't build on, but can move across. That way Chaos barbarians are constantly generated up there. Also, the best units (IMO) of Chaos, the Deamons, will be buildable by any faction with the Chaos Religion. In addition there are the random spawnings mentioned a while back. This mod I think will be a have a lot more barbarians/wild creatures running around, I think accuratly reflecting the WH world.

Also, with the random spawning mentioned before (a quick recap for those who don't remember: basically, barbarian chaos units would spawn inside a player's borders randomly, with greater chance if they had more of the warpstone resource and if they were followers of the Chaos religion or if the Chaos religion had spread more throughout their civ) What about, in addition to those spawnings, there is a chance of random "mutations" for units in the civs that have Chaos as their main religion? Sometimes good, like an extra arm (+1 FS chance) or Wings (ignore terrain) or even transforming the unit into a deamon (a different one depending on the Era). Also sometimes bad mutations, like a withered arm (-1 FS) or sometimes it destroys the unit and turns them into a barbarian Chaos Spawn? (4 different types depending on era) Also, greater chance of mutation and greater chance of spawn/deamon depending on the Unit's level, since they are attracting their God's attention.

Anyone's opinion?

 

[Ploeperpengel]

I like it! Though instead of percentage, maybe make it an absolute number, so it is easier for the player to know how many he can make. Would it be possible to display the number of rare and special units made and how many he can make? (like in the upper right corner, it could display special 4/12, rare 6/6)

Also, could you link it to city size? like, cities under pop 5 get 1 rare and 2 special units, cities pop 6-10 get 2 rare and 4 special units, etc? (1 rare/5, 2 special/5 or else another proportion if that turns out imbalanced)

Also, what about buildings that change this proportion? Like a palace could allow you to build 1 extra rare and 2 extra special units or something.

You seem to relate the amount of special units buildable to citysize only now. Does this and absolute numbers reflect the WH armypoints system, which is the idea with the percentage calc, too?
To know how much units are buildable would be best to show this in the militaryadvisor, this could give the results of the percentage calculation quite easily I guess.

I also like Mr Whisper's thoughts- good point about the generallity.

Me too.

Chaos, it is true, really has no ruler or government unless a strong leader arizes and leads the four factions in an invasion. It's not really feasable to have 4 seperate factions represent Chaos (5 if you include beastmen, 6 if you include norse) b/c of the limit of 18 civs/map. If this was just a scenerio/map, I would probably just have them be barbarian and every once in a while give them a ton of units to invade with, but my goal is a total conversion, where you really can play smaller games too.

Actually, come to think of it, what about just having chaos be barbarian? It really reflects how the world works-there is no alliance with Chaos. To prevent their elimination early, it might be possible to replace polar ice caps with "Chaos Wastes" terrain that you can't build on, but can move across. That way Chaos barbarians are constantly generated up there. Also, the best units (IMO) of Chaos, the Deamons, will be buildable by any faction with the Chaos Religion. In addition there are the random spawnings mentioned a while back. This mod I think will be a have a lot more barbarians/wild creatures running around, I think accuratly reflecting the WH world.

Also, with the random spawning mentioned before (a quick recap for those who don't remember: basically, barbarian chaos units would spawn inside a player's borders randomly, with greater chance if they had more of the warpstone resource and if they were followers of the Chaos religion or if the Chaos religion had spread more throughout their civ) What about, in addition to those spawnings, there is a chance of random "mutations" for units in the civs that have Chaos as their main religion? Sometimes good, like an extra arm (+1 FS chance) or Wings (ignore terrain) or even transforming the unit into a deamon (a different one depending on the Era). Also sometimes bad mutations, like a withered arm (-1 FS) or sometimes it destroys the unit and turns them into a barbarian Chaos Spawn? (4 different types depending on era) Also, greater chance of mutation and greater chance of spawn/deamon depending on the Unit's level, since they are attracting their God's attention.

Anyone's opinion?

I like that ideas. We could include Leaders like Archaon as Hero unit later in the game buildable by civ with chaosreligion. Thinking about that and the lopez plan on a regicide mod I suppose we could develope much more of that in the future. With SDK release we maybe could include Leaderchanges. Given that I have the idea: Civ with chaos religion builds Archaon world unit -> becomes chaosunited civ with Leader represented as unit, also all! chaos units buildable instead of normal ones, is at war imediately with everyone else but at peace with babarian and of course loosing game if Archaon gets killed. Would like that scene

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Hm, didn't think of that. since we are working on buildings maybe we should just include some as general prereqs for different units then. You could as well go with the recource idea in this case maybe related to an eventmanager notification, something like "new breed can be trained" or else.

 

[seZereth]

yea, j, that Chaos Thing is what i thought of and mentioned some time ago!!! I think it is the best way to implement it.
That Mutation thing is a great idea!
BTW, i think when the mod is grown enough, the posiblility and fun of making scenarios will be enourmous! So then we can have a special scenario with the rival chaos religions battling for domionance or you leading archaon against everyone and so on...

Oh well and cause i have to pay great attention to your Army list system, i was wondering if we shouldnt change it appropraite to the units given in the warhammer system (on gws site under the army list), so we have some more unique style each civ plays instead of having almost every civ structured by the same army list with special units here and there (well that is easier to balance i know, but i think there will be enough playtesters as the mod developes ). and by that i wanted to know if i could freelance (somewhere in the future) around with nippon or cathay, ind estalia or araby... (well nothing special until now, but as i thought they arent worked out by gw, we could implement our ideas here, but well just a thought and i wil have to test the mod to get back to the feeling how civ actually plays )
Remember: this is just a feeling, i didnt play a longtime and didnt test beta 0.5 perhaps your army list thing is good enough and i dont have good knowledge of all those civ combat system things and so on... perhaps it will be enough to give each civ something like more special/rare units or upgrate possibilities or personal mercenaries.

What u think?!

 

[gmanne]

About the rare and special unit thing.
Making it link to city size is possible, but i think that its the total population of the whole empire that should count. If you think about it it makes sence, if you have a large population there are going to be a lot of (potential) elite fighters.

This idea also conforms to standard 'Campaign' play for table-top. Each win gives you new territory, new territory = more things. This could be additional special/rare troops, magic items or special rule variations. While not fully adaptable to cIV, it would be nice to see a similar system implemented, at least for rare/special troops. Be interesting to see in practice though - vanilla game punishes you for expanding, this system would encourage it. Choices, choices choices. I am sure Sid would approve.

 

[J_Period]

Well, what I did for the unit lists is try and find as many common units for all of the races as possible (went through the books and said "most of the races have a light knight a heavy knight, a royal guard, etc) Some races this works for better than others. If they don't have anything that is appropriate, they get something as similar in function as possible, though not always. The Dwarves for example, about half of their units are completly different (all of the units I have NONE for)
I'm hoping eventually to have each race/civ have all unique units, with all unique stats, they all just fit into a broad category. Plus every unit that is available to the army list is available to the races. Does this make sense?

Lord Olleus: Could you include a python script that makes it so the first time a Civ promotes a unit to level 4 or greater, they discover a specific tech (mythology). Mythology is the tech that founds Sigmaritism (Sigmariteism? Sigmarism? What is it lol?). So I think this makes sense, they make a god out of their first great hero. I want it to be promotes to level 4 or higher, so they can't just hire a mercenary of level 4

I wonder if it would be an interesting idea to do something like this for some of the other religions? The first to mine gold founds the dwarf religion, for example...Any opinions?

 

[J_Period]

I agree with gmanne, actually that's what I was thinking about (the campaign game) Also, Ploe, in the newest version of WH, it isn't % spent on heroes, core, and War Machines, you get a variable number of Core, Rare, and Special troops, and Lords and Heroes, depending on pv of the army.

 

[J_Period]

Hey, unitmakers, heres a (mostly) complete picture gallery of the Ships of the Warhammer world from Man O War, provided by Solwen. Still missing some Chaos Dwarf Ships, but I think I have an old White Dward around somewhere with the pictures. I'll scan and upload if I find it.
Just if you get bored with making traditional troops...We'll need all of them eventually.
The link will be up for only one week, since it's YouSendIt, so DL now and save the pictures. (after that you can email me and I'll send you a copy)
http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1ZTPSXMS8H7G20XXNZ54FNWL79

Here's a couple of pics of my favorite ships the Lizardman ships...I'm not sure if I believe solwen when he says that they are real...

 

[Mr_Whisper]

If you make Chaos a barbarian phenomenon, with the option for governments to turn to its sway, then you may want to have a Hung or general indigenous civilization added to the race list. They would be really easy to do, just some semi-naked swordsman and lots of horsemen, most of which ar probably already in the game and iv'e seen a variety of models in the Units forum, although you may need a few more Unique Units in there. They weren't born chaotic, its the powers flowing in the Northern Wastes that corrupted them, so using Chaos as a Religion and Civic gives them the choice to become chaotic.

They would obivoulsy have a preference for anything chaos related, and perhaps could be given a technology to start with that gets them closer to Chaos then any other race right from the start, thus encouraging the AI or player to head in that direction. Perhaps if the Chaos Religion had its own line on the Technology that was difficult to research, especially at the start of the game (discouraging every civilization from trying to get it), then the Hung or whatever would have a huge head sup in that department (is this too biased?). So right from the start the AI could be gunning for the chaos religion, duplicating the fact that their people are the main peoples of Chaos, but who knows, maybe in a random game you play against them they may change their ways and become a peace loving race.

It will be cool though during the early part of a game when you get the message "The Hung have been corrupted (founded) by Chaos Magic", sort of following Warhammer fluff. Every other race has the potential to follow in their footsteps and become chaotic, but just as likely they would choose their own religions.

 

[solwen]

About the lizardmen ships i think they published the rules in some old citadel journal or some fanzine about man'o'war .No model has been built by gw (i'v got those pics from a man'o'war fanatic website) .But they look cool no ?

 

[Ploeperpengel]

I agree with gmanne, actually that's what I was thinking about (the campaign game) Also, Ploe, in the newest version of WH, it isn't % spent on heroes, core, and War Machines, you get a variable number of Core, Rare, and Special troops, and Lords and Heroes, depending on pv of the army.

Nothing stays as it is. The worlds changing too fast for me