Warhammer FB Mod

[J_Period]

well it balances things out a bit, where goblin warlords cost 50 points, less than a chaos knight (66 pts in my old rulebook), but had better stats overall, so in a 1000 pt army you could get 10 goblin warlords (500pts or 50%, the max allowed on characters)...10 generals seems excessive, neh?

Plus there was the addition of dogs of war, who just didn't fit in to that well at all. The only thing I really miss is allies...my High Elves need a hellblaster volley gun...

 

[Ploeperpengel]

well it balances things out a bit, where goblin warlords cost 50 points, less than a chaos knight (66 pts in my old rulebook), but had better stats overall, so in a 1000 pt army you could get 10 goblin warlords (500pts or 50%, the max allowed on characters)...10 generals seems excessive, neh?

Plus there was the addition of dogs of war, who just didn't fit in to that well at all. The only thing I really miss is allies...my High Elves need a hellblaster volley gun...

10 generals? wasn't possible in the armybook I had, but it's true the greens were a lot cheaper than others and nearly as good, probably didn't loose a single battle cause of this(I used Black orcs excessivly).

Hellblaster for Highelves?! You're weird!

 

[gmanne]

The only thing I really miss is allies...my High Elves need a hellblaster volley gun...

And my Empire army needs a dragon. Life is terribly unfair.

 

[J_Period]

Well I just looked at my old book, and I realized I wasn't exactly following the rules when I did that...of course back then we didn't follow all of the rules (no psychology, cuz it was too complicated) Some games just shouldn't be played by 9 year olds...

 

[seZereth]

Thought about things i said, and yea J, you are right. when i looked at the dwarves and tilea i noticed, that you did a good thing with the army list. cause we can vary with stats and bonus/malus for every civs` militia swordsman for example.
But i have another idea => what about this:

Almost every Unitclass can upgrade or promote one unit regiment of that class (perhaps one that reaches a certain amount of exp. first) to a Champion Regiment, so it would be the normal Regiment with a single unique Leader (just a semi hero with a or some special things, different for every unitclass) and perhaps if it dies, you wont have the chance to get another one like this?! That way we could give the civs another detail which adds much flavour and character, or?! And i could be much more creative and reskin, change weapons, add character stuff to each civs champions. and we would give people a reason to care for some of their core troops.

what do u think about that way?!

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Yes, like that, maybe change the standardbearer promotion to a similar upgrade? we could attach flagpoles for all kinds of units too. As soon we have meshes for this. Upgraderange would be normal core troops->standardbearer->elite
I'm not really happy with standardbearer as promotion cause it won't change optics. The possibility to have a standardbearer should apply to all. The champ just for one.

 

[lumpthing]

That fits for some but not chaos, and in the mod it will be more variable, i.e. it will be possible for highelves to be turned chaotic, this is also because we have some civs in which aren't defined by GW very well, i.e. Cathay, Nippon etc., which would be excluded from religions then. So what we're gonna do is make the religions more like real ones and as such we'll need to balance them. Help on this would be appreciated. Any ideas you have post in our thread.

original thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3897414#post3897414

So Chaos could found the worship of Elven gods and the High Elves could found the worship of Orc and Goblin gods? Isn't that going to spoil the setting rather a lot? How can you have the civ Chaos without the religion Chaos? Chaos worship is it's whole raison d'etre.

 

[J_Period]

@lumpthing: I've been banging my head against the wall about the same thing. The best idea I've had so far (mentioned earlier) is that instead of naming the religions "Orc Gods" or "Dwarf Gods", name them "Gods of Waaa'gh" and "Ancestor Gods", etc... (not race specific names) and change the wording for the founding of a religion to "The ______ have revealed themselves to the _______" So it would be "The Ancestor Gods have revealed themselves to the Tileans"

Basically it means that in "This History" the Tileans attracted the attention of the normally Dwarven Gods before the Dwarves did.

Chaos also is probably going to be a barbarian civ, most reflecting whjat they are in the world (also been discussed) so they can't found a religion.

It's Civilization, not Total War, it's not realistic~it's a 'what if' thing. The Americans didn't found Judaism

 

[Nightravn]

Hey JP any progress on that Map?

 

[Rando]

On the topic of religion, I am wondering if one possibility might be to make some "race specific" religions that are always founded by the race as well as some "general" relgions that can be founded by anybody? So, elves, orcs, dwarves will always be first to found their relgions. However, they, and other races, may go on to research, found, and convert to other religions as well, ancestor relgion, chaos religion, etc. So basically there would be two types of religions - some guaranteed to particular races and some up for grabs by all. Not all that familiar with Warhammer religions, so don't know if that would work well with the setting or not. Just a thought.

 

[Tharidos]

Maybe i'm wrong.......but is chaos not build on there four gods?
True that they have there own units in games as well........but still beastman you find in all four of them. Maybe each will lead to there own special units as well? Even warhammer the rules are flexible and can be adept. so why not in this way.

 

[lumpthing]

That sounds like a good idea J Period. The wording of the religions definitely needs changing (as well as the religion civics IMHO). You could also change the religion names to Cult of the Waaa'gh, Ancestor Worship or Worship of the Old Ones. Might be too lengthy though. For racial pantheons you could make them less race-specific by narrowing them down to the cults of major dieties: e.g. replace Human Gods with Cult of Sigmar and Cult of the Lady of the Lake.

The difference between real-world civ and and the warhammer civs is that real-world cultures aren't usually so tied to a particular religion that they don't make much sense without that religion while the religions themselves cannot be divided into good, evil and neutral. In the Warhammer world, the whole culture, appearance and armies of the various civs are hugely shaped by whether or not they worship chaotic or good/neutral pantheons. Even with the Hordes of Chaos turned into barbarians, what about the Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarves?

About the Chaos as barbarians suggestion: I think that suits the whole atmosphere of the warhammer world, especially with the poles as chaos wastes. Note that the barbarian AI is worse than the normal civ AI. I believe this can be easily changed, and that with normal AI, the barbarian civ becomes immensely powerful.

 

[lumpthing]

One radical solution would be to have religion represented in a set of civics: e.g. Chaos Worship, Worship of Old World Pantheon, Old One Worship and Cult of the W'aargh. Each civ leader would have the appropriate religion as their favourite civic and would hate civs without their preferred civic. The religion-civic would affect what units the civ could build - i.e. Chaos-worshipping civs could build daemons.

The religion game mechanism could then be used to represent something else. For example, you could have religion represent races present in a city. Each civ would start out with the appropriate race, which would automatically spread to newly-founded cities. If another race spreads to one of your cities, or you capture another race's city, you'd be able to build new race-specific units.

I'm aware that's proabably too radical a change to the game to be practical though

 

[Mr_Whisper]

J_Period:

Yeah it is a little frustrating to get right, I assumed that you were setting the game up up so that any race could potentially choose any religion, basically making full use of the freedom that Civ IV offers and make use of how religion effects other cities, but it would be preferable for races to select their proper religion in-game without it having to be set in stone.

One idea to compensate for this and encourage each race to choose their 'proper' religion is to give them a starting tech that puts them ahead of everyone else to their normal religion. Before being able to found "Gods of Waaa'gh", there could be a prerequisite "Waaag'h Worship" tech that must be researched first, something that Orcs and Goblins would automatically start with. You have to worship the god before they deem you worthy to be considered. Anyone trying to research Waagh will have to go through an extra 10+ turns of research to get to it, giving Orcs a huge head start and making them more likely to get to it first.

Theres still the freedom for any race to choose any religion, and the chance for random factors. Potentially the Orcs could start the game by concentrating on researching weapons first, while another race could spend that time researching Waagh, possibly even founding it before they do. I would think this is unlikely though as each race would be more tempted to get to the religion that they are closest to anyway.

The downside to this is that the tech tree page would look a little cluttered with 7 seperate lines needed for all the religions, but I think it worth it.

*edit* What I have written above is pretty similiar to Rando's idea, i'm not sure what neutral religions would be though.

 

[J_Period]

Hey JP any progress on that Map?

It's uploaded a few pages back: here

@Rando: That might be more realistic, but it is way imbalanced (BTW Ancestor Gods=Dwarf Gods)

@Tharidos: Way ahead of ya. Each religion has 4 gods (or 4 aspects) that allows those who have the correct religious buildings to build unique units for each god (like deamons for the chaos gods, witchunters, warrior-priests and sisters of sigmar for sigmar, etc...)

@Lumpthing: Dark Elves have elven gods as well as chaos gods (though instead of Asuryan, they have Khaine as their main god) The great thing about the system is that I can change religious units between races, so instead of Temples of Asyuran and Phoenix guards, Dark Elves get Temples of Khaine and Witch Elves/Assasains.
Chaos Dwarves I don't know enough about to say, but I believe I read their God was an exiled Chaos God, so whenever we do them they might replace Khorne or Tzeentch with Haptshep (or however you spell it)

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Would still be the option making religions civspecific like in the EE3 mod, that wouldn't be complicated at all and religions are open to anyone, but just to found it is restricted to specific civs. And by the way in the scenario of that mod the religions are spreading mostly accurate like they did in history.


@JP if you can manage:
We definitly need more armylists: for the other human civs as well as for undead and woodelves which will be the easiest to do for us with the resources we have now.

@Tharidos: we absolutely need more bits(the sooner the better, cause we get stuck with nif editing only without them): better helmets!(Bretonia and Highelves mostly now, and a Samuraihelmet to make SZ happy), orcheads!, dwarven beards!, maybe elfheads too but we'll try skinning them, well and whatever else you can think of you find in GW Store.

 

[J_Period]

I've added the Wood Elves, will finish up Cathay, Nippon, and Araby when I get back from work tonight.

 

[Duke van Frost]

I've added the Wood Elves

finally a "real fantasy" civ you can choose to play - Hurray!

 

[Tharidos]

There is still a forgotten god of chaos named Mamal...........can try to find some info . i have white dwarfs from 10 or more years olds..........have to take a look in my archives.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Breton Men-at-Arms Officer posted, please give me feedback if I should change something. It still needs a small banner on the head but don't have bits for that now.

@JP good job, know you're pretty occupied thx